I am going to be moving probably late this year/early next year, and I will be in a smaller place, and I was wondering if there is a good all in one turntable that is made? Something like the Crosley type collegiate players? Only NOT a Crosley haha, I know that Crosley's are basically junk, but I was wondering does anyone make a good turntable like they used to make in the 50's or maybe 60's of those portable smaller turntables that had a speaker built in? I remember using these in school, and they were well made, not like the garbage they make today. Surely someone in the world still makes these quality turntables today?
are there any good all in one turntables?
- Thread starter Jason1979
- Start date
I don't have any direct experience, but I'd be tempted to give something like this a try over most contemporary systems:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Har...ffdba78&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=322573859166
You will probably not find a very good turntable with any such system, but HK did make solid, nice sounding equipment.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Har...ffdba78&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=322573859166
You will probably not find a very good turntable with any such system, but HK did make solid, nice sounding equipment.
tnsilver
Stereo Puppy
The one in the link actually carries a Garrard auto changer, but strangely enough it more than resembles the BSR landmark changer 1029 (or one of it's dozen variants).
It makes me wonder if the two British rival audio gear mfgr's collaborated in a way by which Garrard ended up re-badging a turntable that appears to come straight out of
the Birmingham plant.
In any case, this is the exact type of all-in-one systems that gave them their bad reputation. These turntables (at least the BSR's) are notoriously jerky and their speed controls +
record size adjustment levers would almost always cause the tonearm to skip when used. The tonearm itself came equipped with a number of varying headshells, most of which,
until the mid 70's included a ceramic cart. Not a very high end table - to say the least.
On the bright side, the models that included metal gears and cams (as opposed to the nylon parts variants) are extremely durable and typically require just the cleaning of the old
frozen grease they used back then, to get them up and running. This is quite amazing for a 50 y/o complex mechanical device - but the all-in-one systems carrying them (Fisher, Sylvania,
GE, etc...) were generally the bottom of the barrel, yet very common regardless.
In general, an all-in-one system that included an AM/FM stereo receiver, a tape recorder deck, a turntable, pre-amp and amp was simply too complex for the manufacturer to provide
enough attention to each component, for the entire system to qualify as "high-end". It was just gonna end up too expensive, which would have defeated the purpose of being an affordable
consumer electronics home appliance and save the average Joe the trouble of running through compatibility specs trying to match stereo components in the living room.
Yet, there are very few exceptions that I am aware of and some of the "elite" all-in-one stereo systems from the 70's seem to be a part of an evolving competition among mfgr's
that was probably inspired by the "monster receiver wars" of the 70's. They included higher end turntables, digital tuners, better tape decks, touch buttons and various shiny & flashing
LED indicators and VU meters. They were not "high-end", but they sure appeared to be and they looked expensive. Such was the National Panasonic SG 6070.
This was a 50 pounder end of era (70's) pinnacle all-in-one system with a Technics (national) turntable and almost 50W p/c amplification. It had a sensitive stereo tuner and, as you can see,
all the buzzes and bells a 70's stereo must have. This was certainly more than average and was probably "good". Yet... despite a hefty toroidal transformer at the heart of the power supply,
the amplifier was based on a pair of Sanyo STK chips (as opposed to a designated driver amp. pcb). This was a tell tale sign of... mmm... well, skimping and bean counting on the mfgr side.
No one likes those hard-to-find STK replacements today any better than they liked the tend-to-overheat-and-die devices back then. So, no! Not high-end, but probably "good-enough".
I made a quick search on google and found a similar VE thread where this popped up:
This, apparently, is a Salora 3001 system. It's from Finland, the thread reports. It look kind of minimalistic, but what caught my eye, is the Thorens TD-160 turntable on top.
I don't know about the Salora, but the TT is more than the average you'd find on this type of systems. Way more than average. This is actually an excellent turntable.
The same person who uploaded this picture reports an "Elgar" mfgr from the UK who used a TD-150 turntable and Goodman's amplifiers in their all-in-one stereo.
Can't be too bad - if you ask me.
It makes me wonder if the two British rival audio gear mfgr's collaborated in a way by which Garrard ended up re-badging a turntable that appears to come straight out of
the Birmingham plant.
In any case, this is the exact type of all-in-one systems that gave them their bad reputation. These turntables (at least the BSR's) are notoriously jerky and their speed controls +
record size adjustment levers would almost always cause the tonearm to skip when used. The tonearm itself came equipped with a number of varying headshells, most of which,
until the mid 70's included a ceramic cart. Not a very high end table - to say the least.
On the bright side, the models that included metal gears and cams (as opposed to the nylon parts variants) are extremely durable and typically require just the cleaning of the old
frozen grease they used back then, to get them up and running. This is quite amazing for a 50 y/o complex mechanical device - but the all-in-one systems carrying them (Fisher, Sylvania,
GE, etc...) were generally the bottom of the barrel, yet very common regardless.
In general, an all-in-one system that included an AM/FM stereo receiver, a tape recorder deck, a turntable, pre-amp and amp was simply too complex for the manufacturer to provide
enough attention to each component, for the entire system to qualify as "high-end". It was just gonna end up too expensive, which would have defeated the purpose of being an affordable
consumer electronics home appliance and save the average Joe the trouble of running through compatibility specs trying to match stereo components in the living room.
Yet, there are very few exceptions that I am aware of and some of the "elite" all-in-one stereo systems from the 70's seem to be a part of an evolving competition among mfgr's
that was probably inspired by the "monster receiver wars" of the 70's. They included higher end turntables, digital tuners, better tape decks, touch buttons and various shiny & flashing
LED indicators and VU meters. They were not "high-end", but they sure appeared to be and they looked expensive. Such was the National Panasonic SG 6070.
This was a 50 pounder end of era (70's) pinnacle all-in-one system with a Technics (national) turntable and almost 50W p/c amplification. It had a sensitive stereo tuner and, as you can see,
all the buzzes and bells a 70's stereo must have. This was certainly more than average and was probably "good". Yet... despite a hefty toroidal transformer at the heart of the power supply,
the amplifier was based on a pair of Sanyo STK chips (as opposed to a designated driver amp. pcb). This was a tell tale sign of... mmm... well, skimping and bean counting on the mfgr side.
No one likes those hard-to-find STK replacements today any better than they liked the tend-to-overheat-and-die devices back then. So, no! Not high-end, but probably "good-enough".
I made a quick search on google and found a similar VE thread where this popped up:
This, apparently, is a Salora 3001 system. It's from Finland, the thread reports. It look kind of minimalistic, but what caught my eye, is the Thorens TD-160 turntable on top.
I don't know about the Salora, but the TT is more than the average you'd find on this type of systems. Way more than average. This is actually an excellent turntable.
The same person who uploaded this picture reports an "Elgar" mfgr from the UK who used a TD-150 turntable and Goodman's amplifiers in their all-in-one stereo.
Can't be too bad - if you ask me.
muovimies
Super Member
I don't think there are any good all-in-ones made these days, if you really want one then better look for a vintage unit. There were plenty good ones made in Europe in the 70s, no idea what it was like in the States. Something with a Dual turntable might be a pretty safe bet.
The above mentioned Salora is a good example of a way above average all-in-one, everyone knows the Thorens, and the receiver part is their model 2000 (which by itself is a rather cool looking sleek little unit especially in palisander finish), which is a pretty decent for an early 70s receiver if you don't need huge amounts of power.
If looking at modern stuff, the boxes can get really small these days, so a decent TT + phono pre + class-D amp + nice little bookshelf speakers won't really take much space and would be easily available in the used market. Alternatively you could skip the amp and get active speakers, or look for a low powered vintage amp with a phono and stack the TT above it. Generally putting stuff on amp/receiver is not a good idea for several reasons, but with the low powered stuff heat is usually not a concern and it can save space in some situations.
The above mentioned Salora is a good example of a way above average all-in-one, everyone knows the Thorens, and the receiver part is their model 2000 (which by itself is a rather cool looking sleek little unit especially in palisander finish), which is a pretty decent for an early 70s receiver if you don't need huge amounts of power.
If looking at modern stuff, the boxes can get really small these days, so a decent TT + phono pre + class-D amp + nice little bookshelf speakers won't really take much space and would be easily available in the used market. Alternatively you could skip the amp and get active speakers, or look for a low powered vintage amp with a phono and stack the TT above it. Generally putting stuff on amp/receiver is not a good idea for several reasons, but with the low powered stuff heat is usually not a concern and it can save space in some situations.
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
School phonos in the USA were with few exceptions lowest bidder junk. The Voice Of Music models save for the cheapest one, and the high end tube Newcomb transcription player with the GE VR II cartridge the main US exceptions to the rule which were decent. Also, remember the Astatic 89T PowerPoint cartridges are 3 volts, very low compliance, and unfit for Stereo record needs and long record life, and $30 every time you wear out the stylus. Steep replacement prices when a Shure M 44-7 stylus costs that or little more. Which lasts longer, tracks at 2 grams well, and is of professional standard.
Compact all in ones of quality were around in the early 1960's to late 1960's like the Shure, the Harman-Kardon, the KLH, and a few others but the good ones were not cheap. In that era, those were around $300 up items.
By the early 1970's the all in one in the USA was sold mainly to low budget customers and the less educated. Or youth market. And $200 or a bit above what the market would bear.
Out of the radio/TV set companies Magnavox, Zenith Radio Corp, Packard-Bell, and Sylvania made some good ones in the middle to late 1960's which had decent changers and tracked at reasonable pressures. Remember, too that the console stereo market collapsed to the cheaper goods in the same era also. Quality was not cheap then, and nobody's making quality all in ones anymore.
It would cost you today at least $1,200 or more for one to be made today. Nobody makes a changer today, and there's nobody who even makes a good single play automatic even close to what existed into 1980. By 1967, the quality phono market went separates. And gradually the compact market in the USA went cost cut.
Europe and Japan had much better compact systems available and were more willing to pay for quality in that category. This category there would extend to the Bang and Olufsen Beomaster/Beogram systems.
My own feelings is: If you want a decent record player in one box, the Voice Of Music school phono, or a Shure would be the best available. A 1960's Zenith phono with Micro-Touch would also be very fine or the Magnavox. But budget for repairs and the turntable or changer overhauled. As Crosley Collegiate alternatives those can be recommended.
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My patents purchased a newer all in one, was teac maybe? Sounds alright, but I've yet to see any with replaceable cartridges.
Altec tried to make an all in one, and succeeded brilliantly. The 911 and 912 are excellent systems, IF you can find one. They came with sl95b tables. It's the only low power unit I've ever heard that was able to run my dq10s. I've also only ever seen one...
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/altec-lansing-911a
Altec tried to make an all in one, and succeeded brilliantly. The 911 and 912 are excellent systems, IF you can find one. They came with sl95b tables. It's the only low power unit I've ever heard that was able to run my dq10s. I've also only ever seen one...
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/altec-lansing-911a
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Alternatively, a decent turntable, with a smallform factor phono stage, or even an inboard one, into a pair of active speakers would do the trick, if you didn't need radio, or another source. A source selector would handle that duty if you wanted to add another source.
Sony made one similar to the 6020 as well. Never made it to the states as far as I could find. It used one of their TOTL tables and a nice receiver.The one in the link actually carries a Garrard auto changer, but strangely enough it more than resembles the BSR landmark changer 1029 (or one of it's dozen variants).
It makes me wonder if the two British rival audio gear mfgr's collaborated in a way by which Garrard ended up re-badging a turntable that appears to come straight out of
the Birmingham plant.
In any case, this is the exact type of all-in-one systems that gave them their bad reputation. These turntables (at least the BSR's) are notoriously jerky and their speed controls +
record size adjustment levers would almost always cause the tonearm to skip when used. The tonearm itself came equipped with a number of varying headshells, most of which,
until the mid 70's included a ceramic cart. Not a very high end table - to say the least.
On the bright side, the models that included metal gears and cams (as opposed to the nylon parts variants) are extremely durable and typically require just the cleaning of the old
frozen grease they used back then, to get them up and running. This is quite amazing for a 50 y/o complex mechanical device - but the all-in-one systems carrying them (Fisher, Sylvania,
GE, etc...) were generally the bottom of the barrel, yet very common regardless.
In general, an all-in-one system that included an AM/FM stereo receiver, a tape recorder deck, a turntable, pre-amp and amp was simply too complex for the manufacturer to provide
enough attention to each component, for the entire system to qualify as "high-end". It was just gonna end up too expensive, which would have defeated the purpose of being an affordable
consumer electronics home appliance and save the average Joe the trouble of running through compatibility specs trying to match stereo components in the living room.
Yet, there are very few exceptions that I am aware of and some of the "elite" all-in-one stereo systems from the 70's seem to be a part of an evolving competition among mfgr's
that was probably inspired by the "monster receiver wars" of the 70's. They included higher end turntables, digital tuners, better tape decks, touch buttons and various shiny & flashing
LED indicators and VU meters. They were not "high-end", but they sure appeared to be and they looked expensive. Such was the National Panasonic SG 6070.
This was a 50 pounder end of era (70's) pinnacle all-in-one system with a Technics (national) turntable and almost 50W p/c amplification. It had a sensitive stereo tuner and, as you can see,
all the buzzes and bells a 70's stereo must have. This was certainly more than average and was probably "good". Yet... despite a hefty toroidal transformer at the heart of the power supply,
the amplifier was based on a pair of Sanyo STK chips (as opposed to a designated driver amp. pcb). This was a tell tale sign of... mmm... well, skimping and bean counting on the mfgr side.
No one likes those hard-to-find STK replacements today any better than they liked the tend-to-overheat-and-die devices back then. So, no! Not high-end, but probably "good-enough".
I made a quick search on google and found a similar VE thread where this popped up:
This, apparently, is a Salora 3001 system. It's from Finland, the thread reports. It look kind of minimalistic, but what caught my eye, is the Thorens TD-160 turntable on top.
I don't know about the Salora, but the TT is more than the average you'd find on this type of systems. Way more than average. This is actually an excellent turntable.
The same person who uploaded this picture reports an "Elgar" mfgr from the UK who used a TD-150 turntable and Goodman's amplifiers in their all-in-one stereo.
Can't be too bad - if you ask me.
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
Sony made an entire line of these over the years. They all started with the HP- prefix and had numbers like HP-210, HP-211, HP-510, HP-610, etc. Some had low to mid-range Dual turntables, some had Sony tables, and I believe some had Garrard changers. There are too many variants to list them all, but I'd look for an HP-510a or HP-610a with a built in Dual turntable.
Marantz also offered their Model 25 receiver with a wide range of turntable options from Garrard, Elac and Dual. I think one of these with an Elac Miracord 50H would be a really nice all-in-one system.
Marantz also offered their Model 25 receiver with a wide range of turntable options from Garrard, Elac and Dual. I think one of these with an Elac Miracord 50H would be a really nice all-in-one system.
Klh model 24, check it out. Beautiful looks, amazing sound , and very compact for an apartment dwelling. A good working unit with speakers I think average around $200-$300. Heck the model 24 speakers alone sound great on most of my other recievers just by them selves.
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
Overpriced, and none sold in the USA officially either. Hard to find parts.
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
I love the looks of the vintage all-in-one systems from Sony, Marantz, and KLH, but a more practical approach, for a modern, compact vintage system would be the turntable of your choice, new or used, a compact phono preamp like a U-Turn Pluto or Schiit Mani, a compact TPA-3116 amp, like the one from Breeze Audio and the bookshelf speakers of your choice. new or used.
It doesn't look as cool as the vintage units, but gives you a lot more options. You could go even smaller by buying a turntable with a built-in amp and powered speakers, but that limits your options.
Something like a vintage Technics or MCS direct drive turntable, a U-Turn Pluto, a Breeze Audio TPA3116 amp and a pair of Paradigm Atom speakers will give you excellent sound, reliable operation, compact size at an affordable price. If you want to go even smaller, substitute a pair of Minimus 7 speakers for the Paradigms.
It doesn't look as cool as the vintage units, but gives you a lot more options. You could go even smaller by buying a turntable with a built-in amp and powered speakers, but that limits your options.
Something like a vintage Technics or MCS direct drive turntable, a U-Turn Pluto, a Breeze Audio TPA3116 amp and a pair of Paradigm Atom speakers will give you excellent sound, reliable operation, compact size at an affordable price. If you want to go even smaller, substitute a pair of Minimus 7 speakers for the Paradigms.
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
Very rare birds in the USA, very early Yamaha. Their first audio gear was all in ones mainly. Very excellent quality. Seem to be easier found in California and western states than on the East Coast. These were made just before Yamaha audio gear began to get really popular in the USA.
There have been some recent Kickstarter campaigns for literal all-in-ones (with speakers) which mostly have been poo-pooed around here but a couple might be ok. Most of the vintage ones mentioned here don't actually have speakers in them but some are very good though have the inevitable age related issues.
For moderately priced ones look for Sony or Dual.
For moderately priced ones look for Sony or Dual.
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
Sony had a top end model with a Dual changer, that was good. Dual themselves didn't offer compacts in the USA in any numbers. The usual Dual overhaul needs apply.
sqlsavior
Lunatic Member
Any all-in-one that includes non-separatable speakers is anathema to good sound. I'd second the suggestion of powered speakers, or alternatively, a chip amp as a space-saving strategy. Another idea would be a simple homemade four-sided wooden box, with the front and back open, to contain the phono preamp, source selector, and chip amp, with the turntable resting on top.
Jason another factor may be your budget, a good vintage all in one may be a "collectable" item now and the price will reflect it. As you said any new recent all in one like a Crosley is junk and money to the wind. As a few others have mentioned with a little creativity it would be possible to create a "compact" and good sounding system from vintage components, a small intergrated amp, compact speakers like the Minimus or ADS and a Technics liniear tracker SL-5 table all taking up minimal space and sounding very good.
