Need some Kenwood expertise

If I'm understanding your question, you're saying the less powerful amp isn't closer to its rated output than a more powerful amp at the same output?

And why do you think the manufacturer gives such rated output, again that's where it's specs are the best. The manufacturer gets to claim what the stated output is, then attach the specs at the output "they've" chosen. Or are you claiming a manufacturer would knowingly choose to rate it's amplifier at a rating where the amps specs would be inferior? Then attach "those" specs? ROFLMAO

What I think is that you are being intentionally obtuse. The manufacturer does not get to claim any output rating. The FTC specifies that calculation, at least for amps sold in the U.S. Generally, distortion levels are lower at lower output.

It is apparent that you will not, or cannot, explain your claim that the lower-rated amp is delivering more power than the higher-rated amp at a given level of speaker ouput. Of course it is not. A 300 watt amp will be delivering the same power as a 30 watt amp at equal output from the speakers (unless, of course, the lower powered amp is clipping - which is more likely to be the case than for the 300 watt amp, since the 30 watt amp is, by definition, operating more closely to its rated output; that is, the output at which it begins to clip).
 
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It is apparent that you will not, or cannot, explain your claim that the lower-rated amp is delivering more power than the higher-rated amp at a given level of speaker ouput.

Can you show where I made such a claim? You need to read more closely.
 
Also, with the 6340 having less power you're running it more in its schveet spot so to say. At any given volume level you're turning the smaller amp up just that much more to achieve the same output. You'll find many here prefer the sound of amps in the 35watt range over its larger siblings, that is until things get nasty. In example, hard to drive loads, or large power demands when the party's in full swing and you need that extra little bit the amp can't give.
 
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And the OP by now has probably has packed it in and headed for the hills... I hope this thread was at least a little helpful to him.
 
The "same" output, you're still reading something that's not there. Done here as you're unwilling to read what's in front of you without trying to read between the lines, or just not able to understand.
 
The "same" output, you're still reading something that's not there. Done here as you're unwilling to read what's in front of you without trying to read between the lines, or just not able to understand.

Hmmm. I'm reading exactly what you posted...and yes, I don't understand it...neither literally nor between the lines...which is why I asked you to explain your meaning. You quite clearly stated that one must turn up the lower powered amp to get the same output from the speakers. This is simply not true, nor is it true that an amp pushed closer to its limits provides better sound quality than one with more headroom.
 
And the OP by now has probably has packed it in and headed for the hills... I hope this thread was at least a little helpful to him.

I think that his question as regards the basis for higher-powered amps was answered pretty clearly. No one can answer his question as to why his KR-6600 receiver does not sound as good to him as the other.

As for good technicians in St. Louis, perhaps he could start a thread with that subject in the title...otherwise he will have to hope that someone in St. Louis who knows a good tech there just happens to peruse this thread.

Glen (echowars) is in Lee's Summit, about 220 miles from STL, and appears to still be dealing with some life-changing events. He is an extremely good tech, but I don't know if he is taking on new projects at the current time.
 
Optimum Sound at Optimum Levels

Tube power amplifiers sound their best at the volumes at which you actually want to enjoy them.

Just like digital systems, solid state amplifiers measure and sound their worst at low levels, and have their best performance at close to their maximum output levels where no one ever actually plays them.

For normal use with normal music at normal levels, most of us enjoy our music at about 1mW ~ 1W long-term RMS, or about 0.01W ~ 10W peak. For most applications, a 30 WPC amplifier is about right.

What's sad is that the few consumer magazines that try to publish lab results usually only plot performance down to 100mW, when in fact the most relevant power range at which we enjoy most amplifiers is from 1mW to 1W. What happens below 100mW is extremely important; that's right where most of our music lives!

http://kenrockwell.com/audio/why-tubes-sound-better.htm
 
Hi guys and gals. Relatively new to Audiokarma. I've been reading things on here for a while and have learned a bunch but I'm still pretty much a noob when it comes to vintage gear. In the last year I have been fortunate enough to purchase 2 Kenwood receivers, KR-6600 & KR-6340 Quad. I used the quad for a couple of months before I stumbled on the 6600. I liked it a lot but going from 35w RMS to 53w RMS seemed like a no brainer. I hooked the 6600 up and never looked back....until this week. I wanted to take the lid off the 6600 and clean the pots / dust out the interior. I hooked the 6340 up in its place, fired it up for a test run and couldn't believe my ears. The 6340 made my speakers come alive! I'm not sure was I was hearing before but it wasn't close to this. The 6340 out performs the 6600 by a long shot. The difference is really incredible. What I'm trying to figure out is this the 6600's way of telling me it's time to recap? Could it be simply be a better pairing to my speakers? If the 6600 needs recapped am I better off parting with it? There is only one "expert" vintage repair guy in about a hundred miles from me and he is uber slow, expensive and has some poor customer service ratings. I'd attempt to recap myself, but there is a bazillion of those things in this beast. Suggestions / Guidance? If this is posted in the wrong place I apologize. Thanks in advance for any assistance you can offer.


I can do work for you, also the cheapest guy around. Less experience, however. Recap? Done a lot of those.
 
Round and round.... Speaker efficiency should have something to do with sound from low or high wattage output. Probably covered in a different forum. I'd suggest simply the two different amps are actually preforming at different levels of... lets say condition.
 
Assuming you are referring to sensitivity (rather than efficiency), and assuming that neither amp is clipping; at a given SPL, a given set of speakers will draw precisely the same power from a 20 watt amp as from a 200 watt amp (or 2000 watt amp). Since it is running closer to its limits, the 20 watt amp may be producing a higher (though not necessarily material) level of distortiion.
 
Assuming you are referring to sensitivity (rather than efficiency), and assuming that neither amp is clipping; at a given SPL, a given set of speakers will draw precisely the same power from a 20 watt amp as from a 200 watt amp (or 2000 watt amp). Since it is running closer to its limits, the 20 watt amp may be producing a higher (though not necessarily material) level of distortiion.
Assuming you are referring to sensitivity (rather than efficiency), and assuming that neither amp is clipping; at a given SPL, a given set of speakers will draw precisely the same power from a 20 watt amp as from a 200 watt amp (or 2000 watt amp). Since it is running closer to its limits, the 20 watt amp may be producing a higher (though not necessarily material) level of distortiion.
 
As you earlier suggested, "Agree or not, the argument for higher power amps is a function of speaker sensitivity, room size, distance from speakers and headroom." Hence the personal perception for/of "the schveet spot".
As for 6 Walls dilemma, I still suggest the two different amps are preforming at different from levels of condition.
 
Hmmm. I'm reading exactly what you posted...and yes, I don't understand it...neither literally nor between the lines...which is why I asked you to explain your meaning. You quite clearly stated that one must turn up the lower powered amp to get the same output from the speakers. This is simply not true, nor is it true that an amp pushed closer to its limits provides better sound quality than one with more headroom.

I think that the point the other guy was trying to make was that the volume had to be turned up higher as a percentage of its rated power. Twenty watts of delivered output from a 35 watt receiver vice a 100 watt receiver. The volume knob will be turned a little more clockwise on the 35 watt unit.
 
I think that the point the other guy was trying to make was that the volume had to be turned up higher as a percentage of its rated power. Twenty watts of delivered output from a 35 watt receiver vice a 100 watt receiver. The volume knob will be turned a little more clockwise on the 35 watt unit.
You got it, thought I was pretty susinct in my explanation but I guess not.
 
Your logic is correct, but it would depend on the taper of the volume pot. Audio tapers can vary. IOW, it's possible for a lesser powered amp/receiver, to sound louder than a greater powered amp/receiver, with both volume controls in the same position, e.g. 9:00...IF the lesser powered amp has a more aggressive taper. When volume pots are cranked all the way open, the resistance is zero.
The position of the knob is irrelevant, the less powerful amp is closer to it's maximum output to drive the same speakers to the same decibel level as the more powerful amp plain and simple.

Why is this so hard to understand, it's not Mandarin Chinese.
 
Steve said: "I think that the point the other guy was trying to make was that the volume had to be turned up higher as a percentage of its rated power. Twenty watts of delivered output from a 35 watt receiver vice a 100 watt receiver. The volume knob will be turned a little more clockwise on the 35 watt unit."

You agreed. I was simply pointing out that if the tapers are different -- with the 35W unit having a more aggressive taper -- then the volume knob on a 35W unit may NOT have to be turned a little more clockwise.
But if you read the "entire" thread instead of just a couple of posts you would understand the position of the knob, slide control, etc was never the point, so pointless to mention, (pun intended).

Here, I've copied and pasted the post that started this, is there any mention of the volume control's position?

"Also, with the 6340 having less power you're running it more in its schveet spot so to say. At any given volume level you're turning the smaller amp up just that much more to achieve the same output. You'll find many here prefer the sound of amps in the 35watt range over its larger siblings, that is until thingsget nasty. In example, hard to drive loads, or large power demands when the party's in full swing and you need that extra little bit the amp can't give."
 
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"Here, I've copied and pasted the post that started this, is there any mention of the volume control?"

Yes.

"At any given volume level you're turning the smaller amp up just that much more to achieve the same output."

I assume "turning up" means moving the volume knob, clockwise. What would be an accurate statement, would be one stating that if each amp were outputting 15W, the 35W amp would be outputting a greater percentage of its output capability, compared to the 100W amp. I was only pointing out that volume knob position may not always be indicative of output, depending upon taper. Nothing more, nothing less. If the tapers were exactly the same between both amplifiers, then the proposition that the smaller amp requiring the volume knob to be turned up more, would be correct.

I won't even get in to preamp gain as another contributing factor...

NO

Turning up means more output, plain and simple, position of the knob is irrelevant.

If I said I turned up the volume, why would anyone assume I picked any particular point in the controls range, only that I turned it up.

Again, reading between the lines, inferring something that was never stated.



Here, I fixed it for you, edited my post above, maybe this will make it simpler for you to understand.

"Here, I've copied and pasted the post that started this, is there any mention of the volume control's position?"

No there is not.

Especially in relation to the "position" of the other amps volume control? Which by the way could be completely different, as in one has slide controls, another a knob, and another a touch control. Why in hell would anyone assume all had the same type of control and all were at the same position? Oh that's right, reading between the lines, inferring what's not there, etc.
 
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6walls, I think this thread may have inadvertently taught a valuable lesson. Sometimes it's best not to question the whys and wherefores when you've got a system you really enjoy. There's many a member here chasing what you are lucky enough to be experiencing. Revel in it.
 
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