Good Question: What do you consider to be high end vintage gear?

This is a speaker that has intrigued me quite a bit from time to time. Julian Hirsch reviewed it for High Fidelity in '67 and said it was the best-sounding, most-natural speaker he had ever heard. A significant boast at that period in time, when you consider Rectilinear's competition in 1967. It's no surprise that Rectilinear fans are usually Wharfedale fans as well and vice versa, as both brands shared many common characteristics (The Rectilinear III and the W90 are both 6-driver bass-reflex systems with a very-wide dispersion and soundstage).

One thing I've noticed is, there are clearly many different perceptions of "natural, uncolored" sound, depending on who you talk to. Take AR for instance. The AR3 and AR3a have a powerful kick to the bass. Some consider it to be unnatural in a "larger than life" sort of way (Gilbert Briggs did). Wharfedale, on the other hand, had a very-laid-back bass response, and yet, there are those out there who consider them to be "colored and unnatural". Rectilinear seems to be somewhere in between the two. A fan of the Yamaha NS models would probably take issue with the sound of Wharfedale, AR, AND Rectilinear. Everybody's perception is a little different, which I definitely feel is a good thing, as it keeps us from being a planet full of robot-like fans of Stepford-fi. Perish the thought.

I have tremendous respect for Julian Hirsch. He turned me on to my first hifi system in an article on "Best Budget Systems." It consisted of KLH 6 speakers, a Lafayette receiver and a Dual turntable. (I forget the models.) He informed a whole generation about the difference between real hifi and crap.

I still miss those KLH 6 speakers. I could never afford the AR3A speakers. In the early 70s, for many, the AR3A speakers were the holy grail. I did have a pair of Rectilinear speakers but I don't remember the model. I used them with the KLHs for a 4 channel system.
 
I don't know, but my little 1710W seems to get some high praise for it's tube-driven sound, which is why I plan to integrate it into my main system. Obviously, Studer and Revox were the creme de la creme of record/playback decks in the recording industry, but I have still been told by many a tube aficionado that Akai made some damn-nice reel.

Tube + tube + tube for the win.

I think the Teac 3340s was high end enough for McCartney to mix SGT Pepper's, at least I think I read it somewhere.
 
My Pioneer Spec-1 and Spec-2 have served me faithfully for the last 40+ years. Although one audiophile once quipped to me that the only thing on a Spec-1 pre-amp that was any good was the stepped volume control.

I have also enjoyed my Magenpans and Dhalquist DQ-10's.
 
JVC offered a very high end combo in the early 80's, the M-L and P-L10 amp and preampIMG_0906.JPG (amp shown.)
And let us not forget Stax. They produced some of the best vintage high end gear from 1976-1990. IMG_0855.JPG (DMA-X2 shown.)
Add in the Onkyo M-510
IMG_0969.JPG
 
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Why do we have to come up with a definition for what's high end and what isn't.If someone wants to talk about a piece of gear that they feel is high end and doesn't fit the definition, so what.If I like it or know anything about it I'll chime in.Maybe we'll learn something about a piece that really should be here that we didn't think so before.
 
Let me tell you about a Bose 901. At 22 watts rms it will shut down due to over heating in less than 10 minutes and its distortion can't be read over 7000 Hz because the unit will instantly shut down at full power. The pre-amp has its short comings, too. Yamaha has never built a top of the line piece.

Vintage means tubes, and tubes means Mcintosh, Marantz, and a few Citation Pieces. 95 % of the speakers you chose are dynamically challenged, so take them off the list. EV Patricin, JBL Harkness and Paragon, Altec Carmel and Capistrano, Bozak B400 and B410/310 Concert Grands, Klipsch Kornerhorns with a Cornwall center were great live concert reproducers. Don't forget the largest Tannoy . Frazier made some great ugly speakers. AR speakers were just a fad, but couldn't be considered being capable of reaching live performance parameters. Most speakers today are still dynamically challenged and most of the ones that aren't require 1000 watts. Something is just wrong. You'd think after 60 years or so speaker manufacturers would start being honest with the Hifi consumer. To replicate live performance a minimum of 115 db peaks is required. That requires 400 watts for a 90 db sensitivity rated common speaker of today. $$$$$$$$$$$$ and don't for get you want less than 2 % distortion. I mean folks are worried about amps with less than .02% distortion, you would think they would demand the same from their loudspeakers. It just proves what a sharp marketing department can sell th the general consumer. Though I can appreciate the sound of a Martin Logan or Manaplanar, even the fabulous KlH 9s in multiple pairs, when it comes to producing live concert levels they are just toys.

Most HT systems are a poor representation and can't come close to levels generated in movie houses let alone actual every day listening experience. A slammed door on a car rr trunk lid will give most HT systems a heart attack. Sound created my Clint Eastwoods most powerful handgun can't be equaled or tolerated in the home. A pipe bomb or a 80 mm Howitzer just isn't possible. Ever stood at the end of a runway when the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds take off?
 
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... Ever stood at the end of a runway when the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds take off?


No, but I have when B-52s and B-1Bs were doing alert takeoffs.

And, I had the job of standing or laying literally inches from jet engines at full power during my time in AF as a Jet Engine Mechanic. When the B-1Bs came in the technology changed a bit. But, for the B-52 and KC-135 engines, a run at the test cell where I worked involved hand checking the engines for air leaks. And, for trim adjustments, simply old school throw down a creeper and scoot under the engine at full power and turn the trim screw with a plain old screwdriver.

To compare that to any stereo system is quite a stretch. We never got into the specifics of horsepower and all that, but I've seen reference to the typical engine used on a B-52 as being around 20,000 horsepower equivalent (and by today's standards that's a pretty small jet engine). There are eight of them on a B-52. Assuming for discussion the horsepower thing is reasonably accurate, that's 160,000 horsepower or almost 120 millon watts. :)
 
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Let me tell you about a Bose 901. At 22 watts rms it will shut down due to over heating in less than 10 minutes and its distortion can't be read over 7000 Hz because the unit will instantly shut down at full power. The pre-amp has its short comings, too. Yamaha has never built a top of the line piece.

Vintage means tubes, and tubes means Mcintosh, Marantz, and a few Citation Pieces. 95 % of the speakers you chose are dynamically challenged, so take them off the list. EV Patricin, JBL Harkness and Paragon, Altec Carmel and Capistrano, Bozak B400 and B410/310 Concert Grands, Klipsch Kornerhorns with a Cornwall center were great live concert reproducers. Don't forget the largest Tannoy . Frazier made some great ugly speakers. AR speakers were just a fad, but couldn't be considered being capable of reaching live performance parameters. Most speakers today are still dynamically challenged and most of the ones that aren't require 1000 watts. Something is just wrong. You'd think after 60 years or so speaker manufacturers would start being honest with the Hifi consumer. To replicate live performance a minimum of 115 db peaks is required. That requires 400 watts for a 90 db sensitivity rated common speaker of today. $$$$$$$$$$$$ and don't for get you want less than 2 % distortion. I mean folks are worried about amps with less than .02% distortion, you would think they would demand the same from their loudspeakers. It just proves what a sharp marketing department can sell th the general consumer. Though I can appreciate the sound of a Martin Logan or Manaplanar, even the fabulous KlH 9s in multiple pairs, when it comes to producing live concert levels they are just toys.

Most HT systems are a poor representation and can't come close to levels generated in movie houses let alone actual every day listening experience. A slammed door on a car rr trunk lid will give most HT systems a heart attack. Sound created my Clint Eastwoods most powerful handgun can't be equaled or tolerated in the home. A pipe bomb or a 80 mm Howitzer just isn't possible. Ever stood at the end of a runway when the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds take off?
I don't know about that, But my Sony STR-DA9000ES does a damn good job of that.
 
No Bang&Olufsen yet in this thread? :idea:

There is a lot of high end vintage Beo stuff - here are some of them:

Beogram 4000 (4002/4004/6000)
Beomaster 6000 (the first series)
Beomaster 4400
Beovox 5000
Beolab 5000 (a real real Collector's item, I don't have it...:( )

... and so on and on and on...
 
JBL 4355. The last 43xx series. Holy grail. :jump:

lBI76PF.jpg
 
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Hello,

I would take for sure a Luxman amp before about 1985. Not the newer black versions, I found them less good than the older ones. Ofcourse an old amp often needs to re-caped. New capacitors and maybe some other stuff. But the value often only gets higher.

I would take for real vintage the:

Luxman L507 + Kef Concerto or KEF Cadenza (1973)

Some newer superb vintage:

Luxman L430 + KEF Cantata or smaller KEF Calinda.

Tom W.
 
I looked at this new forum and realized nobody has posted here yet! :scratch2:

Awesome! I get to be the first! :banana::banana::banana:

I’m changing this around a little. I’ve decided to leave out turntables because there are already a few good threads on them. I am also leaving out integrated amps because I don't want to go down that road. If you want to post integrated amps, please create a new thread. If you disagree with any items I list, I would be interested in knowing why, although that may not change anything, it is good to have opposing views. I am also being very specific. Only brand and model numbers will go on the list. I will post the update here at the beginning and also at the time I post it.

Please supply the model and year of manufacture when you list something. This will make it easier for me to tabulate, which is a lot of work.

To me, high end audio is about quality build and quality sound. I used to work for DEC, and learned to love well designed and well built equipment. And there are degrees. I look at my Bose 1801 and I think it is a well designed, well built unit with a few funnies, like plastic controls. I have been tempted to get duplicate McIntosh controls from a C32 and use them instead. Similar styling, but the Mc controls are mostly metal. I still think the 1801 is a high end unit though.

And in terms of who is right and who is wrong on this thread, I have no idea. And if I have left something out, that is very possible. Not to slight any product or person, but I am only human.

I am currently at post #95. I will update this number as I go.


Preamps

Bose 4401
Kenwood Supreme 700C
Luxman CL-35 III preamp
McIntosh C26
McIntosh C28
McIntosh C32
Threshold T2 preamp
Yamaha C-1
Yamaha CX-10000 control amplifier

Power Amps

Bose 1801
ESS Eclipse power amp
Great American Sound (G.A.S.) Ampzilla
Great American Sound (G.A.S.) Son of Ampzilla
Harman Kardon Citation
JVC JM-S7
Kenwood Supreme 700M
Kenwood L-09M
Kenwood L-07M
Luxman MB-3045 tube amp
Luxman A3000 tube amp
McIntosh MC2105,
McIntosh MC2300,
Onkyo grand integra m-510
Quicksilver M135
Threshold S/500 Stasis
Threshold SA-4e amp
Threshold S-550e amp
Yamaha B-1
Yamaha MX-10000

Speakers

Altec Barcelona
Altec-Lansing Model 19
Celestion Ditton 66
Dahlquist DQ-10
Dahlquist DQ-20
Dahlquist DQ-30
ESS AMT 1aM speakers
ET LFT speakers
Fisher XP-18
Infinity IRS Betas
JBL L300's
Kef Concerto
Kef 107
Kef 105
Kef 104/2
KLH Model Nine Electrostatics
Martin-Logan CLS.
Nestorovic Labs System 12
Nestorovic Labs System 16
Quad ESL 57
Rogers LS3/5a
Speakerlab 50s
Wharfedale W90
Wharfedale SFB/3
Wharfedale Airedale
Yamaha NSX-10000 speakers
Yamaha GF1

Please provide Feedback.
How about the Pioneer HPM 200s? I own a set and am mesmerized everytime I sit down and listen. There are songs I never liked until I heard them on these 200s.
Where would the first generation realistic mach ones fit in? Im talking the 40-4024s. I also own a set. Maybe not high end like a hpm 200, but definitely needs recognition. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.
 
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