Record Cleaning: Developing the Best Possible Methods

[EngineerNate]

My correct EDTA came in today. I'll be curious to add it to the formula and see if I notice any difference.

I haven't had any trouble mixing the Triton so far. I'm starting out with no alcohol.

 

[EngineerNate]

I've put together a formulation spreadsheet with the most popular ingredients (triton, hep, edta, alcohol) and thought you guys might like it. I've created stock versions with two formulation strategies.

Note, i'm using the edta molar mass from Making Cosmetics at 416g/mol. I've seen other quotes at 380g or so but the 416g matches that of the CAS number specced on a few different sites. Can any of the chemists comment on this?

1. No alcohol. Just enough extra water added to the concentrate to make measurement easy. 2 tbsp or 30 ml per gallon of water yields approximately .26% Triton, .2% hepastat, and 5mM EDTA. 8 ml to 1L water yields nearly but not exactly the same, but is the closest round ml.

2. 5% Alcohol. For simplicity, take 1L alcohol amd discard 75 ml. Add cleaning chemicals in amounts shown. This makes 1L of concentrate. This is a higher volume mix, so throw out 60 ml from 1 liter of water and replace with alcohol solution. This yields 5% iso, .24% triton, and .21% hepastat. For a gallon do the same but discard and replace 225 ml. The idea with throwing out the extra volume of water/alcohol is to be able to use the existing container for storage and mixing. This isn't necessary for the small volumes added using method 1.

The sheet is also "programmed" so that if you want to replace the water in the concentrate with a small amount of iso and add the iso separately you can do that. I didn't make anything super automatic as far as getting to the desired concentration, I wanted to be able to fiddle with the numbers manually to see what I could come up with using easily measured quantities even if the amounts aren't exactly perfect in the final solution.

The exact ratios on these two mixes is not identical, I fudged them to make the concentrates easy to measure out. Shouldn't be noticeable in practice.

Link to spreadsheets below:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4ohxieumi08sbuz/AACOWoVXwIclAOOhO__lTTb1a?dl=0

There's one sheet for each recipe for making up 1 gallon and 1L of solution, so four sheets total. Green are inputs, yellow are calculated outputs. Feel free to tweak the numbers to get the final solution you want!

Cheers
Nathan

 

[ripblade]

Thanks, Nathan! Unfortunately, not Excel compatible. What program are you using to open it?

 

[EngineerNate]

Uh, I made it in Excel.

What version of Excel do you have? I can try saving it as an older file version.

 

[caseyjames]

So, in comparison to Rushton's formula (.13% Triton / .10% Hepastat / 5% Iso), how do you find the results?

 

[ripblade]

Excel97...

 

[EngineerNate]

I made it in 2016. Let me make a downgraded version.

@caseyjames - this is based on Rushton's formula, aside from the EDTA which I got from Vince. Rushton's formula is based on use of an ultrasonic cleaner and he recommended doubling the concentration for hand cleaning and vacuum machines. I'm using a Squeaky Clean so that doubled formula was my target. To go back to his formula, simply halve the concentrations or the amount of concentrate put into the final solution.

 

[caseyjames]

Ooooooh, I missed the USC vs. hand-washing part of that.

I use an USC cleaner and Rushton's formula with great results, so I'd assume people using your formula for handwashing/RCM cleaning will be pleased.

 

[EngineerNate]

I don't even think I deserve the credit of calling it my formula. It's just Rushton's/Phantom Rebel's Triton/Hepastat mix plus Vince's EDTA recommendation in ratios fudged to ease measurement with standard household tools.

I kept the alcohol at 5% because I'm wary of alcohol personally and 10% sounded like a lot.

The EDTA helps pick up any metal salts that may get on the vinyl from a tap water initial rinse and should help break up any left by sweaty fingerprints or previous less scrupulous washing techniques. It's cheap insurance, if not entirely necessary. I read a few posters saying it made a big difference for them so I ordered some.

Cheers
Nathan

 

[GPJeff]

Nate,
I may have missed it in the big thread. Where can you buy the EDTA? Llink?
thanks

 

[EngineerNate]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01LVWMFL1/ref=ya_aw_oh_bia_dp?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[EngineerNate]

@ripblade Here's a link with .xls files in addition to the .xlsx. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4ohxieumi08sbuz/AACOWoVXwIclAOOhO__lTTb1a?dl=0

I took the molarity of the EDTA down to ~2.5mM as I found that in my no-alcohol concentrate the volume of EDTA to mix in was quite high. With the ratio I was using, it didn't fully dissolve until I added the hepastat. YMMV and feel free to tweak. I think the batch I made last night ended up somewhere around 3mM.

Cheers,
Nathan

 

[ripblade]

Thanks, Nate! I'll look it over for any questions...

 

[NOPSI]

1. No alcohol. Just enough extra water added to the concentrate to make measurement easy. 2 tbsp or 15 ml per gallon of water yields approximately .26% Triton, .2% hepastat, and 5mM EDTA. 8 ml to 1L water yields nearly but not exactly the same, but is the closest round ml.

Is that tablespoons or teaspoons? 2 tablespoons = 30ml

 

[ripblade]

Thanks, Nate! I'll look it over for any questions...

 

[EngineerNate]

Is that tablespoons or teaspoons? 2 tablespoons = 30ml

Good catch, that should have been 30ml. Fixed.

I used this mix to clean my latest purchase, and it played fantastic right off the vacuum machine.

 

[Gridslayer]

Mixing the Triton that had tuned to a gel with alcohol did NOT remedy the problem...

 

[EngineerNate]

Try soaking the bottle in warm--hot water to soften it.

 

[Thunderbox]

Mixing the Triton that had tuned to a gel with alcohol did NOT remedy the problem...

The Triton does not mix readily with water. Do not mix it with alcohol. It needs to be mixed gently and for quite some time to mix properly. Mixing it in proportion to water of 50 ml Triton to 250 ml water and once it is mixed finish it to ratio you want. It is explained in one or more of the posts in this subject.

 

[ripblade]

The Triton does not mix readily with water. Do not mix it with alcohol. It needs to be mixed gently and for quite some time to mix properly. Mixing it in proportion to water of 50 ml Triton to 250 ml water and once it is mixed finish it to ratio you want. It is explained in one or more of the posts in this subject.

Gently? I mix the the stuff together in a tightly sealed bottle and shake the bejeeses out of it.....for as long as it takes....it's a good workout lol.