Sansui AU-777A vs all contenders

Hey! That's awesome...... Very cool!
Man I just noticed the thread with the AU-70..... Holy frick is that a nice looking unit..... Droooool
 
Wooow!!!
Thank you Smurfer77 very very much for that awesome fred.
I am Rainer from Germany and i am sorry for my english. ;-))), this i my first post...
I have repaired and totaly recapped some of the old 60s and early 70s Receivers and ampifiers and i just bought a AU-777a to be rebuild/recapped so i came to this side.
A friend of mine has the same hobby and he has a AU-777 without a. I heard it a few weeks before. We compare to many other sounding beauties, the same class a/ab Yamaha you posted and a few diferent recapped Au-222 (Panasonic FR, Nichicon, Elna Silmic II and stock), Sony STR6200 and so on.
The AU-777 is so nice and i decided to get one.

I have a Sansui TR707E (total recapped and wonderful sounding) and a TR707A (stock) and a Sansui Model 3000 (without A, total recapped) and more others.
Thees two recapped Sansuis are the best sounding of all i heard and my question is, how much difference is between thees and the Au-777a.
My TR707E and the Modell3000 sound nearly the same but the TR707E is a little bit better in my ears.

Greets Rainer
 
Just been reading through this really in deep and involved and interesting thread. Way to go Smurfer77 on your in depth analysis and comparisons between various Sansui models. I also find that the older lower powered models including the AU777A and AU999 which I have both of that I seem to enjoy listening to them more than some of the later more higher powered models not to say the likes of the AU9900 or the Eight Deluxe are bad, they are dam finer sounding as well just different and its always fun to swap them around and listen to another Sansui which I do with my collection from time to time :)
 
I've been a bit quiet on here, and there hasn't been many updates in the many comparisons I want to do (AU-111, AU-X11, HF-V60, AU-9900/9900A, Eight, Eight Deluxe). Due to a few reasons I've been home only a few weeks since February.

One thing I wanted to say is that the AU-888 impresses me again and again. She remains the main amp in my secondary listening area, with the Pioneer RT-707 r2r as source.
XSzQS4J.jpg

So I think it will have to get a full recap and recomparison. Actually I think the AU-888 has a special place in the collection only just below the AU-777A and AU-70. So I grabbed another AU-888. It still has some tag on the power cable. Seen that before?
yieVEnF.jpg

w5g5CSX.jpg


The other thing is that I've grabbed a Sansui Solid State 5000. Looks original inside:
mz1Wa1S.jpg

2nYAj6b.jpg

Biased her up and cleaned up the wood cover. She needs a couple of lamps, but otherwise works as per specifications. That is the AU-70 below her, if you are wondering.
imK3s0s.jpg

Well, how does she sound? You know I've long been saying those older low power model receivers like the Solid State 300, 350, 2000 etc are really under rated? They have so much 'sansui' bass and mids. Stereofun got converted from Marantz to Sansui after hearing a 4000, if I recall correctly. Well the 5000, to my ears this thing still has that sound signature of those gutsy little receivers, but with gobs of power. Am a bit curious to try the 3000A which was out around the same time; they rated the 5000 and 4Ohm and the 3000A at 8Ohm to make the 5000 seem more powerful, but they should have similar output power. Anyway, the 5000 is great; it's it regular rotation on my 4 tier amp rack on the main room (along with AU-777A, Yamaha CA-1000, AU-70). The bass quantity is close to the AU-777A, the quality is not quite (but hey, the 5000 is in need of a recap!). Mids and treble also not quite there with the AU-777A, but boy, it's very very good and I would take the 5000 over numerous other amps that sit in my collection; it's definitely up there and I wonder how it sounds recapped. Honestly, for now, I like it a lot more than my Eight or Eight D.

What else is new? Hmmm.... I picked up some Sansui speakers. The SP-2000. In many ways they do not compete with the Allison speakers in the back, but they are very very pleasant and I also think some of the Sansui speakers are under rated. The SP-2000 sound mighty fine with the AU-888 which really keeps the bass in control.
nJAcAeI.jpg


And one last pic for the day. The AU-222. Not new, but boy it still impresses me too. It's permanently setup in the bedroom.
Lz3nLNq.jpg


So things are settling down in terms of travel and I should be able to get back to the amps over the last part of this year. I've just got a couple of r2r decks to clear, and then the Sansui amp comparison project takes priority. I'm actually 40% done on the AU-111 recap and have the parts for most of the other amps which are waiting for service.
 
Wohoo - Smurfer77 is back at it :thumbsup: I think it fair to call the AU-888 a 999a - apparently they don't have the choked pre-amp and the subsonic filters, and possible some tweaks here and there - but are otherwise very very similar. Interestingly the 999 has stock pretty fast outputs 2sc898 rated at 15 mhz whereas the 888 has quite a bit slower 2sc1111 at 5 mhz - same drivers.
 
Wohoo - Smurfer77 is back at it :thumbsup: I think it fair to call the AU-888 a 999a - apparently they don't have the choked pre-amp and the subsonic filters, and possible some tweaks here and there - but are otherwise very very similar. Interestingly the 999 has stock pretty fast outputs 2sc898 rated at 15 mhz whereas the 888 has quite a bit slower 2sc1111 at 5 mhz - same drivers.

Tom, hope all is good for you mate! Yeah, I would say that is a fair comment. I haven't compared side by side as I don't have an AU-999 anymore, but the bottom end on the AU-888 seems fine straight out of the box, but you get some kind of clarity from that the 888 and 999 have that the 777A (and probably the other cap coupled older topology Sansui) doesn't quite reach.
 
I haven't compared side by side
I've been able to do this and like you, I was really impressed with the 888 once I fired it up without doing anything to it - it seemed to take a lot less work than a 999 to get sounding great!. Still preferred the 999 ultimately so I sold the 888
 
I've been able to do this and like you, I was really impressed with the 888 once I fired it up without doing anything to it - it seemed to take a lot less work than a 999 to get sounding great!. Still preferred the 999 ultimately so I sold the 888

Good to know. it doesn't surprise me that ultimately the AU-999 can be slightly better, once the mods have been done. I do need to get my hands on an AU-999 and find out for myself! :)
 
Hallo David,:)

my AU-777a is now ready to make me happy. I took many inspirations of your xmas-rebuild fred and some others. That made it much easier for me to get the best results. It tooks a lot of work, i took all the PCBs out and i recapped all electrolytics, all power resistors and all the old SC458-transistors. I made all Sansui service bulletin changes and now i began to compare it with my best sounding amplifiers and receivers (1965-1972) and some newer ones.
E5pQuUx.jpg

uqYHZlf.jpg

phls3uW.jpg

uqYHZlf

E5pQuUx

phls3uW


The last one shows my very rare and wonderful sounding TR-707E.
I haven`t the time to compare very much, but what i can say by now is that the TR707E is not so far away from the 777a, but with the original Germaniums there is much more noise. I have completely recapped the TR also and i made a few changes to make it better. I think the bass is the same, the rest comparing will take much time...

Greets Rainer
 
Greetings Rainer - what a beautiful restoration you have done. The 777a is indeed worth the effort. Have you noticed how "real" it sounds. Many amps can easily beat the 777a on distortion, noise, power etc and they may sound really good by all means, but they still sound like a good amplifier or "amplified". What imo makes the 777a special is how it can project music in a way where it gets closer to your expectations of how this would sound in the studio or audience, rather than its reproduction. I have not figured out how this works but the amp continues to drop my jar whenever I listen to live or acoustic recordings - it takes a bit to warm up and reach equilibrium and there is a sweet spot on the volume dial, maybe 10-15% before audible distortion, where it is absolutely large sounding and its 30 w can put bass out to vibrate your rib case. :bowdown:
 
Hallo David,:)

my AU-777a is now ready to make me happy. I took many inspirations of your xmas-rebuild fred and some others. That made it much easier for me to get the best results. It tooks a lot of work, i took all the PCBs out and i recapped all electrolytics, all power resistors and all the old SC458-transistors. I made all Sansui service bulletin changes and now i began to compare it with my best sounding amplifiers and receivers (1965-1972) and some newer ones.
E5pQuUx.jpg

uqYHZlf.jpg

phls3uW.jpg

uqYHZlf

E5pQuUx

phls3uW


The last one shows my very rare and wonderful sounding TR-707E.
I haven`t the time to compare very much, but what i can say by now is that the TR707E is not so far away from the 777a, but with the original Germaniums there is much more noise. I have completely recapped the TR also and i made a few changes to make it better. I think the bass is the same, the rest comparing will take much time...

Greets Rainer

Great stuff! I love to see another AU-777A brought back into fine shape. One question: why do you have some caps on the underside of the main and preamp pcbs? Just ran out of space when changing over to film caps? Also I see you did the mod underneath with the remounted resistors to keep the heat under control :). It is worth the effort IMO.
 
Hi Tom,

thats it. I have a Fine Arts A9009 new bought in the nineties with much more power, no noise and nearly no distortion - and - in comparisim to the old ones Sansui 3000, TR 707E, Harman Kardon 930, Kenwood KA 6000 no Sound. It`s just dead sounding. o.k., the old ones had to be rebuild but then they are really good.

My TR707E sound on small Heco interiors 230s better as my FineArts A9009 with my T+A TMR160MK2. A friend of mine has tree Accuphases.,just forget it. And he has many many nice old ones. I think we compare AU777 against AU777a next time (both best rebuild). He also has AU555 and AU999. I don`t think one of thees is better.

I mesured my AU-777a, and just biased it perfectly. 30w per Channel. Thats it.

c86vdI3.jpg


It was tricky to bias the protection circuit right, because of the changing of the Emitter-Resisors from the Power Transistors, this takes much time but i think i have done it. The first time the protection cuts off wasn`t fine.:idea:


Hi David,

thank you too.

I have measured all components i take off from the 777a, with an LCR-bridge, Electrolytics from 20Hz to 200KHz. And if there were capacitors which have much more capacity in an old amplifier, and it works perfect i try to get near the same capacity when i put the new ones. So there were 3,3uF-Elnas which have 7,5uF, and so on. If there wasn`t enough space i took the other side of the pcb.

There are just two elektrolytics which were dead (2uF instead of 1000uF). The rest was just working fine. But with the Silmics, Muses, Wimas, and other Nichicons and so on it was better...

And Yes the power resistors from down side are really hot on the pcb, perfect tip from you and the bourns pots are really good too.

Here is a nude from my TR707E

QEttgTX.jpg


It was my second restauration project after my Modell 3000. And with my experience from the last years i will make my (next) TR707A just a little better. My TR707A is now stock from 1965 and better sounding as the most new high end.

Greets Rainer
 
Hi Tom,

thats it. I have a Fine Arts A9009 new bought in the nineties with much more power, no noise and nearly no distortion - and - in comparisim to the old ones Sansui 3000, TR 707E, Harman Kardon 930, Kenwood KA 6000 no Sound. It`s just dead sounding. o.k., the old ones had to be rebuild but then they are really good.

My TR707E sound on small Heco interiors 230s better as my FineArts A9009 with my T+A TMR160MK2. A friend of mine has tree Accuphases.,just forget it. And he has many many nice old ones. I think we compare AU777 against AU777a next time (both best rebuild). He also has AU555 and AU999. I don`t think one of thees is better.

I mesured my AU-777a, and just biased it perfectly. 30w per Channel. Thats it.

c86vdI3.jpg


It was tricky to bias the protection circuit right, because of the changing of the Emitter-Resisors from the Power Transistors, this takes much time but i think i have done it. The first time the protection cuts off wasn`t fine.:idea:


Hi David,

thank you too.

I have measured all components i take off from the 777a, with an LCR-bridge, Electrolytics from 20Hz to 200KHz. And if there were capacitors which have much more capacity in an old amplifier, and it works perfect i try to get near the same capacity when i put the new ones. So there were 3,3uF-Elnas which have 7,5uF, and so on. If there wasn`t enough space i took the other side of the pcb.

There are just two elektrolytics which were dead (2uF instead of 1000uF). The rest was just working fine. But with the Silmics, Muses, Wimas, and other Nichicons and so on it was better...

And Yes the power resistors from down side are really hot on the pcb, perfect tip from you and the bourns pots are really good too.

Here is a nude from my TR707E

QEttgTX.jpg


It was my second restauration project after my Modell 3000. And with my experience from the last years i will make my (next) TR707A just a little better. My TR707A is now stock from 1965 and better sounding as the most new high end.

Greets Rainer

Great. Looking forwards to seeing your future TR707A thread! :)
 
o.k., but this will take a time.
I hope it wasn`t to much off topic.
I am very interessted in your former sound competition AU-777a vs. all contenders.
Greets Rainer
 
Hi Tom,

thats it. I have a Fine Arts A9009 new bought in the nineties with much more power, no noise and nearly no distortion - and - in comparisim to the old ones Sansui 3000, TR 707E, Harman Kardon 930, Kenwood KA 6000 no Sound. It`s just dead sounding. o.k., the old ones had to be rebuild but then they are really good.

My TR707E sound on small Heco interiors 230s better as my FineArts A9009 with my T+A TMR160MK2. A friend of mine has tree Accuphases.,just forget it. And he has many many nice old ones. I think we compare AU777 against AU777a next time (both best rebuild). He also has AU555 and AU999. I don`t think one of thees is better.

I mesured my AU-777a, and just biased it perfectly. 30w per Channel. Thats it.

c86vdI3.jpg


It was tricky to bias the protection circuit right, because of the changing of the Emitter-Resisors from the Power Transistors, this takes much time but i think i have done it. The first time the protection cuts off wasn`t fine.:idea:


Hi David,

thank you too.

I have measured all components i take off from the 777a, with an LCR-bridge, Electrolytics from 20Hz to 200KHz. And if there were capacitors which have much more capacity in an old amplifier, and it works perfect i try to get near the same capacity when i put the new ones. So there were 3,3uF-Elnas which have 7,5uF, and so on. If there wasn`t enough space i took the other side of the pcb.

There are just two elektrolytics which were dead (2uF instead of 1000uF). The rest was just working fine. But with the Silmics, Muses, Wimas, and other Nichicons and so on it was better...

And Yes the power resistors from down side are really hot on the pcb, perfect tip from you and the bourns pots are really good too.

Here is a nude from my TR707E

QEttgTX.jpg


It was my second restauration project after my Modell 3000. And with my experience from the last years i will make my (next) TR707A just a little better. My TR707A is now stock from 1965 and better sounding as the most new high end.

Greets Rainer
Hi I just have picked up ka 6000 from thrift shop(45$WHYNOT) .when I was first testing it was pretty good but after checking all the switches amp stared to make allot of nose.Ihave made all recommended checks (http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....d-ka-6000-when-fix.98087/page-2#post-10859524 ) today I have tried it agin and from outside it seems like problem with power switch when I apply some pressure on it nose disappear (fined it when i was in between changing A/B/AB) I will keep looking for more info get proper tools and take look inside on next week .
 
LevShtirlitz, you might wanna address this in the dedicated Kenwood forum. I see the post ylu were referring was in the solid state forum. Cheers, Tom
 
Greetings Rainer - what a beautiful restoration you have done. The 777a is indeed worth the effort. Have you noticed how "real" it sounds. Many amps can easily beat the 777a on distortion, noise, power etc and they may sound really good by all means, but they still sound like a good amplifier or "amplified". What imo makes the 777a special is how it can project music in a way where it gets closer to your expectations of how this would sound in the studio or audience, rather than its reproduction. I have not figured out how this works but the amp continues to drop my jar whenever I listen to live or acoustic recordings - it takes a bit to warm up and reach equilibrium and there is a sweet spot on the volume dial, maybe 10-15% before audible distortion, where it is absolutely large sounding and its 30 w can put bass out to vibrate your rib case. :bowdown:
 
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