Ramblings about system goals, listening fatigue, diminishing returns

Not in all cases. You could literally rebuild an Audio Research SP-3a preamp (among the very best in the 70s) from scratch using all new components like teflon coupling caps and it would never offer the performance of a REF6/REF2 Phono. Or a Threshold Stasis 2 and similarly it would never offer the performance of XA-200.8s.

Other factors include improved circuit topology, circuit board layout, power supply design and stiffness along with use of balanced connectivity.

Well that’s the point isn’t it, it’s only a presumption until there is a comparison of equal technology to compare design in a real time side by side comparison. You take a top 70’s to 90’s TOTL from the best review offered of that time and rebuild it with high tech modern German parts, then you do a side by side comparison. The only thing original would be the circuit boards.....everything else would be the same values, just an equal footing using the same level of technology. Until then what is better is just conjecture....
 
These are the kind of posts I love and was hoping for more of from this thread. The giant-killer systems that took a lot of research and trial & error to figure out.

Yes, I read every single tidbit of information that Google can find on something before making a purchase though in the end it's still a bit of a gamble, as indeed is any non auditioned (in your own system) audio purchase.

Hopefully, that modern flavor replaced the dreadful LM301 op amps. :)

I believe it does, yes. Seems to power 4ohm speakers just fine too which goes against most of the information out there.

This is it. Since getting mine three of my mates have also purchased them.

QUAD 405 Power amplifier AMP Copy degree 99% RCA Output Real Good sound 100W+100W Breeze Audio
http://s.aliexpress.com/Mryy2ENz?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard
 
Well that’s the point isn’t it, it’s only a presumption until there is a comparison of equal technology to compare design in a real time side by side comparison.
Which you'll never find at the top of the game. Engineers have actually learned a thing or two over the past four decades. Really. :)
 
Which you'll never find at the top of the game. Engineers have actually learned a thing or two over the past four decades. Really. :)

Again...

It’s only a presumption until a side by side comparison of equal technology and different design can be compared. I hope that engineers have learned a few things because that’s how everything can be updated. Everything that anyone has to say about anything is just an option until proven otherwise. My proposal might yield minimum improvement or a significant one.....there is no way to know until a side by side is done.
 
I believe it does, yes. Seems to power 4ohm speakers just fine too which goes against most of the information out there.
The challenge is the inherent non-linearity and harshness of that dated design. Companies have been upgrading 405s for decades using modern op amps - not to mention the company itself. Thirty five years ago, Quad upgraded them to TL-071s in the 405-2.

You can get far better sound with modern op amps or even better, Burson FET modules.
 
It’s only a presumption until a side by side comparison of equal technology and different design can be compared.
Only if you've never experimented with different power supplies, circuit topologies nor compared single-ended with balanced circuitry.

You keep/modify the old stuff and I'll enjoy the benefits of decades of progress in its totality. :)
 
I am ashamed to see the same old gang biting at the same old bait. Same old biases.

Some here should seek to remove the beam from their eye (ears?) before trying to remove the mote from OP's.

It's unbecoming. If someone wants to resort to hyperbole because they're new to the hobby, or have simply found themselves giddy and want to share, WHAT POSSIBLE DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?

What I find most embarrassing is how quickly the more fortunate seem to get their asses in a knot. Let it go, guys and girls.

All Audio, NO Attitude. Those who know better to engage new-ish members on the same tired arguments (we know which ones I speak of....cables, $$$$ vs $, etc) need to either respond gently, or not at all.
 
Only if you've never experimented with different power supplies, circuit topologies nor compared single-ended with balanced circuitry.

You keep/modify the old stuff and I'll enjoy the benefits of decades of progress in its totality. :)

That’s the basis of the side by side comparison, what you understand to be true is the basis for a hypothesis for further comparison !!!
 
Which you'll never find at the top of the game. Engineers have actually learned a thing or two over the past four decades. Really. :)
Yes but how much of that learning is used to put more stuff on the head of a pin.
 
So let's see if I'm hearing you right. You are suggesting that I can pull a "proper and suitable" candidate from the 70 ss collection. Then replace still good but known to be "obsolete" parts with new "up to date" improved parts where possible and it might sound a LOT better. I'm not talking about changing caps for caps. I talking about successfully bringing it into this century.

Actually you can get your gear to sound a lot better and you wouldn't need to spend a dime. However I know it's not how you enjoy the hobby, you want all your trophies in view and plugged in.
 
Why are possibilities discouraged and banter frowned upon and why must everyone think the same about things like opinions being enforced ????
Amen! I rejoice having folks demonstrate to me when I was a teenager that Julian Hirsch was deaf. :)

1974 was a most informative year when I was first exposed to gear that completely recalibrated my points of reference as to how good an audio system could sound.
 
The challenge is the inherent non-linearity and harshness of that dated design. Companies have been upgrading 405s for decades using modern op amps - not to mention the company itself. Thirty five years ago, Quad upgraded them to TL-071s in the 405-2.

You can get far better sound with modern op amps or even better, Burson FET modules.

Sounds very linear to my ears. It lacks the midrange focus of my tube amps, with better bass control. The only thing missing seems to be the last little bit of treble extension. No one could ever call this amp harsh either. Seems to replicate whatever the preamp feeds it.

Just tailor the sound to how you like with interconnect and tube choice. Easy as. If sounding harsh, the issue is elsewhere in your chain.
 
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