Why bother when you have internet FM?

Interesting thread but not much discussion of OTA (over the air) broadcasts vs streaning audio. . . . The streams don’t sound bad, but they don’t have the “depth” and “air” and “ ambiance” that the OTA FM signals have . . .

I hear the same difference. "Depth" and "air" is a good description of the difference between good OTA audio and even a high quality stream. There is something almost liquid or a softness about some OTA FM audio - a very slight reverb or echo - at least the stuff that isn't compressed to hell. Streams are flat.

Have you ever listened frequently enough to a station so that its OTA sound was burned into your brain, then walked into the station and heard it on the lobby monitors? Flat. That's the difference I hear between OTA and streams.

Still, I am grateful for streams. I'm in Pa., and yesterday I was listening to some old stoner DJ (his description) spinning late 60s psychedelic tunes on KPOV in Bend, Oregon. Obscure stuff I'd never heard before. These are wonderful times we're living in.
 
I still have a tuner and receiver but they never get used any more. FM is dead for me as there are no stations worth listening to in the vast FM wasteland where I live.
Even though I live in the sticks I do have fast fiber optic internet so I enjoy streams from online only stations and actual FM stations that are too far away.
 
I have no commercial free FM station where I live in Southern Ontario, Canada, CFGI that would make a great internet streaming station.
Right now I am listening too Neil Young "walk on". Last night they were playing some tunes from an old LP Deep Purple Stormbringer.
Streaming is only good for cheap or unlimited internet, no good for me since I can only get mobile internet, only 3G/month then heavy bills there after, it sucks.
 
I own 3 decent Kenwood tuners (a couple 615's and a 7300) that have been gone completely through and aligned/lightly modded, and a couple Sony receivers with 5 gang FM tuners. So, I have the equipment, and they were inexpensive to acquire and as mentioned, I don't need an internet connection for them.

I also happen to live in two areas (cabin and home) with a single pirate station each (bless their hearts) that have lots of music I've never heard before yet still play stuff I like. Here at home, there's a couple college stations that are commercial free and play good stuff (mostly jazz/blues), along with an FM station that has a digital FM subcarrier also broadcasting on a separate low power local frequency that is very listenable music-wise. My cabin, I don't have DSL and spotty wireless reception at best - so I have a yagi with a rotor that I can pull in FM from up to 150 miles away. The cabin is in Iowa right on the Mississippi River, yet I can pick up as far away as Wausau, Rockford/Chicago, Madison and Milwaukee.

I also use an FM transmitter that I use with my FLAC collection using all the old school tuner/stereo gear cause I didn't want to go to say a Sonos system for each place.

I've tried streaming, the quality is mostly "lacking".

When you're single income and paying for two homes, you look for less expensive ways to do the simple things. I'm lucky in that I have FM that's listenable, and the gear to do it up right.
 
Lol this thread took off on so many tangents you can make decisions on questions you didn't know you had.
 
Lol this thread took off on so many tangents you can make decisions on questions you didn't know you had.

No two listeners are really alike ;)

I've always been a radio guy. My dad owned Zenith Transoceanics back in the 70's (worked for Collins Radio...go figure). As I've gotten older, I've figured out new technology doesn't always mean better sounding technology - and have sort of rediscovered FM radio as a result.

It certainly helps that I have at least some listenable radio nearby. But overall, I've gotten rid of all my modern equipment other than a few CD players and a single DD receiver I use as a pre-amp for all the hookups.

But like a lot of people here, I got analog equipment all over both my cabin and home. A tuner in every room too...
 
My dad owned Zenith Transoceanics back in the 70's (worked for Collins Radio...go figure).

Even with an employee discount, he probably still couldn't afford one. :biggrin:

I still own a R3000 Transoceanic I bought in high school in 1963. Paid $200. It had just been introduced and was the first one with FM. I have loved and listened to FM in Chicago and beyond with it. Unfortunately, out of 9 bands, FM and AM are the only one's with anything to listen to.
 
Even with an employee discount, he probably still couldn't afford one. :biggrin:

I still own a R3000 Transoceanic I bought in high school in 1963. Paid $200. It had just been introduced and was the first one with FM. I have loved and listened to FM in Chicago and beyond with it. Unfortunately, out of 9 bands, FM and AM are the only one's with anything to listen to.

Oh I know the 3000 well. My sister has the one my dad initially bought, I have the 7000 my dad bought later on. The 3000, the power brick died long ago and she never got a replacement, but mine works rather well still though my dad left batteries in it way too long, the battery part of the mix no longer works. Luckily, I have the AC cord still. It needs rebuilding and at some point I'll have it done.

This morning I was perusing the web, looking at old Zeniths for sale. There are some sweet tabletop tube Zeniths out there that I would love to purchase some day. My buddy has a "toaster" model that works perfect that he was given by his parents a while back...sounds glorious, looks great.

I just love those old Zeniths. That's what my parents always bought. TV's, radios, console stereos - the only non Zenith item they ever bought were three of those tiny cube Sony AM radios from the early 70's.
 
My streaming listening is mostly from actual OTA stations. Some I can't get OTA because of geography (WNCW in Spindale, N.C. for instance), some because I am running them through an amp with no tuner attached. When I can compare the sound from stations that I can get both ways, and that have a decent bit rate on their stream, the stream sounds at least as good as OTA, and usually have less background hiss. That said, losing internet connectivity is not the only reason I have tuners. I like the technology, and the aesthetics. But at least for me, where I live & what I listen to, OTA doesn't sound better & often worse. Interestingly, streams are often 3 seconds or so ahead of the broadcast (OK, probably only interesting to me).
 
Oh I know the 3000 well. My sister has the one my dad initially bought, I have the 7000 my dad bought later on. The 3000, the power brick died long ago and she never got a replacement, but mine works rather well still though my dad left batteries in it way too long, the battery part of the mix no longer works. Luckily, I have the AC cord still. It needs rebuilding and at some point I'll have it done.

This morning I was perusing the web, looking at old Zeniths for sale. There are some sweet tabletop tube Zeniths out there that I would love to purchase some day. My buddy has a "toaster" model that works perfect that he was given by his parents a while back...sounds glorious, looks great.

I just love those old Zeniths. That's what my parents always bought. TV's, radios, console stereos - the only non Zenith item they ever bought were three of those tiny cube Sony AM radios from the early 70's.
A tiny piece of trivia from someone who grew up in Chicago in "Zenith country." Every Zenith FM radio from the 60's and (I think) the 70's had a tiny dot on the dial at 99.5. This was the location of WEFM, the station owned by Zenith in Chicago since the dawn of FM.

Also, my R3000 was the very first version and did NOT have AC capabilities. I just had to keep buying 8 D cells (the old silver Eveready zinc-carbon versions). A few years ago I refurbished a really nice R2000 I got off ebay as a 50th anniv. gift for an older cousin and cousin-in-law who bought one new in the late 50's. (not the original radio, that one rusted away). I was about 12 at the time they got it in the late 50's and I was mesmerized looking at it, like a Ferrari. The unit I worked on turned out absolutely beautiful and their son now uses it. Unfortunately, like the R3000, it does not have an AC plug. 8 D cells for that one as well. My cousin told me that at the time they bought it the FM dial in Chicago was really empty with many "part time" stations, but WFMT was there.
 
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"A tiny piece of trivia from someone who grew up in Chicago in "Zenith country." Every Zenith FM radio from the 60's and (I think) the 70's had a tiny dot on the dial at 99.5. This was the location of WEFM, the station owned by Zenith in Chicago since the dawn of FM."

I'm from Chicago and I love trivia and audio. Thanks. I did not know that.

I picked up this Lafayette tabletop from the late 40's because it was just too cool to pass up. Foreign broadcast? Was 20171103_200503.jpg the signal bouncing off the ionosphere?
 
I'm a computer guy by trade (or was), and my interest in online music peaked around 2001, when a bunch of free 'NetRadio' stations could be found online with a world of variety; somehow the goth ones seemed most suited to my job at the time, and in IT we had the bandwidth to stream all that stuff. But they went away, and I went back to real radio. Now my PCs do the work I need them to while I get a bunch of new music from the local educational FM station.

Which is why the earlier 'wasteland' reply puzzles me; in NE Ohio, doesn't U of Akron or Kent State have a radio station? Youth is where the fun stuff is.
 
I miss listening to a tuner! But for me, radio died when WJZZ went off the air (well actually, a little prior to that, when they started playing that $mooth Jazz nonsense and Luther and Mariah were played more than jazz :rolleyes: ). That station was a big part of my life back then. It cost me a lot of money at the wrecka stow. :D There were a couple of others from that era of about 1977-1985 I'd listen to for hours. Today, Detroit radio...let's just put it very politely and say it is lacking. Thanks to the TuneIn Radio app, I can get a few good FM stations across the country if I'm ever in the mood. But yeah, no, it's not the same. Our high school had a radio station, still broadcasting today, and one of my classmates has been a longtime DJ on local FM station WRIF. (Won't mention any names, but the word "scream" might play into the name a little... ;) )

Had this tuner, purchased for $59 during one of their monthly "Where Is, As Is" sales. The matching integrated amp (SA-1000A) was a wretched sounding thing, but the tuner was nice. I still like the looks of it! Digital tuners just don't have the same feel as a good ol' fashioned dial. And that Auto-Magic tuning would lock onto that signal quite firmly. Never drifted on me! I've been meaning to dust it off and fire it up just to see if it still works.

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Iffen I could get interweb radio upstate I would, but there's still lots of rural America that doesn't have high speed internet, so I love my Kenwood tuner.
I do have a satellite link for email and what-not, but it can't swing streaming media.
 
For me the Kenwoods of the early 70's were the best I ever listened to and I include the Model 18 I owned for a time. I don't know what it was about them but when listening they rarely caused fatigue. The repeal of the fairness doctrine and limits on ownership doomed the unique local broadcasters and brought about the behemoths like (I can't bring myself to say it) - clearchannel and their ilk.
 
Nice tuner :)
I realized after I posted the picture that I've come full circle. I've never liked silver-faced components. Black front panels got tiresome. This tuner has a somewhat "champagne gold" type of finish to it, and it was among the first components I bought (the matching integrated amp and pathetic matching equalizer were its mates). My most recent upgrades included Conrad-Johnson components, which are in what looks to be nearly the same tint of champagne gold as the old tuner.
 
Well, my Meridian 104 tuner just arrived along with the rest of the set from the UK. I have a set of original 120v transformers for all but the tuner. Bummer. I suppose I could have one made. Very nice kit in fabulous condition. Like taking a step back in time. I now have two pairs of 105 monos I want to bridge-parallel. Will make an awsome set up.
 
Fascinating thread.

I'm a heavy user of both - I run a Squeezebox/Raspberry Pi network and I have three tuners - a MD, the little Sony and a NAD - in rotation.

If you give me the same station on FM and over the internet, I gravitate to the FM. Why?

Several posters here say they just like the sound of FM better; it has more air or warmth. I agree, but I've wondered where that comes from.

Couple of thoughts: first, in absolute terms, an FM signal isn't bad. It's about half what a CD is, in terms of bits per second. Of course, as the linked article points out, there are several other factors in play that affect the ultimate quality of what you hear from an FM station, usually to the bad. But as a starting point, FM ain't shabby. Still, it doesn't explain why people would prefer an FM signal to something off the internet.

The big aha moment for me came earlier this year when I read Damien Krukowski's The New Analog. Krukowski argues, among other things, that what we've always regarded as "noise" is an essential part of the signal. I think that's exactly right: when we hear an absolute black noise floor, we hear an absence. Or conversely, our brains need at least at least a little noise in order to navigate the signal properly.

I'm the furthest thing from an expert in these matters, but as an explanation, this feels right to me, and explains why digital leaves many people feeling lost and cut off from the music.

s.
 
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