High end AV receivers, worst investment in audio?

This discussion reminds me why I am not tempted by German luxury sedans, new or used. Nice to drive. Nice to look at. Value ravaged by depreciation each and every day.
 
This discussion reminds me why I am not tempted by German luxury sedans, new or used. Nice to drive. Nice to look at. Value ravaged by depreciation each and every day.

Yeah, but if you can truly afford it (as opposed to simply able to cover the payments) would it matter all that much?

I know it doesn't to my wealthy Aunt that goes through cars like Mercedes AMGs and Bentleys.
 
This discussion reminds me why I am not tempted by German luxury sedans, new or used. Nice to drive. Nice to look at. Value ravaged by depreciation each and every day.
Not a problem if you buy them after the depreciation has reached rock-bottom and fix them up. This was my thing over a decade ago: http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/525i/

When I got tired of BMWs, I got a Toyota Landcruiser and a Honda motorcycle, which are every bit as much fun as the BMWs but in a different way.
 
Oh, sorry. Yes, I don't get the multiple-systems-in-a-room thing either.

What is not to get? I prefer vintage two channel receivers and speakers for music and do most of my music listening in the front room, so the 2220B/6100TT with Imperial 6 speakers do music duty. We have our AVR in the same front room so have smaller front mains with a bigger center and the back speakers are small as well. It is a small room so large HT speakers dont make much sense. It is simple and works perfectly.
 
Yeah, but if you can truly afford it (as opposed to simply able to cover the payments) would it matter all that much?

I know it doesn't to my wealthy Aunt that goes through cars like Mercedes AMGs and Bentleys.

Mine was not a social comment. It was a personal choice which happily is not dictated by monetary constraint. In fact. the world is better off with diversity which by definition includes appreciation for the wealthy and their spending habits.

Looping this back on topic, do I think buyers of ultra-highend AVR receivers are foolish for taking the massive depreciation? Nope. The many interesting and awesome TOTL AVR units would not exist if not for these consumers.
 
Not a problem if you buy them after the depreciation has reached rock-bottom and fix them up. This was my thing over a decade ago: http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/525i/

When I got tired of BMWs, I got a Toyota Landcruiser and a Honda motorcycle, which are every bit as much fun as the BMWs but in a different way.

Don't get me wrong, I have owned three Beemers over the years so I am not shooting from the hip. They are very cool cars, except for the depreciation and the running costs.
 
Mine was not a social comment. It was a personal choice which happily is not dictated by monetary constraint. In fact. the world is better off with diversity which by definition includes appreciation for the wealthy and their spending habits.

Looping this back on topic, do I think buyers of ultra-highend AVR receivers are foolish for taking the massive depreciation? Nope. The many interesting and awesome TOTL AVR units would not exist if not for these consumers.

I don't care what people buy either, so the social comment spin is nothingness.

But, if depreciation is a foremost concern then the point is you're probably barking up the wrong tree no matter what the item happens to be.
 
I don't care what people buy either, so the social comment spin is nothingness.

But, if depreciation is a foremost concern then the point is you're probably barking up the wrong tree no matter what the item happens to be.

Re-stated in simpler terms, I am making a choice as a consumer but I appreciate what others choose.
 
No, they are equally susceptible to industry standard changes. The difference is you don't have to replace the amplifier every time.

I have updated an earlier Emotiva processor to a new version - and got a significant credit towards its purchase. Amp? Why change it?

XMC-1 ?
 
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I've owned more ubers but these are the only ones I could find the pictures of, I paid under $300 for all of them with the exception of the Pioneer elite sc 09 which set me back $500 ($7k retail) and interestingly enough was the worst sounding for 2ch. All have been well worth the price per performance for second hand purchase and 2 of them went head to head with my Krell 300i I had at the time with one sounding better to my ears (The B&K 507s2). The Yamaha RXZ 1 (paid $70, retail $2800) has outstanding amps and does excellent for 2ch listening and does its job perfectly as my home theater rig. I use my oppo udp 203 to run the show with the yamaha providing the power only no processing. 2ch listening is done with my Aragon 4004 MKII. The point is to get a second hand Totl Uber for a low price is definitely worth it imo over getting the latest and greatest receiver today, for one, the ubers were made like tanks to last and second they generally have excellent amps that put out real stated watts unlike alot of the misleading receivers today. If you don't mind setting up rcas from your blue ray to the multichannel Inputs on the receiver (which in my opinion sounds much better than hdmi) then it is worth the hassle to set up this way because it's much cheaper to change out a blue ray player than to keep buying new receivers or even more expensive Seperate home theater pre pros.

Audiofreak71
 
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I've owned more ubers but these are the only ones I could find the pictures of, I paid under $300 for all of them with the exception of the Pioneer elite sc 09 which set me back $500 ($7k retail) and interestingly enough was the worst sounding for 2ch. All have been well worth the price per performance for second hand purchase and 2 of them went head to head with my Krell 300i I had at the time with one sounding better to my ears (The B&K 507s2). The Yamaha RXZ 1 (paid $70, retail $2800) has outstanding amps and does excellent for 2ch listening and does its job perfectly as my home theater rig. I use my oppo udp 203 to run the show with the yamaha providing the power only no processing. 2ch listening is done with my Aragon 4004 MKII. The point is to get a second hand Totl Uber for a low price is definitely worth it imo over getting the latest and greatest receiver today, for one the ubers were made like tanks to last and second they generally have excellent amps that put out real stated watts unlike alot of the misleading receivers today. If you don't mind setting up rcas from your blue ray to the multichannel Inputs on the receiver (which in my opinion sounds much better than hdmi) then it is worth the hassle to set up this way because it's much cheaper to change out a blue ray player than to keep buying new receivers or even more expensive Seperate home theater pre pros.

Audiofreak71
 
I'm with you on RCAs to the amp. I have a pre-HDMI NAD HTR that's around 20 years young. Oppo player to the NAD with RCAs. Not only great DVD and Blu-ray, but 5.1 SACD.

I don't run any video through the HTR though.
 
I'm one of those people who is *planning* on spending money on a newer AV processor. I ended up with some really nice ceiling speakers for essentially free, then was able to buy 12 stereo amplifiers out of a movie theater for $330 (six Crown Com-Tech 800, six Ashly FTX-2001 Series II, each low distortion and 250wpc), and some good rear and side channels for also not much money so I decided I want to do a full Atmos setup. I tending toward the newer Denon X line because the audio quality is supposed to be very good. I can't remember which unit or which magazine the review was from, but they used the Denon receiver in a system with $20k speakers and said, while they thought the amplifier and pre-amp designed for the speakers sounded better, the Denon gave it a run for its money. Seems it's possible to have AVRs that are good for both home theater and music. I figure I'd keep it for quite a while, if I upgrade, it would get moved to another system, but I really don't anticipate any big new codecs/technologies here in the near future which would be as "cool" as 3D sound.
 
I agree they are terrible investments but only if you suffer from upgradeitis. As long as you're not hung up on having the latest and greatest then they CAN be very sonically pleasing and long lasting. That said I only have one but I do like it a lot. A sherwood newcastle R965.
 
I agree they are terrible investments but only if you suffer from upgradeitis. As long as you're not hung up on having the latest and greatest then they CAN be very sonically pleasing and long lasting. That said I only have one but I do like it a lot. A sherwood newcastle R965.
Sounds like quite the unit. I have one of the much cheaper modern Sherwood receivers (I think it retailed for under $100) and I've been nothing but impressed. Doesn't have many features but 100wpc and sounds quite nice considering.
 
The thing about it is the stigma of "poor two channel performance" from TOTL AVRs is one of those audiophile snobbery things that persists today and is essentially untrue.

It might also be a matter of what's out there. A lot of the affordable units aren't the super-TOTL ones-- they might be "decent mainstream" models, where you're looking at compromises.
 
i hope nobody has covered this idea yet, i can't see me reading 8+ pages of this thread to make my comment. i use an onkyo ht receiver as a pre/pro using external amps to deliver the necessary power. it is way cheaper than a bigger pre/pro but i do think i am sacrificing some transparency. after a while, i might get a pre/pro on clearance provided it fits my cheap ways. i spend money when it's important and everything goes through my ARC sp3a1 before it greets the amplifiers.
 
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