Anyone have experience with Fidelity Research FR-54 & FR24 tonearms?

[mjw21a]

I'm not entirely sure about that. I suspect the JVC is a nice, quiet drive unit and with a better arm the end result could be really nice.

Just a question: have you ever heard or used the FR-24 or 54? Have you run both an Ariston and a relatively upper-tier DD table? The FR arms are vastly better than you imagine them to be and a good DD table can sound every bit as good as something like an Ariston, if perhaps a bit different. I run both an Ariston and a Technics SP-15, have a FR-24 MkII arm and am quite familiar with the Rega arms as well. I know someone with a an upper-tier DD table running a FR-24 MkII on it and in a head-to-head comparison with the top-of-the-line current Rega the pairing came off as easily equivalent through a really fine system. I've seen reference to the FR-24 being at least as good as a Graham Phantom. Don't sell these arms short, not by any means. In the Rega line you would have to go to either the upper tier of the current offerings or move to one of the boutique versions like the Audiomods to get the same results and at a great deal more expense.

Aye, there are better direct drives than the QL7, though not much better and almost certainly better than anything in current production. The known weak point of this table is tge plinth which I plan to address. I think the arm, while good, isn't a patch on my FR24.

BTW I wouldn't expect to get exactly the same presentation from the arm on the solid plinth DD table as from a suspended belt drive. Equivalent quality, certainly.... but different. In my limited experience a solid plinth DD will have a bit drier, perhaps more "correct" approach? Not inferior, but a different "flavour". I don't know about anyone else, but I don't necessarily want all of my tables to sound alike.

Yes, I'm expecting the tone to be different though it should reveal more layers of detail compared to the stock arm

 

[bob smog]

What table do you have in mind? I could pull mine out (it is waiting for me to get my TD-125 done to get mounted) or maybe the OP could take a shot at a measurement?

A Fairchild 412 (of course ). The platter on these is fairly low profile. I'm away from the tt until the weekend, so I can't measure the platter height.

Worried about not being able to get the tail down. Maybe it's an optical illusion, but the 24 looks "tall". Still, I would love to give one a try.

 

[fiddlefye]

A Fairchild 412 (of course ). The platter on these is fairly low profile. I'm away from the tt until the weekend, so I can't measure the platter height.

Worried about not being able to get the tail down. Maybe it's an optical illusion, but the 24 looks "tall". Still, I would love to give one a try.

Sometime in the next few days I'll drag the FR-24 MkII out from the Arts and Crafts sideboard in our bedroom (residing just about directly under the recently restored Harmon Kardon ST6 table, actually) and I will put a ruler to it. If anything I think it can go lower than the Sumiko MMT I have with th SP-15 now.

Yeah, very much looking forward to more on the Fairchild......

 

[fiddlefye]

Aye, there are better direct drives than the QL7, though not much better and almost certainly better than anything in current production. The known weak point of this table is tge plinth which I plan to address. I think the arm, while good, isn't a patch on my FR24.
Yes, I'm expecting the tone to be different though it should reveal more layers of detail compared to the stock arm

The Aristons tend a bit on the "euphonic" side, the JVC will be a "drier" presentation. Different flavours, both enjoyable IMO. From what I've read the drive unit in the QL7 is up with the best of the "consumer" level DDs and probably smoother and quieter than my SP-15 which was designed to be a workhorse torque monster. I was sorely tempted to try out the FR with the SP-15 when I was doing things up recently, but the plinth I'm using isn't set up for multiple arm boards and the FR is definitely earmarked to go on the TD-125 when it is done up. So I ended up with a Sumiko MMT which, while no patch on a FR-24 MkII is still not bad and will serve fine in the role.

 

[mjw21a]

Yes, I spent a lot of time researching the QL7 before buying it. The TT-71 motor in it is excellent. I believe the only difference from the TT-81 is it had only 1 quartz lock and 1 brake though I may be wrong. It's been a few years since I researched it

At the time I got into turntables I preferred the sound of an "accurate" turntable, hence me focusing on direct drives in the early days. I went off what I'd read rather than personal experience. Since I've learned that both idler and belt drives offer different sonic benefits. It would be nice to have all three really.

 

[neobop]

Hi,
The TT71 motor unit is excellent, but you still have the stock QL7 plinth? From what I've read, and other users, the QL7 came with a UA 5045 arm. Mounting distance is 230mm.
Is this correct? An upgrade for the arm would be the 7045 - same mounting distance. The 7045 is held in high regard. With most vintage Japanese arms you're pretty safe assuming a 15mm overhang. Most came with a factory alignment close to Stevenson. If you use one of the Loefgren alignments, you might want to move it in a couple of mm.

It's hard to understand why you're judging arms with a stock plinth on the JVC. Even if you don't replace the plinth, some braces and added mass go a long way. I wonder how the 5045 would stack up in a fair comparison.
neo

 

[jeremyjustic]

here are some quick photos of the english manual

 

[jeremyjustic]

 

[fiddlefye]

Cool!

 

[VinylHanger]

I have my 54 on a TD-124. Sounds pretty nice for sure. It's been a troublefree and cooperative tonearm with anything I've thrown on it.

For those who have one, is there any way you could weigh the antiskate weight? Mine has always been missing. I just use a medium splitshot, but would love to have the correct weight on there.

 

[sreten]

Hi,

What is the problem with doing the arm swap to understand the playing field to a degree ?

It may well prove me wrong if the JVC/FR slaughters the Ariston/JVC, but what is the harm ?

I suspect it won't be that simple and it will be a useful exercise in understanding turntables.

Some say what matters is the turntable, then arm, then cartridge. (I do, and synergy applies.)
Some think the arm matters more than the turntable, some think its all about the cartridge.

Here at least it is accepted in the OP the turntable/arm makes a big difference,
and its not all about the cartridge. I'm just suggesting some experimentation
to help understand the turntable / arm relationship that for the experimentor
will be definitive, independent of any proffered opinions / conjecture here.

rgds, sreten.

 

[mjw21a]

Hi,
The TT71 motor unit is excellent, but you still have the stock QL7 plinth? From what I've read, and other users, the QL7 came with a UA 5045 arm. Mounting distance is 230mm.
Is this correct? An upgrade for the arm would be the 7045 - same mounting distance. The 7045 is held in high regard. With most vintage Japanese arms you're pretty safe assuming a 15mm overhang. Most came with a factory alignment close to Stevenson. If you use one of the Loefgren alignments, you might want to move it in a couple of mm.

It's hard to understand why you're judging arms with a stock plinth on the JVC. Even if you don't replace the plinth, some braces and added mass go a long way. I wonder how the 5045 would stack up in a fair comparison.
neo

Yeah , stock plinth . It's getting some bracing and Dynamat treatment this weekend . A little modification will be needed to install the FR54 as its length is 245mm. There's room to do it though. Will veneer the table afterwards. I will likely need to modify the dust cover so it will fit as well. Since the FR54 has already been posted now I'm committed to this course of action .

 

[muovimies]

I think you'll surprise yourself regarding the importance of the turntable to the overall sound. When you get around to it, I'd start by swapping the arms between the JVC & Ariston and then do a shoot-out between the FR arms.

I think the FR-54 is an excellent tonearm in it's class. It's not a heavy weight, but typical mid-mass s-shaped arm. With the original headshell I think it's effective mass was around 16g, but the original shell was something like 12g if I remember correctly. So with a lightweight headshell it's not a heavy arm at all. The FR-54 & FR-24 were the affordable arms by Fidelity-Research. FR-24 originated in the early/mid sixties and was built until late 70s. FR-54 was a 70s design, discontinued around the same time as FR-24. I own the FR-54, always wanted a FR-24 as well for it's funky looks, soundwise I hear there's not much between them, preference going either way depending on who you ask. I suppose soon you'll be one more person to ask

 

[fiddlefye]

Hi,

What is the problem with doing the arm swap to understand the playing field to a degree ?

It may well prove me wrong if the JVC/FR slaughters the Ariston/JVC, but what is the harm ?

I suspect it won't be that simple and it will be a useful exercise in understanding turntables.

Some say what matters is the turntable, then arm, then cartridge. (I do, and synergy applies.)
Some think the arm matters more than the turntable, some think its all about the cartridge.

Here at least it is accepted in the OP the turntable/arm makes a big difference,
and its not all about the cartridge. I'm just suggesting some experimentation
to help understand the turntable / arm relationship that for the experimentor
will be definitive, independent of any proffered opinions / conjecture here.

rgds, sreten.

The problem becomes the expense and labour involved in the process, making or buying arm boards, resetting the suspension in the Ariston etc. There is more actual knowledge afoot going into this situation than you might think and rather less conjecture. Sure, it would be fun and enlightening to try every possible combination and I would love to be in a position to do so. I have in fact done a bit of this with a couple of arm/cart combinations on very different tables in past. Given a similar level of quality in the table (not one is junk and another wonderful) and everything is set up equally well my finding was that the arm and cart made noticeably more difference than the drive source. No, they didn't sound the same, but rather "equivalently good". I suspect that will in the end be the result in this case as well, especially once there is a more massive plinth for the JVC motor

 

[mjw21a]

The problem becomes the expense and labour involved in the process, making or buying arm boards, resetting the suspension in the Ariston etc. There is more actual knowledge afoot going into this situation than you might think and rather less conjecture. Sure, it would be fun and enlightening to try every possible combination and I would love to be in a position to do so. I have in fact done a bit of this with a couple of arm/cart combinations on very different tables in past. Given a similar level of quality in the table (not one is junk and another wonderful) and everything is set up equally well my finding was that the arm and cart made noticeably more difference than the drive source. No, they didn't sound the same, but rather "equivalently good". I suspect that will in the end be the result in this case as well, especially once there is a more massive plinth for the JVC motor

That's rather what I'm expecting and hoping for

 

[jeremyjustic]

I have my 54 on a TD-124. Sounds pretty nice for sure. It's been a troublefree and cooperative tonearm with anything I've thrown on it.

For those who have one, is there any way you could weigh the antiskate weight? Mine has always been missing. I just use a medium splitshot, but would love to have the correct weight on there.

it was a little hard to get my digital scale under there but it weighed in at 2.3 grams.

 

[fiddlefye]

That's rather what I'm expecting and hoping for

If it isn't too much trouble I would see if you can't mount the arm on the JVC with the plinth as-is just to give you a better opportunity to gauge the results of that change better as well. That could also be interesting. I've also noted that with a solid plinth you really need to pay more attention to isolation if you're planning on any higher listening levels at all. I was listening to something with the SP-15/Sumiko/AT ProBase set up today at a pretty good clip and noticed that some frequencies got the AT sprung feet a bit lively. I guess I need to get something heavier underneath and maybe something like an inner tube for some mroe isolation if I'm going to listen at those levels. Either that or keep it down a bit and have no problem.

 

[mjw21a]

I'm really only going to do corner braces and Dynamat treatment. Nothing too complicated . Once complete I'll strip it back down and apply self adhesive veneer , apply some wood oil and wipe off the excess . Anything more than that is a bit beyond me .

 

[sreten]

That's rather what I'm expecting and hoping for

Hi,

Well your purchase of the FR54 is presented as a "fait accompli"
and of course the above is exactly what you are wishing for for.

I've modified / tuned turntables for many years and its not simple.

However I hope you get what you want in your terms. I've never
had the the chance to tune/modify/tweak an Ariston RD110SL.
In my humble opinion I could tune it to be a really great deck.

FWIW IMO all great turntables have a suspended subchassis.
The rest never get beyond very good, despite strong opinions.
(Within the caveat of similar reasonable cost and VFM.)

rgds, sreten.

 

[fiddlefye]

Hi,

Well your purchase of the FR54 is presented as a "fait accompli"
and of course the above is exactly what you are wishing for for.

I've modified / tuned turntables for many years and its not simple.

However I hope you get what you want in your terms. I've never
had the the chance to tune/modify/tweak an Ariston RD110SL.
In my humble opinion I could tune it to be a really great deck.

FWIW IMO all great turntables have a suspended subchassis.
The rest never get beyond very good, despite strong opinions.
(Within the caveat of similar reasonable cost and VFM.)

rgds, sreten.

The Ariston is certainly a really nice table and pretty much all of the tweaks and tuning that apply to a LP-12 or TD-160 should transfer in varying degrees. I can't agree that all the great decks are of the suspended variety, however. There are many paths that can get to similarly excellent results and I think most would agree that a suspended design (as good as they can be) is only one of them. In the end it boils down to removing vibration before it gets to somewhere it can cause trouble and there are a wide variety of ways of accomplishing this goal with the utmost success. As to cost being a factor, it is whatever you end up having to spend regardless of the basic design.