The Technics 1200 Fascination?

For myself, I feel the tables have a couple of issues that can be readily solved. One is the waaaaay to dense of a record mat. I do use mine, but its in a sandwich config, placing the Technics mat on the bottom, then placing a much softer 2.5mm mat on top of that. That mat sandwich renders the table for all practical purposes "quiet". Secondly, when I bought my 1210, it was a returned open box item from B and H photo in NY. Well, someone F'd with the arm pivots. After some time, I finally got the arm to behave just like I want it to. If you've never set these pivot points (and don't need to), you could go down a slippery slope. Anyway, the arm now and its present cartridge (a hybrid featuring an AT440MLa body with an ATN150Sa stylus (shibata)), now produces some of the finest vinyl I have ever heard, at least in my house. Rich in detail, a happy bass line, and (on new pressings) dead quiet between songs. I imagine its much like listening to the master tapes.

Yes, I guess I am a fan boy, but the machines can certainly make the music come alive, very emotional.
 
It's a habit I have. My Empire is labeled 598MKII. The MKII is solely a revision designation to the parent model number. You'd think with my OCD that I would call it the MK2, but I just don't do it. If you want to look on eBay for tables, you have to spell it both ways (or leave the MK revision off your search word).

Yep, I know what to search for. The SP-10MK3 is called a MKIII the vast majority of the time though that's not the actual model designation. Drives me nuts.
 
I think the Technics 1200 MK2 is challenging on a couple of levels. It was produced over a long period, it is very durable, and there are a lot of modifications available.

I have a 1200MK2 produced right at the bitter end. It is a dual voltage, silver model with a Euro style plug. I started with that base and modified. It is no longer the turntable that I initially purchased.

An issue with the Technics 1200MKx series of turntables could be how commonly modifications are made -- and they are not all of the same level of craftsmanship. Very attractive changes could perform poorly when installed poorly.

I have the KAB fluid damper, but I have found increasing weight of the platter to have greater transfer to my music listening. Those are two changes that really take no technical skill.

New RCAs, tonearm rewire, power supply -- those changes could be a negative aspect of the 1200MKx if they are done poorly.
 
I have been looking into an MC cart and of course fall on the Denon dl103 time and again, would that be too heavy for the stock technics arm? It is by most accounts an incredibly lively cart that could possibly counteract any flatness that I find.
I have a SL-1210M5G with a Denon 103D going thru a CA 640P to a modded Dynaco PAS and a ST-35. Speakers are heavily modded Klipsch Cornwalls. I think it sounds great...haven't tried it with any other components. Preston
 
Alma-Audio-demo-3-17-18-1.jpg


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That's a beauty!
 
Hi pjsjr, The 103d is different from the stock 103 unit how? Are you using the additional counter weight as well as a heavier headshell or is it lighter?
 
...but its in a sandwich config, placing the Technics mat on the bottom, then placing a much softer 2.5mm mat on top of that. That mat sandwich renders the table for all practical purposes "quiet"...

What is your top mat made of? A soft rubber/foam/cork? I might try that myself (just wind up the arm to cover it)

The Technics mats get harder as time marches on too. :(
 
I actually tooled up my own mat years ago, and sold them as AR replacement mats on eBay. I have about 8 left out of the batch. I made them from 2.5mm EPDM open cell sponge, 50 durometer (black color). I think one of Herbie's silicone mats would be a close next choice, as they are made from a soft durometer silicone.

I had a steel rule cutting die made for mine, to the exact dimensions to fit an AR platter. Cork might work too.

I have a cork "Vinyl Styl" mat that I should try. https://www.ebay.com/itm/CORK-TURNT...742054?hash=item1ca31e1566:g:lFEAAOSwR31amKWF
 
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I don't find mine lacking musicality at all. The KAB fluid damper introduced a major improvement with some cartridges and I can't recommend it highly enough. Others didn't notice the change at all. For the ones that did notice the change, the results were amazing and appreciated. Low capacitance RCAs has also been a great thing, but mine came with those, so I can't compare. But I might add that if you had the high capacitance issue, that could account for lack of musicality with some, especially MM, cartridges.

I can't imagine myself really using anything else than an SL-1200. Yes, I've read all the "The SL-1200 SUCKS" websites. They are never totally convincing to me and KAB's convenient list of rebuttal arguments seems pretty convincing to me. My SL-1200 might have, but probably not, had the most number of different cartridges actually installed and auditioned on it as the ease of changing cartridges by swapping headshells perhaps is something to blame for my huge cartridge collection. I also have a Technics P Mount TT with a large collection of P Mount cartridges, so @SA-708 you're just slacking.

I might try a Marc Morin "Morinified" AR XA/XB one day. If I move my SL-1200 down to the basement to become more or less shop tool, which it would be great at because of its neutrality, quietness, ruggedness, and top specs for wow and flutter, I wonder sometimes what I'd replace it with in my main listening space. I vacillate between another SL-1200 (why not?) or something else. The only other TT that tempts me is a Marc Morin (@marcmorin) "Morinified" AR XA/XB based on an a few things, but an incredible review and tons of posts by @Mister Pig. Why not try something else for a change?

I am extremely satisfied with my SL-1200. I may qualify that by adding that I haven't spent a lot of time with other turntables. I've had a Luxman PD-210 which sounded great, and I still have a Philips 312 which is in a second system which I like very much, and also a Pro-Ject 1.2 which is also excellent, but sits somewhere on a shelf unplugged at the moment. It's a fixed mount and I just can't live with a fixed mount TT, I guess, even if the sonics are better.
^^^This^^^
 
Hi pjsjr, The 103d is different from the stock 103 unit how? Are you using the additional counter weight as well as a heavier headshell or is it lighter?
Hi, I'm using the stock headshell, no additional counterweight.

The 103D is higher compliance, tracks at 1.5, compared to 2.5-2.7 for the 103, so it's better suited to the 1200's tonearm.

The 103D has an elliptical tip, the 103's is spherical. The 103 D has an output of .25mV, the 103s is .30mV. Output Impedance is 30 Ohm for the 103D, 40 Ohm for the 103.

The D has a higher frequency 65kHz, the 103 45 kHz. Both have an aluminum pipe cantilever. HTH, Preston
 
Hi, I'm using the stock headshell, no additional counterweight.
The 103D is higher compliance, tracks at 1.5, compared to 2.5-2.7 for the 103, so it's better suited to the 1200's tonearm.
The 103D has an elliptical tip, the 103's is spherical. The 103 D has an output of .25mV, the 103s is .30mV. Output Impedance is 30 Ohm for the 103D, 40 Ohm for the 103.
The D has a higher frequency 65kHz, the 103 45 kHz. Both have an aluminum pipe cantilever. HTH, Preston

Thanks for the info! I looks like that would be a much easier way to get the "dl103" sound without the complications of a high mass tonearm.
 
I have the KAB fluid damper, but I have found increasing weight of the platter to have greater transfer to my music listening. Those are two changes that really take no technical skill.

New RCAs, tonearm rewire, power supply -- those changes could be a negative aspect of the 1200MKx if they are done poorly.

+1 on the Damper, which i think is sort of a universal thing on other turntables as well.
I agree with you that these turntables do not need modifications as many people do with their 1200's. The major Mods people do are:
Cables: Good if you use the oem replacement, or proven low capacitance cables, but using cables inferior to the oem can have negative affects as you had explained. (high capacitance, higher awg, quality of conductor etc)
Power Supply: This one interests me alot as I've seen external PSU and internal ones as well. the objective of these modifications were to reduce or eliminate any noise and interference in the power signal. in short: A Cleaner Power Signal.
ToneArm: This one I think is the most debatable mod I've always had with other 1200 users. I would say it would pose as a hit or miss with this turntable. I've heard the audible playback from 1200's equipped with VPI's , SME's and even a Dynavector. The SME and the Dynavector seemed to have more of an enhancement in the sonics and nuances, but, is that what the original recording was supposed to sound like. The answer is no. Cuttng/Mastering Engineers have always used a Stock 1200 mk2 equipped with a cartridge of their choice to achieve the most identical reproduction of the source recording. These Turntables have a Tonearm with an effective mass of 12 grams which simply means this is not exactly a high mass tonearm but not a super low mass arm neither, at 12 grams the options for cartridges are very huge. 90% of your audio reproduction quality comes from the relation between the cartridge and tone arm anyways. Cartridge Compliance and Tone-Arms have been less understood by many.

As been said a million times on AK, 1200's are indeed solid turntables that is still above par then most turntables in the market, remember when this was originally released, it was meant for the HI-Fi Market. This was and still is one of Technics flagship high Fidelity decks.
 
+1 on the Damper, which i think is sort of a universal thing on other turntables as well.
I agree with you that these turntables do not need modifications as many people do with their 1200's. The major Mods people do are:
Cables: Good if you use the oem replacement, or proven low capacitance cables, but using cables inferior to the oem can have negative affects as you had explained. (high capacitance, higher awg, quality of conductor etc)
Power Supply: This one interests me alot as I've seen external PSU and internal ones as well. the objective of these modifications were to reduce or eliminate any noise and interference in the power signal. in short: A Cleaner Power Signal.
ToneArm: This one I think is the most debatable mod I've always had with other 1200 users. I would say it would pose as a hit or miss with this turntable. I've heard the audible playback from 1200's equipped with VPI's , SME's and even a Dynavector. The SME and the Dynavector seemed to have more of an enhancement in the sonics and nuances, but, is that what the original recording was supposed to sound like. The answer is no. Cuttng/Mastering Engineers have always used a Stock 1200 mk2 equipped with a cartridge of their choice to achieve the most identical reproduction of the source recording. These Turntables have a Tonearm with an effective mass of 12 grams which simply means this is not exactly a high mass tonearm but not a super low mass arm neither, at 12 grams the options for cartridges are very huge. 90% of your audio reproduction quality comes from the relation between the cartridge and tone arm anyways. Cartridge Compliance and Tone-Arms have been less understood by many.

As been said a million times on AK, 1200's are indeed solid turntables that is still above par then most turntables in the market, remember when this was originally released, it was meant for the HI-Fi Market. This was and still is one of Technics flagship high Fidelity decks.


I was not aware that Cutting/Mastering Enigneers have always used a stock 1200 MK2 with a cartridge of their choice to achieve the most identical reproduction of the source recording.

If you ask me this is one of those post that are put out their as fact, when in truth its not factual. Over the decades their has been untold number of tables in Cutting/Mastering Shops, and who knows what cart they used, along with the fact that Technics was not even in existence when they cutting and engineer records long ago. So I call this reason to own a stock table as just plain nonsense.

You have no idea of what the original recording "was suppose to sound like", because their is no one sound that it is suppose to sound like. The artist probably argued over what is should sound like, as did many others in the process. You would have no way of knowing, just as no one else would know.

Good try.
 
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Just bought a new SL-1210GR and love it. I replaced my 1200mk2 that I bought as NOS from B&H Photo in 2013.

It's not hard to understand your fixation on the SL1200. Speaking of my own experience... ..Though the $1600 I paid for my 1210GR is a looong ways from the $450 the original 1200 sold for, it's still seems a far better deck than any other comparably priced present day TT I've seen. ..All the others $1600 tables (rega, project, thorens, etc...) all seem to be variations of the same theme: A plank of MDF dressed w/ a nice finish; A brass oil-filled bearing; an outsourced motor & rubber-band; and a fairly simple tone-arm. The Technics, by comparison, seems like work of art, and the product of tremendous engineering know how.
 
If you add up all the $300-$500 entry level tables some AK members have bought it doesn't take long before they have spent $1600 and could have purchased a SL-1200GR and be done with it.
 
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