Sound of vintage Sansui vs. Marantz vs. Pioneer

The wattage wars go back to the Mid late 50's with FISHER, Scott, Sherwood, McIntosh, etc., all trying to best each other. Before then most consumer amps, consoles, etc., ran 6L6 or 6V6 tubes, with the occasional EL-84 or EL 34 thrown in for good measure. In 59-60 the 7591, and other higher powered tubes came out. In 63-64 Transistors came out and the wattage wars became more visible, and you now had Japanese Co's, vying for space. PIONEER came out with the SX-1010 in 1974 and everyone was scrambling to catch up, IIRC Marantz was the 1st to catch up with a 100w receiver. Then all hell broke loose and everyone was engineering higher powered receivers and amps. It was highly visible as Vietnam vets would buy these Japanese units and bring or send them home. The guys in the states didn't have access at 1st, After a while the gear started coming in and the games began.

Later classic stereo history is what I'm mostly familiar with in learning and enjoying because of my beginning interests happening with whole 100 watt plus era. (Would have more of a growing interest in earlier but not much "easily out there" in comparison, and too busy with what I have now!) Thanks for adding your perspective.
 
Here is my take.
Pioneer has a relatively clean sound with a little more emphasis in the upper mid range and low high end. Experience here comes from sx850 and sx980. I also have an sx 1250, but havnt had much time to clean it up and listen to it.
Marantz has a darker, more mellow tone in the midrange and high end with a warmer bottom end. Some would say tube like, my personal experience is with a 2235b, a 2245 and a 2265b. The 2265b is a little clearer in the midrange and high end.
Sansui to me, is a great combo of both. Nice clean yet beefy bottom end with a pretty clear midrange and high end. My experience here comes from a 5000x and a 9090.

Purely my take on first hand experience.

My ears are in dead on agreement with only two slight additions to describe those observations for my ear (and one observation concerning a good historical speaker pairing).
Marantz 60w plus receivers start the big graduation up into a more refined and "sparkly" high end (and mids/base adjust tighter slightly to that.)
Sansui "same era" G-6000 and higher carry a real cool and clean separation that's still smooth and the highs have this slightly safe/but detailed something that allows for warmth in the whole....and it's still an aggressive forward take that is easily appreciated.

Speaks. The way you described Pioneer is exacting. A funny thing is that you can describe the whole JBL L100/HPM "thing" the same. (Getting ears on this intended pairing is a treat with strings and vocals being forward.....some tastes prefer less aggressive mids and a less intrusive bass that crosses over lower.) Me? I get the intent and appreciate it fully.....lower level volume and loudness on can do cool stuff with classic string work especially. Appreciate your post!
 
This responses here have been awesome.:thumbsup: I am currently debating on the right way to go with a receiver. It would be awesome to be able to go into a shop and a/b/c compare and then buy the Sansui-Marantz-Pioneer I liked the most. I'm curious if anyone has any experience with the Sansui QR-6500 vs the Marantz 2220B. I like the "warmth" (mid range) of the Marantz 2220B. I like that nice "tube like" sound. Does the Sansui compare to the Marantz in the Mid range sound wise?
 
I can't compare the Marantz/Sansui because I've never heard a Marantz. I have an 8080db but I don't think I'd call it tube like or at least not like any tube amp that I've heard. It's very detailed and the base is punchy. I like it better than the Pioneers that I've heard with maybe the exception of one. I have an SX-1980 that smoked right after I got it and even though the few minutes of playing time sounded great I can't really say if it was better or worse than the Sansui. The jury is still out on that one. I've got a 9090db that I haven't heard but have parts on order for but from what I've heard it's very similar to the 8080db.
 
After all the smoke cleared I settled on Sansui as my preferred receiver.There were some others than were just as good in their own right.The ones that come to mind was a very nice sounding Marantz 2215b and a Pioneer sx838.I still have the 838 because it seems to have the sound of the Sansuis with perhaps a little more detail.Wish I would have kept the Marantz.
After the smoked cleared four years later newer Yamaha is what pushed the Sansui and almost every 70s receivers out.To me just a cleaner sound at high volume seems to extract the most of my vintage speakers.
 
Later classic stereo history is what I'm mostly familiar with in learning and enjoying because of my beginning interests happening with whole 100 watt plus era. (Would have more of a growing interest in earlier but not much "easily out there" in comparison, and too busy with what I have now!) Thanks for adding your perspective.
Having been involved with hi-fi for over 50 years the choice of best is a personal one. As with speakers and headphones everyone hears differently or finds a certain sound more pleasing than others. Some receivers/amps sound great in short bursts but get fatiguing when listening for a few hours or more. Also some prefer the more detailed "on stage" sound and some prefer the more open "10th row" sound. Just to throw in my two cents I prefer the Heathkit AR1500a in the SS category over most of the classic 70's amps I have owned (60w rms @8ohms, 110w @4 ohms) These amps MUST have the two original main power filter caps changed out as the originals (6000 uf) were the big flaw in the unit. The original caps were sub-grade quality, under value (55w) and dried out drifted within a couple of years of steady use. Need to install high quality 6200-6500 uf at least 100w max. I have found that Sprague powerlytic work well and change the tone of the entire unit. Its a peach!
 
Having been involved with hi-fi for over 50 years the choice of best is a personal one. As with speakers and headphones everyone hears differently or finds a certain sound more pleasing than others. Some receivers/amps sound great in short bursts but get fatiguing when listening for a few hours or more. Also some prefer the more detailed "on stage" sound and some prefer the more open "10th row" sound. Just to throw in my two cents I prefer the Heathkit AR1500a in the SS category over most of the classic 70's amps I have owned (60w rms @8ohms, 110w @4 ohms) These amps MUST have the two original main power filter caps changed out as the originals (6000 uf) were the big flaw in the unit. The original caps were sub-grade quality, under value (55w) and dried out drifted within a couple of years of steady use. Need to install high quality 6200-6500 uf at least 100w max. I have found that Sprague powerlytic work well and change the tone of the entire unit. Its a peach!

55w original caps? 100w 6200-6500uF caps? Don't you mean 55 Volts and 100 Volts not Watts?
 
One thing to mention, is that most designs from the same mfg can be varied in that they can have different designers involved. These designers have different ideas or circuit topologies that they prefer to use. The end result is a audio reproduction device but designs are not universal so they can deviate. In some case by a lot, in other cases minimally.
If you look at the designs you can see these differences. I will use one example, a Pioneer SX-1050 vs a SX-1250. Much is common in these designs, but the power amp section differ in design a bit, the 1050 for example uses a diamond pre-driver. How much that particular design difference makes in the sound signature is debatable however.
There are lots of design techniques, choices of components ,build qualities that can have incremental or more noticeable changes in performance and sound quality.
 
Here is my take.
Pioneer has a relatively clean sound with a little more emphasis in the upper mid range and low high end. Experience here comes from sx850 and sx980. I also have an sx 1250, but havnt had much time to clean it up and listen to it.
Marantz has a darker, more mellow tone in the midrange and high end with a warmer bottom end. Some would say tube like, my personal experience is with a 2235b, a 2245 and a 2265b. The 2265b is a little clearer in the midrange and high end.
Sansui to me, is a great combo of both. Nice clean yet beefy bottom end with a pretty clear midrange and high end. My experience here comes from a 5000x and a 9090.

Purely my take on first hand experience.

This is my take too and can only add that with the higher end Marantz....."the warm" becomes slightly less and all the range gets more fast and defined.
After lots of comparing? Most of the main names have there own strengths and even though their take is different? It's obvious when your listening to either top of the line from them (or a perfect "trade off" within their lesser featured models).

My personal "truth"? I could be as equally happy with any of those three families of sound and once it gets into the more obvious "quality of sound"....it boils down to things "other than sound" for the keeping or selling. My only two partial regrets are selling an SX-1050 and Marantz 2385, but it's not long lived because you can't own it all anyways....and beautiful sound abounds in it all (.....and split your own hairs as you will).
 
Sansui- faster, less confused, typically neutral sounding, dimensional.
Pioneer- slower, excellent bass, nice top end, lack dimension, slightly dry mids, but puts the artists in the room pretty good..
Marantz- nice midrange, but lack transparency in most cases to my ears. Not really impressive, but that could be its strength.

This is painting with a broad brush, as there are standout pieces from all of these manufacturers.
 
Sansui- faster, less confused, typically neutral sounding, dimensional.
Pioneer- slower, excellent bass, nice top end, lack dimension, slightly dry mids, but puts the artists in the room pretty good..
Marantz- nice midrange, but lack transparency in most cases to my ears. Not really impressive, but that could be its strength.

This is painting with a broad brush, as there are standout pieces from all of these manufacturers.
Couldn't agree more.
 
Sansui- faster, less confused, typically neutral sounding, dimensional.
Pioneer- slower, excellent bass, nice top end, lack dimension, slightly dry mids, but puts the artists in the room pretty good..
Marantz- nice midrange, but lack transparency in most cases to my ears. Not really impressive, but that could be its strength.

This is painting with a broad brush, as there are standout pieces from all of these manufacturers.
Man... that's the most accurate description that I've read ever
 
Sansui- faster, less confused, typically neutral sounding, dimensional.
Pioneer- slower, excellent bass, nice top end, lack dimension, slightly dry mids, but puts the artists in the room pretty good..
Marantz- nice midrange, but lack transparency in most cases to my ears. Not really impressive, but that could be its strength.

This is painting with a broad brush, as there are standout pieces from all of these manufacturers.

How would you describe early Accuphase gear, specifically the E-202?
 
Here is my take.
Pioneer has a relatively clean sound with a little more emphasis in the upper mid range and low high end. Experience here comes from sx850 and sx980. I also have an sx 1250, but havnt had much time to clean it up and listen to it.
Marantz has a darker, more mellow tone in the midrange and high end with a warmer bottom end. Some would say tube like, my personal experience is with a 2235b, a 2245 and a 2265b. The 2265b is a little clearer in the midrange and high end.
Sansui to me, is a great combo of both. Nice clean yet beefy bottom end with a pretty clear midrange and high end. My experience here comes from a 5000x and a 9090.
Purely my take on first hand experience.

Good explination! Explained really well.
 
I just found this thread and seems interesting.
Guys I have some option to buy on budget :
1. Sansui AU 7900
2. Sansui AU 719
3. Marantz C1500/M1500 amp preamp
4. Marantz SM500 DC/ SC500 sml preamp
5. Sansui alpha 607i

They are all in the market at similar price

I have Heco pps 40 speaker


What your favourite from those list


Adi
Indonesia
 
Sansui Alpha 607i is my suggestion for the most transparent and accurate sound, but it really depends what your personal preferences are. The 7900 will give you a punchier and warmer sound than either the 719 or 607i.
 
Sansui Alpha 607i is my suggestion for the most transparent and accurate sound, but it really depends what your personal preferences are. The 7900 will give you a punchier and warmer sound than either the 719 or 607i.

Absolutely - "most transparent and accurate" sound.

AU-a607i... or (international models) an AU-X701/(AU-a607i) or AU-X901/(AU-a707i) ... both 120V.

No worries... the AU-a607i / AU-X701, AU-a707i / AU-X901 have enough punch. ' FINE ' sounding amps!
 
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What do you think about pairing Marantz 2230 as preamp and Sansui AU-317 as power amp? Or some Harman like 330B, HK680 will be better match?
 
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