McIntosh ML-1C speakers

[motorstereo]

I heard a story years ago (from a reliable source) about a demonstration done by Mac involving a single ML1C vs. a pair of khorns and concert grands. This demonstration was done on a stage behind a curtain so no one could see what was playing and everyone was astounded when the curtain was raised. Supposedly the single ML1C came out on top which I found damn near impossible to believe. I've never found any reference online to this and I'm wondering if this did actually happen?

 

[motorstereo]

Well it looks as though I was the only one to hear that story. My thoughts are that it would take one heck of a stack of ML1C's to equal a pair of CG's and I certainly couldn't envision a single doing it

 

[c_dk]

Never heard that story, what was your reliable source's connection to the demo?

I did host a number of live vs speaker demo's with Gordon Gow. We used a MAC4100 receiver a a pair of XR16s in our 20'X38' main showroom space. The XR16s were much too small for that size space and needed much dialing in with a parametric MQ107.

I do believe that AR first started doing their live vs speaker demos back in the very early 70s.

 

[motorstereo]

Sadly my source to the story died 2 years ago. He was heavily involved with audio for most of his life and was especially fond of Mac gear. He gave explicit details of that particular demo and I wish now I'd asked more questions.

 

[c_dk]

I can not see this demo being done by McIntosh or a dealer. Audio club or society maybe.....

If you if you ever were at a Mac Amp clinic or sat through a Gordon Gow talk, you would know they did not denigrate other company's products. They were always polite, maybe even more so when they knew the product in question was a piece of dung....

What dealer who was a Klipsch, or a Bozak, or AR or whatever would want to denigrate a product that they had in their back room to sell?

The Mac speakers were good speakers, some liked them, others hated them. The politics and financial complications of too many speaker lines available often overshadowed the "sound" of speakers. Customers, the end users often do not realize the difficulties, the cost, of having products displayed to audition....

 

[motorstereo]

That makes sense c dk and I never thought of that angle. I remember now reading in the Mcintosh book that Gordon Gow didn't believe in denigrating other products. I'll have to chalk this one up to never happening.

 

[c_dk]

I suspect it happened at something like the Boston audio society or at a audio club of some sort.

Those guys seemed to enjoy busting someones chops so to speak....

 

[Johnny 007]

I inherited a pair of McIntosh ML1C speakers along with the equalizer. They were in good shape and had been re-foamed. Anyway, I was always of the opinion that while McIntosh amplifiers were OK, their speakers were just their attempt to capitalize on people who had to have McIntosh. To make a long story short, I sent them to an auction along with a bunch other junk. Someone bought the pair and the equalizer for $75.

 

[62caddy]

An MQ101 is worth several times that alone.

 

[mwo1268]

Hi everyone, I know this is an old thread, but I have a lead on a pair of ML-1C's at a price I can't say no to. I figure I can pick up the EQ from Audio Classics, but what I'm concerned about is the power requirements needed to get the right sound from them. I'd be powering them with a newly recapped MC2505. Would this amp be powerful enough to drive them or would I need at least a 2105?

 

[Bijan]

Hello mwo1268,

I run mine with a 2205, and they sound great.

I will say that, after redoing the crossovers in mine, I have yet to hook up my MQ101. I would like to hook it up at some point to see if I can improve my sound. I know it'll look great even if it's set flat.

 

[c_dk]

Hi everyone, I know this is an old thread, but I have a lead on a pair of ML-1C's at a price I can't say no to. I figure I can pick up the EQ from Audio Classics, but what I'm concerned about is the power requirements needed to get the right sound from them. I'd be powering them with a newly recapped MC2505. Would this amp be powerful enough to drive them or would I need at least a 2105?

Thousands of ML1speakers were sold with a non power guard 50,60 or 70 watt amp; hundreds, (maybe thousands) of them had issues with burnt dome midrange drivers.

The next generation XRs could have similar issues.

The MQxxx equalizers make the chance of a problem worse by asking the amp for even more power to boost the bass level.

Gordon Gow stated that developing the patented PG circuitry saved the company much money in warranty claims for burnt drivers.

Buyer and seller beware.....the domes are mostly likely damaged if not used with a PG equipped amp.

 

[tewtj]

I have ML1C's being driven by a McIntosh 7100. Prior to the 7100 I used a Hafler DH200. Before the Hafler was a Nikko Alpha 1. All in all I have gone down in power slightly, but love the sound from these speakers. I am very lucky- I was able to modify with the help of Audio Classics the mid & highs with the supplemental crossover and Morel domes, it was a super fun project that makes these speakers, with the 102 EQ, sound absolutely amazing to me.

 

[RainDog911]

tewtj, any chance you can share the model number off the Morel domes?

 

[RainDog911]

mwo1268 - there are a pair of ML-1C crossovers on eBay with a BIN price of $38 you may want to look at. When I reworked the XOs in my XR-7s, I bought a second set so I could keep the originals intact.

 

[c_dk]

The Morel domes were standard fare from Parts Express. RR provided a add on crossover board to integrate them into the 8 inch midrange and woofer.

To get them to sound at all near a modern row 18 design let alone a more normal for today's listener row 10, all his dropping resistors needed to be removed. We measured the frequency above 5KHz going down to -15 dB at 10 KHz. Pulling out the resistors the response improved, but still unacceptable (in my judgement) to -10dB at 10KHz.

This was measured with my McIntosh AA2 analyser.

 

[tewtj]

Yes, Morel MDM55 and MDT22. I tried to embed a couple of photos....

OLD-NEW

• tewtj
• May 14, 2017

New-xover

• tewtj
• May 14, 2017

Installed

• tewtj
• May 14, 2017

OLD-NEW

• tewtj
• May 14, 2017

 

[w5hro]

An MQ101 is worth several times that alone.

I recently found an MQ-101 still factory sealed in the box. A guy had it in his closet for 40+ years. I'm using it with my MAC-1700 receiver and ML-1C speakers. The speakers do need the MQ-101 to get full response. Makes all the difference in the world. However, you must leave the ML-1C crossover component values the same if you replace them otherwise the MQ-101 wont do it's job correctly.

 

[w5hro]

By the way, there are also two different versions of the crossovers. The original version only had 4 coils, then the later version added the 5th coil for that high-end mid-range dome, LS3. You should always update them by adding the 5th coil and components.

The original 4 coil version at the bottom of the pic.


The final version block diagram below with the 5th coil added.


The final version schematic below with the 5th coil added.

 

[c_dk]

Well, a few weeks ago I completed my 4 year ongoing ML1 revision, upgrade? project.

Basic goals were to keep the parts cost below $100.00. RR's upgrade exceeded the resale value of a speaker pair making it a questionable upgrade from a cost standpoint IMHO, as well as had his typical back of the hall muted high frequency sound profile.

Explore the effects of the grille and cabinet surfaces reflecting the mid and high frequency wave fronts. Interstitial experimenting going back to discussions Gregory and I had many years ago.

Hope to find reliable basic replacement domes for the long time troublesome mid domes. Parts express came through.....

Update the sound profile to reflect the more modern "brighter" closer to the front sound.

I believe I was successful with this project so the speakers and a Tandberg TR2060 have been packed up with my son on his return to Omaha for him to use while he completes his studies.

Still have one more pair to experiment with but since those cabinets suffered much more cabinet abuse they will need refinishing as well as sound updating.