New Forte III "nerfed"

fernarias

fernarias

Super Member
So I'm still up (don't ask) and I get this email from Kipsch about the new Forte III. Interested, I opened it up. Great special edition in colors I don't like for 2000 each. No info on the regular edition, I was wondering if pricing would be better. But behold, the specs are up. I know the specs for the I and the II (since they've always been my favorites) so I check and I have immediate disappointment. They "nerfed" the speakers.

I don't know how they did it, 12 in woofer check, new midrange design with titanium drivers (hopefully big magnets and not like the Heresy) check, the Heresy tweeter (what I expected) check and the large 15 in passive check. So everything the same as the IIs (don't expect the midrange to be much better since new horn designs is just a marketing ploy) except the frequency range. The ones go from 32hz to 20khz and I can verify with my 20 year old ears back in 85 that you can hear the difference in bass and only the Klipschorns went lower. The IIs also go from 32hz to 20khz but have better efficiency at 99 db at 1 watt vs 98 db for the Is. The new 2000 dollar III only go from 38hz to 20khz with the same efficiency as the IIs.

Why would I spend 4000 for a speaker that is not the Forte that I have always loved??? I'm guessing that they didn't want to the Forte to compete with the Cornwall nor the La Scala which sell for more but the Forte was always better on specs and people bought what sounded good to them. I would like to hear them but I would like to hear them next to a Forte I and then laugh at the Klipsch staff. Boo for Voxx.
 
A side by side comparison with the new model vs the previous models would be the only way to tell the actual differences (if much of any at all). Perhaps the specifications of the previous models were "ambitious" or "overstated", and the specifications for the new model are a more accurate representation of all of the Forte models? Also, do the all of the three models specifications have the same +/- dB tolerance for the stated frequency response range? I can take any given speaker rated at (lets just say) 50Hz-20KHz +/- 3 dB, and re-rate it (again, lets just say) 38Hz-27KHz +/- 6 dB and not be misrepresenting anything.
 
Makes you think hard about a pre-owned pair of Cornwalls. With the money saved you would be able to have Bob update the crossovers and buy the latest T-35 replacements. But for current folks, a great looking speaker with a small foot print and high efficiency which allows you to save big money on amplifiers. And don't compromise, buy great electronics for your Klipsch speakers. And look at the purchase as an investment in long term enjoyment for you and the family.
 
I think people are glad they are putting these back into production. I think they look great. They've also decreased the depth of the cabinet while retaining the specs. This makes them more room friendly. Nice that Titanium diaphragms are now standard as well. I'm not sure why you have decided that the re-designed mid horn will have no effect. The tractix horn certainly did in the Forte II.

I think too that a lot of people are getting tired of thin towers with domes n cones, the vintage designs are appealing and now you don't have to buy a 25 yo loudspeaker. Tekton is another example of a large, high efficiency speaker getting popular.
 
savatage1973 said:
A side by side comparison with the new model vs the previous models would be the only way to tell the actual differences (if much of any at all). Perhaps the specifications of the previous models were "ambitious" or "overstated", and the specifications for the new model are a more accurate representation of all of the Forte models? Also, do the all of the three models specifications have the same +/- dB tolerance for the stated frequency response range? I can take any given speaker rated at (lets just say) 50Hz-20KHz +/- 3 dB, and re-rate it (again, lets just say) 38Hz-27KHz +/- 6 dB and not be misrepresenting anything.
Click to expand...
You can hear the difference between the Fortes and the Chorus II (Chorus II have the same frequency response as the new Fortes) and I actually have more trust in Klipsch in 1985 than in Klipsch with Voxx parent. Even the Quartets have better specs than the new Forte.
 
fredgarvin said:
I think people are glad they are putting these back into production. I think they look great. They've also decreased the depth of the cabinet while retaining the specs. This makes them more room friendly. Nice that Titanium diaphragms are now standard as well. I'm not sure why you have decided that the re-designed mid horn will have no effect. The tractix horn certainly did in the Forte II.

I think too that a lot of people are getting tired of thin towers with domes n cones, the vintage designs are appealing and now you don't have to buy a 25 yo loudspeaker. Tekton is another example of a large, high efficiency speaker getting popular.
Click to expand...

The specs are not the same, that's what this thread is about but I think you figured out why it doesn't match. The smaller cabinet would give it less bass, good job.

As for the tactrix horn, side by side the I and II sound the same. If you look at the frequency response graph, the I are smoother along it's rated bandwith (same with the Chorus II). The II have a more choppy frequency response and a bump at the low end (same as the Quartets).
 
fernarias said:
Why would I spend 4000 for a speaker that is not the Forte that I have always loved??? I'm guessing that they didn't want to the Forte to compete with the Cornwall nor the La Scala which sell for more but the Forte was always better on specs and people bought what sounded good to them. I would like to hear them but I would like to hear them next to a Forte I and then laugh at the Klipsch staff. Boo for Voxx.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you've already made up your mind that the Forte III won't be as good. Roy Delgado did the work on the new design, and I thought he was with Klipsch when they released the original.
 
fernarias said:
The specs are not the same, that's what this thread is about but I think you figured out why it doesn't match. The smaller cabinet would give it less bass, good job.

As for the tactrix horn, side by side the I and II sound the same. If you look at the frequency response graph, the I are smoother along it's rated bandwith (same with the Chorus II). The II have a more choppy frequency response and a bump at the low end (same as the Quartets).
Click to expand...
I missed that, rated down to 38hz now. That is too bad. I don't share your cynicism about the new mids. Nor is a db in sensitivity a problem for me.
 
you guys can re tune a set of Forte 3 by adding some extra weight to the passive radiators it's no big deal. I am sure that the new mid horn is a fine piece, that's what Roy does best and his upgrades to the H3 and CW3 networks have been accepted by all as an improvement. Thing is you could make all these changes to a set of Forte or Forte 2 for less than the 1/4 of the cost of a new pair of Forte 3. Your money you decide. Someone needs to talk Bob Crites into making a two way 12" based design and or say a conversion kit for Forte(s) with a 30 Hz bottom end response.
 
I'm pretty sure the same people who buy new Heresy III for $2,000 would love to buy new Forte III for $4,400. Gorgeous Forte III is much better deal for the money.

As for specs, I don't put any weight on this; look no further than Klipsch La Scala and Belle that plays beautifully, no matter of specs.
 
I have owned late model Heresy and two sets of H3. Why not buy a set of H3 and build a larger cabinet and install a real (larger) mid horn. What do you guys think a Forte is?
 
ymarko said:
I'm pretty sure the same people who buy new Heresy III for $2,000 would love to buy new Forte III for $4,400. Gorgeous Forte III is much better deal for the money.

As for specs, I don't put any weight on this; look no further than Klipsch La Scala and Belle that plays beautifully, no matter of specs.
Click to expand...
The specs for the La Scala and the Belles describe exactly the way they sound so I don't understand what you mean. The specs are for comparison and the new Forte III, according to the specs, don't go down beyond 38Hz. I'm asking why since the IIs and the Is go down to 32Hz and I can hear, even today as I did in 85, that the bass is lower than the Cornwalls, Chorus, La Scala, Belle, Heresy. The entire heritage line except for the Klipschorns and I really liked that about the Forte. If Klipsch is going to make a III it should be better than the IIs and the Is. That's all I'm saying. They are definitely more expensive.
 
moray james said:
I have owned late model Heresy and two sets of H3. Why not buy a set of H3 and build a larger cabinet and install a real (larger) mid horn. What do you guys think a Forte is?
Click to expand...
This has been my thought process, I have two Heresy III upgrades kits, I have two 15 in passives and two 12 in. passives, alk crossovers and all I need is to build the cabinets.
 
I'd contemplated buying a pair of the Forte 3's but I just don't see them sounding $3500+ better than the $500 I have in a pair of Epic CF-3's. Even being able to get the F3's at cost, I still can't justify it. So, I'll continue to build my Belle clones since I have all of the parts ready to go and keep my CF-3's. For the new buyers, and those with the pockets deep enough to do so, I feel like they will be a great pair of speakers in the grand scheme of what all is out there in the market today. But I've not heard them.

Just for comparison, the CF-3's are rated from 35hz to 20khz +/- 3db and are 100db/1-watt "rated". On sheet anyway. 41" tall and 102lbs. They are solid.
 
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fredgarvin said:
I missed that, rated down to 38hz now. That is too bad. I don't share your cynicism about the new mids. Nor is a db in sensitivity a problem for me.
Click to expand...

I agree, that the bass extension is a little disappointing. When you get to speakers that efficient, a single dB here and there is pretty insignificant.
 
The forte(s) actually do go lower than a Khorn does (39Hz) but the larger Khorn driver (15") combined with the corner loading result in more air being moved so there is a lot more impact than what the smaller 12" woofer in the Forte(s) can muster. There has been in the past so much fudging of response numbers (by all manufacturers) that I would not be surprise to find the Forte 3 is/has the same or much the same bottom end response as the Forte(s) have it is likely just a more truthful number that we are seeing now. I think that before people write them off they should listen to a pair. It won't take much time for user feedback to put this question to rest one way or the other. Either way a re tuned set of Forte can go pretty low so you guys have lots of options.
 
Somewhere over at the Klipsch forum I read Roy D's response regarding the 38hz rating. Paraphrasing he said something like ...It isn't the speaker's low extension that has changed. The new numbers reflect the current more accurate testing process.

I'll find out soon enough.
 
Yeah, these "concerns" expressed about a 6hz difference in specs is premature, and perhaps superfluous. They reveal more about the way some enthusiasts think than they do about the speakers themselves, imo. Looking at a number on a sheet is fine, but if you are unaware how the speakers were measured... is this anechoic or 'typical' in-room performance? Has the methodology changed? And to compare that with numbers from 30 years ago without knowing... well, to assume the results are directly comparable invites misconception.

However, those kinds of issues are often less impactful on actual bass response than the size and shape of the room, and placement of the speaker within it, imo. Part of the issue is the thinking that because a spec sheet provides xxhz as the -3db point that "the speaker cuts off" at that frequency. As if it were a brick-wall filter. Yes, specs do help provide useful information, but they don't predict how a given speaker will perform in the place you plan to put them.

The upshot, even if all else is indeed equal and the specs of both eras correct and derived the same way, is that either one could sound great in your spot - or either one could sound better than the other due to room effects. That is why it is always best to audition in your home, and we all miss the days of brick and mortar when a good dealer would let you try out speakers that way. These days most of us have to roll the dice, to some extent. (Who really wants to have to rebox a speaker and hassle with return shipment?)
 
The Forte III is in the hands of the public as of yesterday. There was a post on the Klipsch forums with unboxing photos yesterday. They look fantastic.
 
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