The one tuner you wished you had but don't?

[Lefty]

Just wanting to get a pulse on what people lust after in the way of tuners that they have not yet aquired....

Me, I want a chance to play with a Sanusi TU-X1. I've tried to get Grumpy to 'rent' me his, but he wisely sees through my evil ways :smoke:

So what do others lust for in the way of Tuners?

Lefty

[retrokeeper]

I was looking thru my Kenwood audio literature and found the KT-917 Fm Stereo Tuner...that thing looks fabulous...and probably sounded that way too!!The description of the tuner reads...."The finest FM Tuner in the world as recognized by Japanese audiophiles who awarded it the Grand Prix at the Tokyo Audio Fair".This was from one of my Kenwood brochures from 1979.Sure would like to find this tuner in a thrift store somewhere,I'm sure if you found it on Ebay it would fetch a princeley sum!! :naughty: :scratch2: Rob

[warnerwhf]

Interesting, I also would like a Kenwood Kt 917.

[billinkansas]

Fisher FM 1000 TOTL tube tuner. Not ready to give my left nut just yet for one.

[Brian]

I've owned at 1 time or another pretty much all of the more highly considered tuners except a Sequerra that I only had the use of (Day 1) and the Sony ST-5000/5000F so it would be that 1 for me, the STC-7000 tuner/preamp and a REL Precedent though in the back of my mind I do think I owned one as a kid; about the time I joined Boy Scouts but won't swear to it. Of all I've owned and gotten rid of the only 1s I'd like to reacquire would be the Fisher TFM-1000, Scott 4310, and Marantz 20 (not 20b).

[L'wood]

First off I couldn't lust for them until I've heard them!! I'm about halfway through all of them I want to hear and experience, but the halfway I've gone has been the bottom end of good tuners-now for the top end!

L'wood

[timoteus]

I lust after a Fisher FM-1000, but would easily settle for a Scott 310E or even a REL Precedent because of it's cool looks and unique design.

I'm all set with SS tuners unless I could have a German exotic like the Wieschhoff designed Klein & Hummel FM 2002 or Restek FM 3003, or the uber expensive Burmester 978.

[ProAc_Fan]

Tandberg 3011A. Don't ask me why I just dig that tuner.


Mike

[bolly]

with a scope tube, of course! :D

[bob adams]

If we're talking dream tuners after I won the Lotto then. :banana:
Sansui TU-X1
Kenwood L-02T
something Accuphase
Marantz 2130

Now we're talking I luck into $700 to $1000 (fat chance of that.....) :no:
Philips AH 673 or AH 6731
Sansui TU-919
Yamaha CT-7000 in mint black
and maybe this Fisher FM-1000 that timoteus has been talking about. He's got me thinking tube sound. :scratch2:


And for day-in-day-out practical wishing......
a Yamaha T-85 hooked up to high quality antenna, atop a nice rotator.

[axel]

Toshiba ST-910 in silver,
Wega Lab Zero,
Kenwood L-02T,
Pioneer Exclusive F3,
Yamaha CT-7000 in silver.

but my Denon TU-850 does quite well for the moment. and chances are it'll keep on doing well long after the ICs and electronics in some of the above tuners have gone bust...

edit. but to answer the question properly (the ONE tuner), it would be, argh, difficult, it would be the Exclusive F3.

[OvenMaster]

I "settled" for a Yammi T-80 because all the T-1's, -2's, -7's and -85's were wayyyyyyy over budget.
Tom

[bob adams]

I left out one in the Lotto dream category ....... the Pioneer F-26 !!!!!!!!

[bob adams]

Not a bad thing to have to settle for Ovenmaster.

[bob adams]

Axel
This Pioneer F3 you mention....do you have a picture? Don't think I've ever heard of this one.

[bob adams]

The last REL Precedent that sold on eBay went for $3300. Are you saying this FM-1000 will fetch that much too? Am I going to have to move it up to my Lotto dream list?

[grumpy]

I been curious about the accuphase T-100 but its doubtful I will pay the price of admission.

Theres a couple others id like to try but honestly after getting my X1 the search stopped. :)

[grumpy]

I have owned the FM1000 and it didn't float my boat but then again some of the other top tuners didn't either. For the money stick with the FM-200B and keep a lot of dough in your pocket. Just my opinion.

[mhardy6647]

REL Precedent.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34417

[OvenMaster]

Not a bad thing to have to settle for Ovenmaster.
Considering the shape it was in and what I paid for it? I ain't complaining, no sir! :naughty:
Tom

[axel]

Axel
This Pioneer F3 you mention....do you have a picture? Don't think I've ever heard of this one.

Bob,
check here:
> http://www.niji.or.jp/home/k-nisi/f-3.html

Unlike the other contemporary and later Exclusives, the F3 is a very very rare beast.

[hpsenicka]

I'd be thrilled to step up from my Kenwood KT-8300 to a 600T!

[bob adams]

Axel,
Interesting looking tuner. Looks to be mid to late 60s vintage. Did they ever import it into the states? How many gangs? What are the specs? Inquiring minds want to know. :scratch2:

[Yamaha B-2]

Yamaha CT-7000 in black (rare) or a T-2. Getting close (I hope). :yes:

[axel]

Bob,

7-gangs, 8 LC filters and... use the google language tools for a quickie translation of the rest :yes:

I believe that most of the Exclusive separates, F3 included, were not exported :(

[goldear]

Tuna's that I'd love to get my hands on, but probably will never own include:

Marantz 10B
REL Precident
Sansui TU-X1
Kenwood L-02T
Marantz 2130

However, I've basically stopped looking too. I'm pretty satisfied with my (slightly modified) MR-67, and (currently stock, but probably soon to be modified) Luxman T-117.

[johndoe3]

I have some good and desirable tuners already, but I need a few tuners that I would like to match up to some amps that I have. So, here goes. I would like to find:

Accuphase T-100
Kenwood 600T
Denon T-501 or T-500
Akai AT-2650
JVC JT-V77
Scott 530T

There was a time where I was acquiring tuners at an alarming rate. In most cases, I would like them so much that I would search for the matching amp in order to pair them up. Now, I run away when I see a tuner for sale. That is, unless it matches an amp that I like.

[Filmboydoug]

I want a 310-E. And people in hell want ice water.

[doug s.]

Tandberg 3011A. Don't ask me why I just dig that tuner.


Mike
mike, trust me here - it's certainly got nothing to do w/the way it sounds! :D i recommend you lust after something at least good - i bought a 3011a from a local used equipment shop years ago, & it was not good at all - my (relatively) cheap adcom gft-1a was quieter, more sensitive & sounded better. i was only too happy to take it back & exchange it for a revox b261 - now *that* is a nice tuna. however, even tho the 3011a was checked out by the service dept, it is possible i had a bad one.

there's a plethora of tuna i'd like to sample that i haven't yet, but the list is definitely getting smaller. i have tried a *lot* of tunas! :naughty: the pioneer f26 or f28, scott 310d, nakamichi 430 are a few that come to mind that i'd still like to try. i have a marantz 19 receiver that's being repaired by radio x - i got it cuz i have always wanted to try the marantz 20 tuna, & it resides inside this receiver. :) some folks say the 20/20b is marantz' absolute best tuna, even better than the 10b.

next on my list to try are a denon tu850, still in the box, & these two, on their way from germany:

larsholt
http://w01.my-files.de/av19ov05ff089tt/Oeffentlich/myPhotos/2.jpg/view_2.jpg
http://w01.my-files.de/av19ov05ff089tt/Oeffentlich/myPhotos/larsholt_det_ob.jpg/view_larsholt_det_ob.jpg

philips:
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/groups/g_4268554/Philips/philips+22+ah+105.jpg?bcnYTQDBauV6REFM

i am interested in this philips, as i was so impressed w/the ~$25-$50 ah185 & the more expensive ah6731 i yust sold... the larsholt was yust too cute to pass up. :)

for those interested in trying a top-notch tuna w/o breaking the bank, i suggest the following:

dirt cheap:
philips ah185 - close to as good as it gets sonically, for <$50. not the most sensitive

cheap (usually ~$100 or less):
aiwa 9700
nikko gamma I
jvc fx1100
hitachi ft-8000
technics st-8600

reasonable (usually <$300, sometimes $200):
pioneer f91
sony st-s730es
sony st-a6b
technics st-9030
yamaha t2
sansui tu-517/717/719
hk citation 18
sumo charlie
sumo aurora
mitsubishi da-f20(tho lately, these have pushed >$400)
meridian 204
scott/stromberg-carlson/sherwood/fisher mono tunas w/a good mpx decoder
luxman t-12
accuphase t101
rotel rt2100

i may have missed a couple, & i am sure there are other great ones that i haven't heard...

doug s., so much tuna so little time...

[axel]

doug,

From one owner to another: please register your TU-850 on TVK!
> http://www.thevintageknob.org/registers/registers-main.html

cheers
a

[bob adams]

I'm learning about tuners I never knew existed :banana: !!

Axel
Seven gangs and 8 LC filters? Dayyum! :thmbsp: Do you know anyone in the States with one?

Doug S
The Larsholt is a cool looking little tuner. And you got it out of Germany? Do they cost much?

ReEdger
If I'm not mistaken there is a JVC JT-V77 on eBay right now. BUT I want everyone to understand it's not mine or anyone's I know. :worried: :D

[bordeno]

A 600T in great shape would put me in tuna heaven.

In the meantime I really want a Sony ST-A6B.

[axel]

Bob,
perhaps some top executive at Pioneer ordered one back then but as far as I know, the Exclusive separates remained in Japan...

bordeno,
check the german eBay often (ie. weekely) - ST-A6Bs are not as common as a couple of years back but they still pop up regularily.

[doug s.]

many tunas have lotsa gangs - the sony st-a6b has 7; the technics st-9030 has 8. but that's only part of the story - the sansui's i mentioned - the 717, 719, & the 517 - only have four gangs, & they are excellent.

re: the sony st-a6b's, i got both of mine from germany. but both need work, & were adwertized as being 100%. :worried: one works well enought to know it sounds really nice.

re: the larsholt, it cost me yust under $175, which included shipping, conwersion from dollars into euros, & paypal fee. a friend of mine in germany who also has the tuna bug, has heard it & sez it's really nice sounding, if a bit bright. but, he said the brightness may be due to the system he was listening to - all solid-state, & not his cuppa, even w/other sources. i am looking forward to getting it - i have never heard of it, or ever seen one f/s before - it yust looked so cool!

re: the tu-850, i can register it as soon as i pull it outta the box & get its serial #. :)

doug s.

[doug s.]

here's a nice tuna at a nice price. while these things are strictly so-so stock, (at least mine was), when modded they become an altogether different animal. i had a bill ammons modded kt-7500 that was supurb sounding, if not the last word in ultimate quieting...

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?misctunr&1133485578
http://vgonpic4.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1128301537.jpg

doug s.

[warnerwhf]

That guy on Agon may take 250 for that Kenwood Kt 8300 too. Great deal for a tuner.

[doug s.]

That guy on Agon may take 250 for that Kenwood Kt 8300 too. Great deal for a tuner.
if i was in the market & wanted it, i wouldn't be screwing around w/offers, since these usually sell for close to that when bone-stock & unserviced...

doug s.

[warnerwhf]

A stock Kt 8300 went for 387.50 on Ebay two days ago. You're right, I'd just buy it if I were in the market. I know how good it must sound after having Jim Rivers mod my 7500. Had no idea a tuner could sound so good and if someone would have told me I'd have been quite skeptical. The stock 8300 I have now sounds nowhere near as good as the modded 7500. The 8300 is going to Mike Williams as soon as my turn is up. And a wood cabinet on a 7500 I just paid 65 bucks for is going on the 8300. Hopefully I can get 65 out of just the tuner as one just sold for 102 on Ebay.

[madpioneer]

I believe there was a PIONEER F-28 if I'm wrong then I'll settle for a F-26.
Thats my top dog pick! But my TX-9500 II & TX-9800 capture some great sound from otherwise terrible radio content, morning shows, talk radio :blah: :blah: :blah: :rant: :rant: Some of the local evening true Blues shows are good and the classical stuff sounds good otherwise totally useless!! Damnit!!

[john_w]

I'd like a TU-919 to match my AU-919. The TU-717 matches well enough cosmetically, but the 919 just looks a little more...serious. And it's rated somewhat better. Unfortunately, E-Bay prices have gotten a little high for that one.

[Strawman]

I've always regretted getting rid of my Kenwood KT-7550. Maybe not great, but, very competent in all aspects.

[timoteus]

I been curious about the accuphase T-100 but its doubtful I will pay the price of admission.

Theres a couple others id like to try but honestly after getting my X1 the search stopped. :)

Wow, this last TU-X1 went for $2600 Kronkites.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sansui-TU-X1-Best-Tuner-ever-made-SUPER-MINT-L-K_W0QQitemZ5812914339QQcategoryZ3282QQrdZ1QQcmdZVi ewItem

[doug s.]

Wow, this last TU-X1 went for $2600 Kronkites.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sansui-TU-X1-Best-Tuner-ever-made-SUPER-MINT-L-K_W0QQitemZ5812914339QQcategoryZ3282QQrdZ1QQcmdZVi ewItem
that's $3100usd - yikes. masterviewer always sells top-notch gear in top-notch condition, but still, that's a bit much. a really nice tu-x1 got no bids last month at a starting price of ~1000 euros. mebbe i shoulda taken a chance, to re-sell here in the usa. :scratch2:

doug s.

[hpsenicka]

A stock Kt 8300 went for 387.50 on Ebay two days ago. You're right, I'd just buy it if I were in the market. I know how good it must sound after having Jim Rivers mod my 7500. Had no idea a tuner could sound so good and if someone would have told me I'd have been quite skeptical. The stock 8300 I have now sounds nowhere near as good as the modded 7500. The 8300 is going to Mike Williams as soon as my turn is up. And a wood cabinet on a 7500 I just paid 65 bucks for is going on the 8300. Hopefully I can get 65 out of just the tuner as one just sold for 102 on Ebay.

Wow $387.. that must be getting close to the all-time high for a stock KT-8300..

[EDIT: OK.. so the all-time high was actually around $600... guess I need to pay closer attention!]

I wouldn't expect that you will have any difficulty getting your investment back on the KT-7500.

I for one would be interested in hearing more details about your modded KT-7500, and your plans for the KT-8300... and would encourage you to start a new thread on that topic so you can share your experiences.

[bob adams]

There was an F-26 and an F-28. Both pretty rare but I think the F-26 is the rarest model.

[Negotiableterms]

The only thing left that I really, really want is a Day Sequerra Broadcast Standard, with the panalyzer. I've never seen one for sale, and am beginning to believe I never will.

[Nailer]

SAE Mark Six

[crooner]

I left out one in the Lotto dream category ....... the Pioneer F-26 !!!!!!!!

The same guy who sold me my Technics SA-1000 had a BIN on a F-26 a few days before. Just $350. A bargain IMHO.

As for my dream tuner...It's inside my SX-1980!!!

[rca2000]

I have never seen one, in person, but I thnk you all know what I am talking about. It had a digital readout, and a keypad, and punch-card slot, for memory cards.

[doug s.]

The only thing left that I really, really want is a Day Sequerra Broadcast Standard, with the panalyzer. I've never seen one for sale, and am beginning to believe I never will.

that's different than this one? i have seen a few of these f/s over the past coupla months...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5811214209
http://i5.ebayimg.com/01/i/05/00/b6/bd_1_b.JPG

two f/s on agon right now...

also, sequerra is making new tunas; may wanna check those out.

http://www.daysequerra.com/
http://www.daysequerra.com/index_files/M3-Tuner-900px.jpg

doug s.

[Negotiableterms]

...that's different than this one?... doug s.

Yes, the Broadcast Standard was built in 1998 and sold through 2000. The FM Reference on audiogon is from 1991, and the Model 1 is from 1987 (I think). They all look alike, but the sound of the later models is much, much better than the earlier ones. One of the members here has an FM Studio, which is supposed to be the best sounding, but it doesn't have the panalyzer, and I'm dying to play with one of those! So, I keep on waiting and hoping.

On the other hand, they all pretty much look alike, so you're probably right if you're thinking that I'm being much too picky!

[doug s.]

Yes, the Broadcast Standard was built in 1998 and sold through 2000. The FM Reference on audiogon is from 1991, and the Model 1 is from 1987 (I think). They all look alike, but the sound of the later models is much, much better than the earlier ones. One of the members here has an FM Studio, which is supposed to be the best sounding, but it doesn't have the panalyzer, and I'm dying to play with one of those! So, I keep on waiting and hoping.

On the other hand, they all pretty much look alike, so you're probably right if you're thinking that I'm being much too picky!

sounds like ya should get one of the ones f/s & send it to sequerra for upgrades. then you will likely have what yure after, including best sound from an older sequerra.
http://www.daysequerra.com/index_files/DS%20Signature%20Upgrade%202005.pdf

doug s.

[shelby1420]

Sansui TU 9900 modded and upgraded by Punker x, have had the TU 717/719 and have now the TU 919....... really really want that 9900 to match my amp and pre.....

[bob adams]

What is a panalyzer?

[Lefty]

What is a panalyzer?

It's sort of a spectrum analyzer. horzontal axis is frequency of the received signals and vertical is the signal strength of each signal. As you tune the dial you can see all the stations vertical pips move left or right from the tuners tuned frequency. It might show you that the station you are tuned to is next to a very strong station. It's very cool but not sure it's really a needed feature as the panalyzer lacks a lot of the features and controls of a true spectrum analyzer instrument.

Lefty

[Negotiableterms]

...It's very cool but not sure it's really a needed feature... Lefty

Lefty is completely correct, except for two important points: It's a lot cooler than just "very", and it's absolutely not needed at all. It's only reason for being is that it's incredibly cool.

[john_w]

From daysequerra link:
HD Broadcast Reference Model M3 pricing starts at $ 5,500 US
retail...

M3 Panalyzer Upgrade M3UP $ 2000 12/05

Looks like a brand new one will only set you back around $7500. :jawdrop:

[doug s.]

From daysequerra link:


Looks like a brand new one will only set you back around $7500. :jawdrop:
which is close to what yure gonna pay for the older broadcast standard w/panalyzer, that negotiableterms was talking about. the older sequerra's routinely sell for >$3k. whether it's worth it in sonic terms is certainly open to question. :scratch2: but this ain't the only spendy tunas still out there - m-d has replaced its ~$6k wersion w/one for ~$8.5k!?! while i have never heard the md108, based upon the ft101a that i have heard, & based upon comments from those who i trust, the md108 is routinely beaten by tunas awailable for <$500... and accuphase has yust released its new model, the t1000, supposedly retailing ~$4.5k. but, based upon comments from those who have tried warious accuphase tunas (myself included), these may be worth it. but even still, the extra cost for what is really only a tiny improvement in sound & receprtion can certainly be questioned.

but, logic ain't always at play here. there's no logic for the spendy accuphase t109 i have, that i spent a bunch of $$$ on getting serviced & modded. but, at least i have a lot less into it than the going market rate! :naughty:

doug s.

[john_w]

the extra cost for what is really only a tiny improvement in sound & receprtion can certainly be questioned.

but, logic ain't always at play here. there's no logic for the spendy accuphase t109 i have, that i spent a bunch of $$$ on getting serviced & modded. but, at least i have a lot less into it than the going market rate! :naughty:
doug s.

At least some of those ultra-spendy units have exceptional cool factor, as negotiableterms stated; I completely agree - I'm close to drooling over that baby myself.

Still, I'll have to wait until I win an extra-large Powerball jackpot before putting too much energy into deciding how to justify something like that.

[Negotiableterms]

Doug S makes a great point that by the time you pay on eBay for a 1998 Broadcast Standard, you're not that far away from a brand new one, with an HD tuner in it, and the possibility of adding zones. The price is painful, though. $5500 for the M3, then $2000 for the panalyzer, then $400 for the balanced outputs, then $700 for the HD tuner, and voila: $8,600!!

Worse, the "new" Sequerra company has never actually shipped a product, and has pushed back every production deadline they've published. The M1 is supposed to be shipping now, but... no. An email to them generated a fast e-mail back which said... we're too busy to answer your question, but don't forget to buy a tuner!

And that, my friends, is why I'm still hunting for a 1998 Broadcast Standard, and probably always will be. :no:

THIS, BTW, is my 500th post. I am now officially eligible for the Secret Decoder Ring!

[Jupiter1610]

Here is my tuner lust list-

Accuphase T-100
Kenwood 600T
Sansui TU-919

[Yamaha B-2]

THIS, BTW, is my 500th post. I am now officially eligible for the Secret Decoder Ring!Congratulations! :thmbsp: Just checked with the AK decoder ring supplier (Day Sequerra) and they assure me that yours is "in the mail".

[Negotiableterms]

Congratulations! :thmbsp: Just checked with the AK decoder ring supplier (Day Sequerra) and they assure me that yours is "in the mail".

Thanks!

Day Sequerra...yeah, I told them I'd pay for the M3P when it arrives COD as well, and asked them to consolidate shipping with the ring. :naughty:

[paba]

My wish list would be:
still in production: Accuphase T-1000
out of production: Tie between Burmester 978 and Accuphase T-109V
vintage: Kenwood L-02T
tube: tie between Scott 4310 and Fischer FM-1000

But with today's FM content it would not be worth buing this at the current prices.

[john_w]

THIS, BTW, is my 500th post. I am now officially eligible for the Secret Decoder Ring!

Hey! Where's mine?? :cry:

[mhardy6647]

Hey! Where's mine??
AFVQV MR BLBV

[john_w]

? ? ?

[mhardy6647]

? ? ?
Guess you need your secret decoder ring, John.
Have they taught you the Handshake, yet?

[john_w]

Nope. All I've seen is the hand sign. (Oh, wait -- actually, that one's pretty much universal now that I think of it. :D )

[doug s.]

The only thing left that I really, really want is a Day Sequerra Broadcast Standard, with the panalyzer. I've never seen one for sale, and am beginning to believe I never will.

here's a middle-era iteration that dint get any takers at $4k. and, according to the description, the guy has the broadcast standard as well - make him an offer!!! :D

(note the bic beambox antenna on top)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5824920260
http://i20.ebayimg.com/02/i/05/4e/0f/73_3.JPG

doug s.

[Danamc]

If I had the chance I would grab:

Pioneer F-26 :yes:
Kenwood L-02T :yes:
Accuphase T-1000 :banana:

[doug s.]

If I had the chance I would grab:

Pioneer F-26 :yes:
Kenwood L-02T :yes:
Accuphase T-1000 :banana:
hi dan,

i wouldn't mind hearing any of these! :)

i can tell you that my modded, refurb'd accuphase t109 is, by the tiniest of whiskers, my best tuna. seems it would be a much better buy than a t1000. of course, if we're dreaming... :D

i have yust received a refurb'd (but stock) t100, & i am looking forward to giving it a listen. joseph chow, who did my t109, sez he likes the t100 better. :scratch2:

doug s.

[Danamc]

Unfortunately I haven't had the pleasure of listening to the 109, but I did own a T-108 for awhile and just wasn't impressed for the price these go for. :no: I'm hoping the 109 is an improvement on the 108. :thmbsp:

I agree with Chow on the T-100. One of my favorites, and was one of my first tuners. :) I had mine aligned by **EDITED**@ **EDITED**a couple years ago. Nice rich, weightly soundstage with great bass. However it still takes a backseat to my 600T, recently aligned and re-capped .

Isn't this fun?

Dana

[grumpy]

Dana

Sorry but this person you speak of is not to have his name mentioned ever on this board. This is by their own doing....

Glad your experience went well but they will NEVER receive one bit of free advertising on this board !

[Vinyl Rules!]

Just wanting to get a pulse on what people lust after in the way of tuners that they have not yet aquired....

Me, I want a chance to play with a Sanusi TU-X1. I've tried to get Grumpy to 'rent' me his, but he wisely sees through my evil ways :smoke:

So what do others lust for in the way of Tuners?

Lefty

Well, if money (and land is not a constraint), then a mint Collins R-390A receiver (actually a bank of several hundred of them) coupled with a Wullenweber antenna array :)

Check out http://cryptome.org/elmen-eyeball.htm for photos of the FLR-9 Wullenweber array, simply the absolute finest DX'ing antenna, PERIOD! The FLR-9 is the SR-71 of antennae and it makes the APS-13 nothing more than a paper airplane! :cool:

[TVtommy]

GE cat#5100997 Armstrong FM (42-50mhz.) monitor. Only 25 made, modified by REL. If you're gonna dream, DREAM BIG!

[doug s.]

Well, if money (and land is not a constraint), then a mint Collins R-390A receiver (actually a bank of several hundred of them) coupled with a Wullenweber antenna array :)

Check out http://cryptome.org/elmen-eyeball.htm for photos of the FLR-9 Wullenweber array, simply the absolute finest DX'ing antenna, PERIOD! The FLR-9 is the SR-71 of antennae and it makes the APS-13 nothing more than a paper airplane! :cool:
am i missing something? seems to be optimized for 3mhz-30mhz. i want 88-108!

doug s.

[Vinyl Rules!]

am i missing something? seems to be optimized for 3mhz-30mhz. i want 88-108!

doug s.

Hi doug,

The thread was about the best tuner, not about the frequencies it received. Sorry it's not FM, but that wasn't specified in the thread title (Yeah, I know I'm stretching the thread a bit here ;-)

For it's frequency range, nothing has surpassed the Collins in sensitivity and receptivity. It continues to be used in Iraq by the US government because it is not affected by static charges from the dust storms over there like the newer mega-buck solid state receivers that we learned were essentially useless in the local environment in-country.

I just thought it was pretty interesting that a 50+ year old design that was mothballed had to be called back into service because it (a) was a tube and not a solid state unit; and (2) It's performance greatly surpasses any of the newer stuff our government is paying really big $$$ for.

Similar analogies can be made with audio equipment: I have a private email from Harry Westfeld of VPI where he states he's listened to all the newest and greatest and most expensive phono sections from all the well-known great brands and he hasn't heard one yet that surpasses the phono section performance of a 30+ year old solid state Marantz preamp.

As as vintage tuner owner who's owned and listened to many vintage tuners, you know as well as most everyone here that the older vintage tuners were better built and sound significantly better than any of the new ones being built today. :cool:

[Yamaha B-2]

I have a private email from Harry Westfeld of VPI where he states he's listened to all the newest and greatest and most expensive phono sections from all the well-known great brands and he hasn't heard one yet that surpasses the phono section performance of a 30+ year old solid state Marantz preamp.HW makes killer products for us vinyl folks, but does have some funny ideas about electronics. And his statement shows he definitely has a hearing problem.

[john_w]

Well, if money (and land is not a constraint), then a mint Collins R-390A receiver (actually a bank of several hundred of them) coupled with a Wullenweber antenna array :)


Well, as long as we're talking antennas outside the world of commercial FM, you could at least toy with something collosal in the ham world, both Tx and Rx - adds a whole new dimension! My former community college ET department head was a true ham - certifiable, as well as certified! We went in on an acre of land with a budd, built a giant horizontal parabolic antennae and pointed it at the Soviet Union! He figured he had achieved success when some guy radioed back that he was louder than Voice of America! This guy built his home rig's antennae just shy of the FAA requirements for tower lighting. Caught the top of it on fire once - a little too much power, I suppose. :yikes:

There's yet another cool old hobby about to go the way of the dinosaur. Too bad.

[shelby1420]

So, go ahead and shoot me.[/QUOTE]

:uzi: :lazer: :pistols: :whip:

[doug s.]

I'm gonna be a real killjoy here, and say, "None" to the original post. As no tuner can be even as good as the source material being broadcast, I've always questioned why anyone would spend a fortune on one. Most broadcasts are severely compressed, and a tuner capable of reproducing frequencies from DC to light at .00000000000000000001% distortion won't make the source material sound any better than it does going out over the air.

I've owned my share of quality tuners, and can frankly say I've never heard any difference between any of them, but then I've never used a tuner for serious listening anyway. I liked my Luxman T-110, but it constantly drifted, and eventually, all of its "impossible-to-replace" lights went out. I also owned a dbx tuner which was a very short-lived tuner purchased by dbx from a Japanese OEM supplier. At the time, dbx engineers said it was the best tuner they'd ever heard, so I guess it must have been so, right? Did it sound any better, or even any different from the Luxman? No.

Right now I"m using a TOTL Parasound tuner. When I put it on, it works, and it works fine. To me, that's all that matters.

So, go ahead and shoot me.

it's ok - you have obviously never heard a good tuna broadcasting a quality signal. there's no reason to shoot the ignorant, if they're not hurting anyone else! :D

if you *had* ever heard a really good tuna w/a really good signal, you wouldn't be saying stuff like "no tuna can be as good as the source material, blah, blah..." true, most broadcasts *are* severely compressed. but, all you need is one station that plays music you like, that *isn't* compressed, to make it worthwhile. the fm station i listen to compares favorably to my other digital & winyl sources, which are none-to-shabby, if i can say so, w/o bragging. and, my amplification stuff ain't half-bad either. ;)

re: specific tuna, i owned a lux t-12, which is considered lux's best sounding tuna they ever made. it *did* sound wery nice, tho a hair behind my faves, & it was not the quietest or most sensitive tuna i ever had. re: the tuna's you have owned, i can say that, either they weren't good enuff, or your ancillary gear wasn't revealing enuff, or the stations you listened to were broadcasting crap. (i would suspect the third choice to be most likely.)

so, if there's a quality station broadcasting music ya like, a tuna *is* a worthwhile inwestment, imo.

i do not know if yure familiar w/romy the cat - an obsessive audio nut, if there ever was one. he has recently posted to the yahoo fm tuner forum, asking for antenna wiring help. his musings are quite interesting, re: quality of fm sound that is truly fantastic, even tho it possibly defies what you can explain or expect.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FMtuners/message/32432

ymmv,

doug s.

[bob adams]

IMO a live broadcast sent by an FM station not employing compression is a high quality source. And while quality sound is a highly prized objective, it is not the only objective. Sometimes it's about the grin you get on your mug after you've snagged a weak signal from a distance source. Sometimes it's about discovering a band or vocalist that you've never heard before. Sometimes it's just about getting the music for free or letting someone else make the music choice for you. Happy listening!

[doug s.]

I've never heard any tuner (or "tuna") sound even remotely close to a quality record, or CD. Period. And that includes the classic Marantz 10B.

So, shoot me again.
so, assuming the 10b was working properly, (which is a much rarer occurance w/this tuna than w/many other quality tunas), then you have eliminated possibility #1 as to why you haven't heard good tuna sound. that leaves the two others - your ancillary gear wasn't revealing enuff, or the stations you listened to were broadcasting crap. i should add that having a good antenna will also help extract the most out of a good tuna w/a quality broadcast signal.

still no reason to shoot you - it's your loss, not mine! ;)

best,

doug s.

[Yamaha B-2]

So, go ahead and shoot me.Shoot you?? Hardly! Rather, I'll take pity on you and your tin ears. :sigh:

[john_w]

(Yes, I know that's the British spelling.)


So, shoot me again.

Reminds me of the old joke:

masochist guy: Hello, I'm a masochist!

Sadist Guy: Hello, I'm a sadist!

(long pause...)

Masochist Guy (exasperated): OK, so torcher me already!!!

(another long pause....)

Sadist Guy w/sly grin: No, I don't think so. :D

There's just something more enjoyable about being surprised by every song, rather than having everything pre-set by your selection. Even if you set your 100 CD changer on random mode, it's just too predictable. You can also expand your horizons and discover new music, especially if you have any truly avant-garde stations. A truly talented DJ helps a lot too, if you can find one nowadays. And if you get sick of the compression, idiot DJs and stupid, further compressed and loud commercials, there's always NPR.

[Danamc]

[QUOTE=emaidel] I've owned my share of quality tuners, and can frankly say I've never heard any difference between any of them. QUOTE]

Please accept our sincere condolances. :sigh:

[DanTana]

I think the only one I'd want above all others is an Accuphase T-109V, or the new Sequerra tuner with an LCD scope on it.

[john_w]

Thanks for the heads up!!

Hmmmmm...Since advertising gear is off-limits in the forums, surely you must be giving it away?? Or maybe you're just starting a "Sherwoodophiles Anonymous" group?? ;)

[Lefty]

Cool 90 posts and over 2K views. I don't start many postings but when one catches on it's pretty cool feeling. I also know about R-390As and if they didn't take up so much room I would have had one long ago...

Anyway I've decided to lower my sights on a most wanted tuner and instead of the Sansui TU-X1 (for now anyway) I'm thinking of a Sony 5000F. That's because I've recently lucked into a nearly free ($5) near mint Sony 2000F preamp. I've been looking inside electronics equipment my whole life (and I'm old!) and I was quite impressed by the build quality of this preamp and if it's matching tuner is any where near as well constructed I think that would be next on my watch out for list. The Sansui can wait....

Anyone listen to a 5000F ?

Lefty

[Yamaha B-2]

Good choice - but two problems. First, the ST-5000F is exceedingly rare. And, the manuals for same are even more rare. So good luck on both. But, the ST-5000FW (looks about the same, different front-end) is not nearly so rare and I now have the manual copied, should you need it. Much easier to have good luck with the FW.

[crooner]

Supposedly, the Hallicrafters SX-42 had a very nice "hi-fi" quality FM section.

http://www.w9wze.org/Equipment/Photos/S/sx42-1.jpg

[radioactive]

Supposedly, the Hallicrafters SX-42 had a very nice "hi-fi" quality FM section

dont forget the sx62 or sx62a which also had the fm band.just look at the bandspread on that dial.

[crooner]

Yeah these hallicrafters units are extremely nice. The SX-42 was the company's succesor to the prewar SX-28 and came with a host of features including a preamp output for hi-fi use. Amazing construction. They sell for $$$ on ePay!

[Yamaha B-2]

And, if the FM program is not to your liking, you can always listen to the traffic out of Alaska, Antarctica or wherever. :D

[doug s.]

Well, it's me, ol' "tin ears," again. Now that the nastiest of the responses to my initial posting seem to have subsided, allow me (please) to explain my rationale: FM, as a source material, cannot possibly be any better than that which is initially broadcast. If the DJ is playing a record, then the very best the end user can possibly hope to hear is an exact duplicate of how that record sounds, when played by whatever turntable/cartridge combination the station is using. The same holds true for CD playback: I don't know of any radio stations using the ultra-expensive, super-esoteric transport/converter combos that require second mortgages to own, so again, the best the listener can hope for is a duplicate of however that CD sounds when played back through whatever it is that the station's using.

That being said, the signal then usually goes through an extensive amount of processing, notably compression, that, for my sake, totally ruins musical appreciation. To hear a symphony orchestra build to a crescendo, and then to hear the volume drop precipitously when it reaches it, is paramount to audio blasphemy.

If, on the other hand, a station is capable of a well miked, live broadcast of either an orchestra or a popular group in a studio (not amongst thousands of screaming fans), and is somehow capable of broadcasting that signal without any processing whatsoever, then a substantial investment in an expensive tuner can pay off handsomely. But then, how often (if ever) are there any such broadcasts?

To me, there is a plateau above which additional effort (and money) need not be allocated in the design and manufacture of an FM tuner. Sensitivity, capture ratio and alternate station rejection all matter, as does a quality signal from an outdoor antenna, but at the end of the day, if a tuner cannot possibly sound better than the source material being broadcast, then there is indeed a point of diminishing returns.

The tuners I've owned over the years were all TOTL units, and all very good (and infinitely better than the tuner portions of the Lafayette or Sansui receivers I owned). All had super quiet backgrounds, and sounded as good as I suspect FM can be expected to sound. Did they sound different from one another? In a word, no.

not to sound like a broken record, but...

"that leaves the two others - your ancillary gear wasn't revealing enuff, or the stations you listened to were broadcasting crap. i should add that having a good antenna will also help extract the most out of a good tuna w/a quality broadcast signal.

still no reason to shoot you - it's your loss, not mine! "

go look at romy's site; check out his equipment, read his ideas about recorded music. you will realize he is about as obsessed as it gets, when it comes to getting good audio.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/

read a quote from romy on the yahoo fm tuner forum:

"...I have no idea what that freaking FM modulation does to sound that makes even a CD that I well know to be broadcasted by a radio station and that CD sound more impactfull then the very same CD played on my super-duper digital playback installation, or even analog..."

emaidel, you may "know" that the sound coming off a radio station's playback hardware can only be so good, & then it's further deteriorated. but, your ears will know different. your standard logic cannot explain it. i listen primarily to wpfw, broadcast out of washington, dc. it is a station that broadcasts a really nice, relatively uncompressed, quality signal. i get all the soundstaging cues, frequency extension, dynamics, what-have-you, that i get from cd & winyl. on more than one occasion, i have had someone come over, when i was sitting in the sweet-spot, listening to wpfw cranked pretty nicely. they would join in, and after a few minutes, ask me what artist i was listening to. the look on their faces when i would answer "i dunno, it's the radio", was priceless! :D

yust cuz *you* haven't heard something does not mean it doesn't exist. you say you have heard fm sound "...as good as I suspect FM can be expected to sound..." you obviously have no idea how good fm can sound. you are completely clueless about it.

but again, it certainly isn't *my* loss. ;) and your opinion about fm certainly does not invalidate what *i* hear, or what others have heard. you either can't hear, or you have never heard fm *right* - it doesn't matter what tunas you have tried. this isn't being nasty - this is yust stating facts, based upon your own statements about fm.

good luck,

doug s.

[shelby1420]

emaidel and doug s…..play nice boys, each of you bring up good points, lets try to respect all of them, not just yer own................

[doug s.]

emaidel and doug s…..play nice boys, each of you bring up good points, lets try to respect all of them, not just yer own................
rick, what am i saying that isn't playing nice? i am yust stating the obvious - yust cuz someone hasn't heard quality fm, that doesn't mean quality fm does not exist. i, and many many others have heard it. i agree it certainly doesn't exist for emaidel; the only point i am making is that there has to be another reason for that. since quality fm certainly *does* exist, but emaidel has never heard it, that doesn't leave too many options for reasons why he hasn't heard it.... :scratch2:

regards,

doug s.

[doug s.]

emaidel, when i was in lie, uh, i mean law school, i learned a latin phrase - "res ipsa loqitor". translated, it means "the thing speaks for itself". you state you cannot consider fm as a viable source of *serious* listening. you simply haven't heard fm done correctly, *regardless* of anything else. what was wrong in your situation, i can't say, but it's clear that something was, or you wouldn't consider that fm is not a viable serious listening source. "res ipsa loqitor" - 'nuff said.

best,

doug s.

[shelby1420]

doug s and emaidel, the first attempt was me doin my best to be nice, this is a good thread thats turnin shitty cuz of you two, cut it out!!! You both have your opinions, they are both valid--PERIOD!! You two wanna carry on this my idea is good and yours is dumb crap, please do it away from this thread, clear?

[bob adams]

I listened to these broadcasts on my system which includes mostly Adcom equipment,.....

Well that explains it..... you had an Adcom tuner! :)

[radioactive]

The SX-42 was the company's succesor to the prewar SX-28 and came with a host of features including a preamp output for hi-fi use.

wow i didint know that it had a preamp output.hallicrafters did however enter the hi fi market for a brief stint but quickly vanished almost as quickly as they had entered.they put out a monobloc amp the a86 which used a pr of kt66's .there was also a tuner i beleive it was the st96 which had a built in preamp.dont know how many were made but i suspect not many .
chris

[shelby1420]

Think I posted this a while back but all i want for Christmas is my TU 9900 my TU 9900.............................................

[radioactive]

Think I posted this a while back but all i want for Christmas is my TU 9900 my TU 9900.............................................


me too, and hopefully if things work out i'll have one by then :yes:

[shelby1420]

Good luck, once i get mine its gonna be makin the trip to Punkers house to give it the once over!!!

[john_w]

Actually, doug s.' perception that the broadcast sounded better than the source is interesting. Sometimes lossy processing (which FM broadcasting can ONLY be) smooths out some of the harshness in even great quality sources, and gives many people a better listening experience. What you mean by "quality" can depend on either your own subjective criteria, or the physics behind it. IMO, if it sounds better to you, great!! No arguement is possible in this case, and none should be necessary.

If, however, the criteria is "high fidelity", then I have to say emadel is correct; You can't possible bring something closer to the source by further processing it for other purposes. (Some processing, such as dynamic range expanders and various filters, may be able to restore information, but that's what they're strictly designed to do.) But again, that isn't necessarily the only valid criterion.

I don't think either of these guys' latest posts were out-of-hand, but this is a side issue that is amounting to a thread hijack, so I'll quit here.

Peace,
jw

[radioactive]

Good luck, once i get mine its gonna be makin the trip to Punkers house to give it the once over!!!

if i get the one im thinking of thats exactly where it'll probally be going to make a pitstop before heading here.

[Vinyl Rules!]

I don't want to start another jihad here about analog FM quality, but IMHO, there ARE some are some good FM stations out there and some of them are located in the hinterlands and not always in the big cities.

Check out the "Studio B" broadcasts at http://www.wncw.org/

WNCW is of course a college station, but IMHO, with a good tuner and a strong signal, this station sounds as good or better than any LP or CD on SOME of their Studio B live broadcasts. Another station I can pick up in the remote rural area I live in (the corner where the TN/NC/VA borders intersect) is WETS in Johnson City, TN. This, too, is a college station and they also do many live broadcasts in the afternoon. What's even more amazing, I don't get a direct shot at WETS: Their tower is WSW of where we live and I have to listen to them off a bounced signal from a mountainn WNW of us!

We have a small collection of different tuners here and it is very easy to hear differences between them, particularly on these live broadcasts.

In closing, I'll say 98% of our listening is done at the low end of the dial: The commercial stations we can get use so much compression they are not really enjoyable. We even tried DBX'ing them using a three-band 3BX expander and it was no help - They still sounded like crap.

With the college stations we get, we find we can listen, seriously listen, and relax. We have a DISH Network package that comes with the SIRIUS radio stations, and we've tried listening to some of the SIRIUS channels, using a good external DAC, and we find ourselves becoming irritable and restless after a half hour or so of SIRIUS listening. We've read XM Radio is no better, so satellite radio is a non starter for us.

But we did notice Romy stated he lived in Denver. I was looking at a job opportunity in Denver about 6 months ago and noted there was not a single FM station broadcasting "A Prairie Home Companion," a popular show on Public Radio. There was an AM station in Denver listed on the PHC web site, but it seemed like Denver had no decent FM stations and that may be one of the challanges Romy faces.

FWIW, there is a review of a new Yamaha A/V receiver in the current issue of "The Perfect Vision" that is XM capable and the reviewer noted that while XM had good dynamics and was quiet, there was no depth or soundstage in the signal, but he could make XM listenable by engaging the DPLII Music mode on his review unit. :cool:

[doug s.]

Actually, doug s.' perception that the broadcast sounded better than the source is interesting. Sometimes lossy processing (which FM broadcasting can ONLY be) smooths out some of the harshness in even great quality sources, and gives many people a better listening experience. What you mean by "quality" can depend on either your own subjective criteria, or the physics behind it. IMO, if it sounds better to you, great!! No arguement is possible in this case, and none should be necessary.

If, however, the criteria is "high fidelity", then I have to say emadel is correct; You can't possible bring something closer to the source by further processing it for other purposes. (Some processing, such as dynamic range expanders and various filters, may be able to restore information, but that's what they're strictly designed to do.) But again, that isn't necessarily the only valid criterion.

I don't think either of these guys' latest posts were out-of-hand, but this is a side issue that is amounting to a thread hijack, so I'll quit here.

Peace,
jw

hi jw,

it is not *my* assertion that the broadcast sounded better than the source. i yust posted a link to comments from someone who obsesses about the end-result of recorded sound a lot more than i do, or most of us here, for that matter. he has obviously found, that in some cases, he gets *better* sound from his tuna than from his other sources. and, he has some pretty *incredible* "other sources".

people argue all the time about whether or not "additional processing" adds or detracts from "high fidelity". my take on it is that if it sounds more *musical* it is more "hi-fidelity", regardless of what did or did not get it to sound that way. sometimes processing does this, sometimes not.

but, all this distracts from the point that i *was* trying to make - which is simply that a quality fm tuna, receiving a quality signal from a quality broadcast, is in fact a worthy serious music source, comparable w/that of cd & winyl. of course, many others know this, and, based upon some of the comments after emaidel's initial post, (not yust mine, btw), some of the folks that know this are participating in this thread. ;)

best,

doug s.

[john_w]

There was an AM station in Denver listed on the PHC web site, but it seemed like Denver had no decent FM stations...


Come to think of it, you're right...I mentioned NPR earlier, but IIRC the only public radio in Denver on FM is mostly for talk. The only music-related one (also the one that carries PHC) is in fact AM. I recall noticing this before, and thinking what a backwards waste of bandwidth that is. What were they thinking??

BTW, it would be interesting to compare the TU-X1 with the one I've got my eye on, the TU-919. There seems to be some differing opinions as to which delivers better sound. Maybe they're just too close to call. Regardless, I think the TU-919 looks more like it belongs with my AU-919 than the TU-X1 does (as one might expect), plus I like the more retro look, so the 919 is still at the top of my list.

[doug s.]

I don't want to start another jihad here about analog FM quality, but IMHO, there ARE some are some good FM stations out there and some of them are located in the hinterlands and not always in the big cities.

Check out the "Studio B" broadcasts at http://www.wncw.org/

WNCW is of course a college station, but IMHO, with a good tuner and a strong signal, this station sounds as good or better than any LP or CD on SOME of their Studio B live broadcasts. Another station I can pick up in the remote rural area I live in (the corner where the TN/NC/VA borders intersect) is WETS in Johnson City, TN. This, too, is a college station and they also do many live broadcasts in the afternoon. What's even more amazing, I don't get a direct shot at WETS: Their tower is WSW of where we live and I have to listen to them off a bounced signal from a mountainn WNW of us!

We have a small collection of different tuners here and it is very easy to hear differences between them, particularly on these live broadcasts.

In closing, I'll say 98% of our listening is done at the low end of the dial: The commercial stations we can get use so much compression they are not really enjoyable. We even tried DBX'ing them using a three-band 3BX expander and it was no help - They still sounded like crap.

With the college stations we get, we find we can listen, seriously listen, and relax. We have a DISH Network package that comes with the SIRIUS radio stations, and we've tried listening to some of the SIRIUS channels, using a good external DAC, and we find ourselves becoming irritable and restless after a half hour or so of SIRIUS listening. We've read XM Radio is no better, so satellite radio is a non starter for us.

But we did notice Romy stated he lived in Denver. I was looking at a job opportunity in Denver about 6 months ago and noted there was not a single FM station broadcasting "A Prairie Home Companion," a popular show on Public Radio. There was an AM station in Denver listed on the PHC web site, but it seemed like Denver had no decent FM stations and that may be one of the challanges Romy faces.

FWIW, there is a review of a new Yamaha A/V receiver in the current issue of "The Perfect Vision" that is XM capable and the reviewer noted that while XM had good dynamics and was quiet, there was no depth or soundstage in the signal, but he could make XM listenable by engaging the DPLII Music mode on his review unit. :cool:

hi sam,

fyi, romy, who loves fm as a serious listening source, lives in boston. it's emaidel, who isn't so enamoured of fm as a serious listening source, who lives in denver.

i, too, have a dbx 3bx. i find it sometimes helps for compressed broadcasts/recordings, sometimes not. as there's usually not much i wanna hear on *commercial* radio content-wise anyways, it doesn't get used all that much. it really is a shame what's happened to commercial radio... :worried:

the dbx 3bx does help sometimes, tho. for example, the santana "supernatural" lp is compressed as hell. ya, i was suckered into buying it, thinking it wouldn't be compressed like the cd, since it was released on winyl; i was wrong - what a waste. anyway, it sounds a *lot* better w/the dbx 3bx in use than not in use. more "hi-fidelity", for sure! ;)

i have also had similar experience w/xm - a buddy has it, & it's not listenable at all. even for background music, it's irritating, yust as you have stated. it's less-so, if a tube buffer stage is inserted between the digital receiver & the preamp...

regards,

doug s., long live public & college radio! :)

[Vinyl Rules!]

Come to think of it, you're right...I mentioned NPR earlier, but IIRC the only public radio in Denver on FM is mostly for talk. The only music-related one (also the one that carries PHC) is in fact AM. I recall noticing this before, and thinking what a backwards waste of bandwidth that is. What were they thinking??

BTW, it would be interesting to compare the TU-X1 with the one I've got my eye on, the TU-919. There seems to be some differing opinions as to which delivers better sound. Maybe they're just too close to call. Regardless, I think the TU-919 looks more like it belongs with my AU-919 than the TU-X1 does (as one might expect), plus I like the more retro look, so the 919 is still at the top of my list.

If you're considering a TU-919, Ed Hanlon at APS does a wonderful mod on them where he can disable the signal lock feature so you can tune a station off-centre if you need to. I know Ed thinks this is a great tuner and IMHO he could do a super job refurbishing and aligning one for you.

OTOH, people who's opinion I respect tell me there's a world of difference, both sound-wise and performance-wise between the TU-X1 and the TU-919, all in favour of the TU-X1. I know the TIC group really liked the TU-919 they tested and gave it a great review, but they like the TU-X1 even more. So many choices. :cool:

[doug s.]

Come to think of it, you're right...I mentioned NPR earlier, but IIRC the only public radio in Denver on FM is mostly for talk. The only music-related one (also the one that carries PHC) is in fact AM. I recall noticing this before, and thinking what a backwards waste of bandwidth that is. What were they thinking??

BTW, it would be interesting to compare the TU-X1 with the one I've got my eye on, the TU-919. There seems to be some differing opinions as to which delivers better sound. Maybe they're just too close to call. Regardless, I think the TU-919 looks more like it belongs with my AU-919 than the TU-X1 does (as one might expect), plus I like the more retro look, so the 919 is still at the top of my list.
john w,

if aesthetics are at all a concern, then stick w/the tu-919. besides its being a lot less money, it has been my finding that, even tho there *are* diffences between tunas, that the differences between the top tunas become vanishingly small. so, you may as well get one that you really like, re: its looks, ergonomics, etc., if it's still a top-sounding tuna. imo, of course! ;)

doug s.

[doug s.]

If you're considering a TU-919, Ed Hanlon at APS does a wonderful mod on them where he can disable the signal lock feature so you can tune a station off-centre if you need to. I know Ed thinks this is a great tuner and IMHO he could do a super job refurbishing and aligning one for you.

OTOH, people who's opinion I respect tell me there's a world of difference, both sound-wise and performance-wise between the TU-X1 and the TU-919, all in favour of the TU-X1. I know the TIC group really liked the TU-919 they tested and gave it a great review, but they like the TU-X1 even more. So many choices. :cool:
a world of difference? i wonder. look at this quote from jim rivers in his tic "shootout", comparing the pioneer ft-91 (which ranks 45th on the present list of 81):

"...In a large room, in a big sound system, I might choose this Pioneer over the L-02T..."

while there may be differences between the tu-x1 & the tu-919, i really don't think they will be all that meaningful. and, this is coming from a certifiable tunaholic! :D there are a handful of tunas that i have owned (i still own a lot of 'em), that would *all* be fantastic serious-music sources, if i were only to keep one...

ymmv,

doug s.

[john_w]

hi doug - duely noted. I said I'd drop this, so I'll just mention that this is the statement I was referring to, which was not part of the quote off Romy's site.


emaidel, you may "know" that the sound coming off a radio station's playback hardware can only be so good, & then it's further deteriorated. but, your ears will know different. your standard logic cannot explain it.


Maybe another thread on this would be a good idea - something like "Just How Good can FM Really Get?" But I'll leave that up to you guys.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program: "Tuners and the Audio Slaves Who Love Them!!" :D

Oh, and....

:worthless

(Seriously - If you truly lust after them, let's see more eye candy!!)

My contributions can be found on the sansui.us site:

TU-919 (http://www.sansui.us/images/TU919_Series/TU919_2.jpg),
TU-X1 (http://www.sansui.us/images/TUX1/TUX1_9.jpg),
TU-9500 (http://www.sansui.us/images/TU9500_Series/TU7500_2.jpg) (to match up with my AU-9500).

Regarding dbx, I've heard a 3bx expander work wonders with some compressed FM.

-- And thanks for the info Sam!

- jw

[john_w]

I seem to remain several posts behind - this is a hot thread!

My last comment to doug s. was mostly in reference to post #115. Sorry for any confusion,

jw

[shelby1420]

I have owned the TU 717,719, and presently have the TU 919, have only ever touched one TU XI, grumps.....spent a good portion of the time wipin off the drool..... as much as i love the sound of the TU 919 I want the TU 9900 to go along with the other pieces of gear I own!!!! I thought the 717 was a better tuner then the 719 and not quite as good as the 919.......can't wait till I get the 9900 home!!!!

[doug s.]

hi doug - duely noted. I said I'd drop this, so I'll just mention that this is the statement I was referring to, which was not part of the quote off Romy's site.



Maybe another thread on this would be a good idea - something like "Just How Good can FM Really Get?" But I'll leave that up to you guys.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program: "Tuners and the Audio Slaves Who Love Them!!" :D

Oh, and....

:worthless

(Seriously - If you truly lust after them, let's see more eye candy!!)

My contributions can be found on the sansui.us site:

TU-919 (http://www.sansui.us/images/TU919_Series/TU919_2.jpg),
TU-X1 (http://www.sansui.us/images/TUX1/TUX1_9.jpg),
TU-9500 (http://www.sansui.us/images/TU9500_Series/TU7500_2.jpg) (to match up with my AU-9500).

Regarding dbx, I've heard a 3bx expander work wonders with some compressed FM.

-- And thanks for the info Sam!

- jw

hi jw,

yes, that *was* me, wasn't it... :D the only point i was trying to make is that there likely *isn't* a standard technical explanation why fm can sound so good - at least any technical explanation that *i* can make. perhaps an rf engineer could come up w/one. iirc, there *was* actually some talk about this on the yahoo fm tuner forum at one time...

as to the broadcast actually sounding *better* than the software on my home rig, well i can't say i am so intimately familiar w/any particular piece of music to make that determination. but, i *have* heard a lot of stuff on my fave station that i have on my own software, & it is not lacking in any way, left to stand on its own. perhaps, in a direct a-b, between the tuna playing the software, & me playing a cd or album on my rig, i could note some differences... :scratch2:

doug s.

[john_w]

shelby - sounds like more or less the same reasoning as mine. The way Sansui designed their components, there is a real urge to match integrated amps with their original tuner counterparts when collecting. Apparently, Sansui's product designers and marketing gurus knew a thing or two.

- jw

[shelby1420]

Yup, you see an AU 919 or 9500 together with the matching TU 919 or 9500 tis a very pretty picture!!!! For me its gonna be that wall oh green when i Have the BA 5000 on the bottom and the TU 9900 above that and then the CA 3000 above that, yeehaw.....................

[doug s.]

ok, here are some pics of former & current tuna - more to come...

doug s.

[doug s.]

and s'more...

doug s.

[doug s.]

more...

[bolly]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/gregbolly/Marantz2130.jpg

[doug s.]

and more...

there's more that haven't bee captured on film... :scratch2:
doug s.

[bob adams]

Romy the Cat can listen to all the live jazz he could dream of at KUVO in Denver, CO. The engineer there just completed the installation of a state of the art live broadcast studio. Here's a link:

http://www.rwonline.com/reference-room/trans-2-digital/rwf-kuvo-july4.shtml

One thing everyone should consider in this Quality of Signal Debate is the quality of the equipment used to actually capture the live music before it is broadcast over the airwaves. Things like the microphones used make a huge difference. Just because someone can't get good sound out of his tuner during live broadcasts in NYC doesn't mean the tuner is a bad medium for the task.

[Trawlerman]

Tuner? Got one of those, an Audiolab 8000Q. It's ranked 4th in the FM Tuners listings.

I wish I had an antenna. My 23 ele has been sat in the garden for the past 9 months :pity:

[doug s.]

Romy the Cat can listen to all the live jazz he could dream of at KUVO in Denver, CO. The engineer there just completed the installation of a state of the art live broadcast studio. Here's a link:

http://www.rwonline.com/reference-room/trans-2-digital/rwf-kuvo-july4.shtml

One thing everyone should consider in this Quality of Signal Debate is the quality of the equipment used to actually capture the live music before it is broadcast over the airwaves. Things like the microphones used make a huge difference. Just because someone can't get good sound out of his tuner during live broadcasts in NYC doesn't mean the tuner is a bad medium for the task.
romy the cat will have a hell of a time getting kuvo, as he lives in boston! :scratch2:

doug s.

[bob adams]

Damn doug, I thought for sure I read somwhere on FMtuners or here the guy lived in Denver? Maybe he has a good computer and can stream KUVO! If not I'm sure APS will sell him an APS-13. :D

[bob adams]

All those tuners just lanquishing away down your basement or den. There are a lot of :pity: us poor, disadvantaged, but ultimately deserving AKers :pity: who would love to try some of your neglected castoffs. Keep in mind, those tuners deserve to be used. They need to be used. IBOC is coming. Remember ......

Like sands through the hourglass...so are days of those tuners lives.

or

A high dollar tuner is a terrible thing to waste!

or

It is better to give than receive.

[doug s.]

All those tuners just lanquishing away down your basement or den. There are a lot of :pity: us poor, disadvantaged, but ultimately deserving AKers :pity: who would love to try some of your neglected castoffs. Keep in mind, those tuners deserve to be used. They need to be used. IBOC is coming. Remember ......

Like sands through the hourglass...so are days of those tuners lives.

or

A high dollar tuner is a terrible thing to waste!

or

It is better to give than receive.
i don't still own all those tunas pictured. only eight of 'em! :D plus, i confess to owning a few more not pictured. :)

i need to sell a few - i have some bills that need to get paid... :scratch2:

regards,

doug s.

[DanTana]

Here's one I been sort of wanting until today :)

TU-1500RDS

[Yamaha B-2]

Why until today? Had one and was nice, but not noticeably great sound. Sort of in the middle of what I've tried. Handy to have a remote and I liked the display, when I noticed.

[DanTana]

I just picked it up this evening, listening now to it. I'm still debating sound quality, but so far it sounds pretty good to me. Nicely extended highs, good bass, maybe midrange a hair on the chesty side, but quite listenable. Soundstage is better than I thought it would be. Maybe I just got a good one? It was never used when I bought it, guy didn't even know it had RDS.

[Bogframe]

I just use the tuna on my Realistic STA2000D. With the radio reception here, it's good enough, but I have an SAE 8000 gathering dust that looks as if it could be a good 'un.

[Bluelobster]

Something I notice you all miss or pass right over is the Harman Kardon Citation IIIx. It'll go head to head with any tube and all SS I have listened to. I have 3 of them by the way.

[madpioneer]

Bluelobster Something I notice you all miss or pass right over is the Harman Kardon Citation IIIx. It'll go head to head with any tube and all SS I have listened to. I have 3 of them by the way.

Needs some pics of those bad boys!!! :thmbsp:

[Retro Stereo]

Pioneer F-26


Retro