Supertweeters?

As my handle would suggest, I'm a professional piano tuner. I have been a rock musician and concert goer since childhood, I'm 47 now. Sometimes I'm surprised how many of my customers simply cannot hear the tone produced by the highest notes on the piano. Often these are people not too much older than me and with far less history of abusing their ears than I have.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I can discern the effect of high frequency in the music I'm listening to quite clearly. I'm not sure what the uppermost limits of my hearing is, but I would say that when I listen to good high resolution recordings there is a realism that is brought about by introducing as many of the frequencies, or as broad a range of frequency, as occurs in a live situation. The interplay between the frequency range that most people an hear and the stuff above and below that, all play a part in creating a more realistic reproduction of a sound, and that's the ultimate goal for a good audio system.

My system I think has a range up to about 40khz. Even if I can only hear a quarter of that, I can hear the effect of the high frequencies that are there in my high res recordings. I would also say that after a few years of listening to high res stuff, my CD quality and below all sound a bit compressed and limited by comparison. I'm not saying I don't enjoy CD's anymore, but I hear a clear difference in dynamics and realism with the 24/96 stuff without a doubt, and I believe it's primarily due to the presence of the highest and lowest frequencies. I also have an SVS sub pushing down to an audible 20 hz.

My goal is to not hear my system at all, just pure realistic music as though it's happening in my room. I'm sure to truly achieve that would cost much more than I can afford, but my system comes close enough for me to recognize the importance of range.
 
Just do the test yourself and test your hearing limit.

I suggest that you do your test at normal listening level* with your ear a few inches from tweeter and then at your listening spot.

http://onlinetonegenerator.com

*Maybe not if you like your music cranked up.
 
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The way music was mixe, and your room acoustic will have an impact on your perception. If you don't hear passed 16k hz tone near the tweeter don't expect to ear it at 9 - 10 feet away, unless the frequencies are amplified by your room, which I doubt.
 
Sorry I forgot to add, that If you want a "more valid" test, ask your wife or a friend to start the tones for you ,(blind) and ask him or her to try to fool you if you can hear the click from the mouse. It will eliminate the : I think I feel or hear it.
 
Well many of us use a lot of old speakers that have old tweeters that simply cant reproduce high frequencies the way more modern ones can. So unless you want to trade out those old tweeters about the only way to get those upper frequencies would be to add a super tweeter. These Bozaks I am working on probably fall off at 10,000 if that.
 
As my handle would suggest, I'm a professional piano tuner. I have been a rock musician and concert goer since childhood, I'm 47 now. Sometimes I'm surprised how many of my customers simply cannot hear the tone produced by the highest notes on the piano. Often these are people not too much older than me and with far less history of abusing their ears than I have.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I can discern the effect of high frequency in the music I'm listening to quite clearly. I'm not sure what the uppermost limits of my hearing is, but I would say that when I listen to good high resolution recordings there is a realism that is brought about by introducing as many of the frequencies, or as broad a range of frequency, as occurs in a live situation. The interplay between the frequency range that most people an hear and the stuff above and below that, all play a part in creating a more realistic reproduction of a sound, and that's the ultimate goal for a good audio system.

My system I think has a range up to about 40khz. Even if I can only hear a quarter of that, I can hear the effect of the high frequencies that are there in my high res recordings. I would also say that after a few years of listening to high res stuff, my CD quality and below all sound a bit compressed and limited by comparison. I'm not saying I don't enjoy CD's anymore, but I hear a clear difference in dynamics and realism with the 24/96 stuff without a doubt, and I believe it's primarily due to the presence of the highest and lowest frequencies. I also have an SVS sub pushing down to an audible 20 hz.

My goal is to not hear my system at all, just pure realistic music as though it's happening in my room. I'm sure to truly achieve that would cost much more than I can afford, but my system comes close enough for me to recognize the importance of range.

I totally agree that the higher frequencies, even those normally considered at or above audibility, add a dynamic realism and impact to the sound and have been working toward this end using JBL 2405 tweeters. My current crossover configuration uses a first order cap/resistor with a value of just 0.27 mfd, a first order cap/resistor with a value of 0.58 mfd, and a second order with a cap of 1.5 mfd and choke of 0.5 mH.

I had it without the first order 0.27 mfd stage and when I added this the difference was easily audible even though it is theoretically at the edge of/above hearing. And it's not just cymbols and synthesizers that benefit. The difference is easily notable on voices, acoustic guitar, and the like.

With the 0.58 value I removed the "veil." Adding the 0.27 removes the "make-up."

Question is, are you ready for what's under the make-up?
 
These Fostex's are the creme de la creme of super tweeters and you might expect that for what they cost ( around $1000 ). They weigh all of 16 lbs.

t500amk2.jpg
 
I totally agree that the higher frequencies, even those normally considered at or above audibility, add a dynamic realism and impact to the sound and have been working toward this end using JBL 2405 tweeters. My current crossover configuration uses a first order cap/resistor with a value of just 0.27 mfd, a first order cap/resistor with a value of 0.58 mfd, and a second order with a cap of 1.5 mfd and choke of 0.5 mH.

I had it without the first order 0.27 mfd stage and when I added this the difference was easily audible even though it is theoretically at the edge of/above hearing. And it's not just cymbols and synthesizers that benefit. The difference is easily notable on voices, acoustic guitar, and the like.

With the 0.58 value I removed the "veil." Adding the 0.27 removes the "make-up."

Question is, are you ready for what's under the make-up?


That's the question. I have Black Sabbath Paranoid in high res surround and I'm pretty sure you can hear the buttins clicking on the cheap 4 track they recorded it on. It does in fact seem like the more refined my system has gotten, the less I can tolerate bad recordings or compressed files. Well recorded stuff sounds amazing, poorly recorded stuff sounds exposed.
 
From what I've read about them, Realistic super tweeters have a built in crossover (don't take my word for it though) so you would wire them in parallel with your main speaker.
Always wanted to own a pair, just for the looks alone:rolleyes:
 
From what I've read about them, Realistic super tweeters have a built in crossover (don't take my word for it though) so you would wire them in parallel with your main speaker.
Always wanted to own a pair, just for the looks alone:rolleyes:

The Realistic super tweeters have a simple crossover which I scrapped in favor of a single cap. The cap value determines how much sizzle comes through.
 
The dq10 piezo stars around 12k and while i couldnt isolate its sound even with a stethoscope
The sound always seemed to be bleeding in from other drivers
so after disconnecting the midbass and dome tweeter leaving only midrange

Found quite a bit of music comes through
After recap as well

Oddly i felt by disconnecting the piezo you could sense its loss quite easily
could just not isolate it with the others playing

i think the piezo draws upper frequency weight toward the midbass creating a more harmonious blend than having all the higher frequencies to one side if were to leave it disconnected like so many did

Sound seems to come more from a single full range than multiple drivers
Shrug

but different case than a super starting up higher at 15k which i think most do?
 
These Eminence ASD1001 horn drivers recently added to my OB's extend to 18 kHz and sound very good. Problem is they're closed back with little rear radiation which means I don't get the same airy sound I got from the Realistics ( sans pod ). Other than that I prefer them over the Realistics. The B&C DE35 is open back and gets great reviews but cost twice as much as the ASD1001 so I guess it should be on my radar.

P1010010 2.jpg
 
We may not be able to 'hear' the highest frequencies produced by a supertweeter but I'm pretty sure we are able to perceive the added harmonics produced by them :)

+1

I still use an old Rat Shack super tweeter with an Eico HF12 to augment the center channel on my main system. Adds a lot of clarity to an otherwise semi-dull Bose VR speaker ...

eico-hf12a-bose.jpg
 
What caps are you guys using with your Realistic super tweets? I never thought about using them open? They radiate from the rear too?
 
As my handle would suggest, I'm a professional piano tuner. I have been a rock musician and concert goer since childhood, I'm 47 now. Sometimes I'm surprised how many of my customers simply cannot hear the tone produced by the highest notes on the piano. Often these are people not too much older than me and with far less history of abusing their ears than I have.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I can discern the effect of high frequency in the music I'm listening to quite clearly. I'm not sure what the uppermost limits of my hearing is, but I would say that when I listen to good high resolution recordings there is a realism that is brought about by introducing as many of the frequencies, or as broad a range of frequency, as occurs in a live situation. The interplay between the frequency range that most people an hear and the stuff above and below that, all play a part in creating a more realistic reproduction of a sound, and that's the ultimate goal for a good audio system.

My system I think has a range up to about 40khz. Even if I can only hear a quarter of that, I can hear the effect of the high frequencies that are there in my high res recordings. I would also say that after a few years of listening to high res stuff, my CD quality and below all sound a bit compressed and limited by comparison. I'm not saying I don't enjoy CD's anymore, but I hear a clear difference in dynamics and realism with the 24/96 stuff without a doubt, and I believe it's primarily due to the presence of the highest and lowest frequencies. I also have an SVS sub pushing down to an audible 20 hz.

My goal is to not hear my system at all, just pure realistic music as though it's happening in my room. I'm sure to truly achieve that would cost much more than I can afford, but my system comes close enough for me to recognize the importance of range.


Tuner Man!

Great piano tuners have grear ears and know how to listen.

I have had my share of pianos and I know at one touch if that A4 is at
440 hertz.

I'll bet you leave those pianos right at 440 and most don't even know the difference!

Way to go tuner man! ;-)"
 
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