Transport problem on Pioneer CT-9R

chindokae

New Member
I have a CT-9R that I am working on. It has an odd problem with the transport. After replacing the belt I tested it with a tape and found that the pinch rollers don't pinch.

The head assembly does rise and stay in place, but not quite far enough to let the pinch rollers contact the capstans.

The upper limit stop is very positive and metallic. No plastic. I can hear that much. Looking down inside the mechanism with the reel motors off, I see a brass pin that engages a slot in the back plate when I push the head assembly up. I don't think it goes any higher than it is going unless that pin is supposed to retract, and there appears to be no way for that to happen. It appears to be coming out of the head assembly and it I can see probably 12 mm of it. It's a pretty hefty pin and there does not seem to be anywhere for it to retract to.

It looks like the head assembly is just hitting the designed upper limit.

I know some one has been in there from the misplaced screws. What I am wondering is if the pinch rollers were replaced with ones too small for the deck. Or maybe they shrunk. Normal wear is not a possibility because there is a gap between the capstans and the rollers (both sides) and wear would have stopped with them just in contact.

Does anyone know what size the pinch rollers are supposed to be? Mine measure about 17.9 mm.

Any other ideas? I am stumped at the moment.

Pin with heads down:

heads_down.JPG

Pin with heads up:

heads_up.JPG

ps: yeah, the endoscope has the wrong date. Those were taken today, 4/4/2018.
 
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Is there a number on top of the transport? Reason I ask is because the early CT9 decks had a serious design problem that caused all of them to fail in a short time. It was not a repairable problem. You had to replace the entire transport with a new design. If you have an early CT9 version, you will not be able to repair it. The new re-designed transports can be IDed with the proper number on top. Unfortunately, I don't know the number for the new transport. Google may be able to find it.
 
Is there a number on top of the transport? Reason I ask is because the early CT9 decks had a serious design problem that caused all of them to fail in a short time. It was not a repairable problem. You had to replace the entire transport with a new design. If you have an early CT9 version, you will not be able to repair it. The new re-designed transports can be IDed with the proper number on top. Unfortunately, I don't know the number for the new transport. Google may be able to find it.

I've read that, but I don't see any number on top or anywhere else. I have repaired an original one, though, and this one is definitely not the same. Appearances were misleading; that pin was not quite hitting the top. It now looks to me like it was simply misassembled. One or both of the pinch roller arm tensioning springs was blocking the head carrier plate from moving up fully. Oddly, no one before me had been that far into it. In order to get there I had to cut several factory wire ties. I'm not sure how those springs are supposed go on. Unhelpfully, the service manual has no parts breakdown for the transport, not even for belt replacement.

The only PDF I have found for this deck ends at page 37 in the middle of an alignment procedure. It seems hard to believe that they would have failed to cover belt replacement. It was hardly intuitive. There are probably more than a few missing pages.

Thanks for the hint.
 
The new, re-designed transports had a number on top. I wouldn't bother trying to fix an original transport if that is what you have. It will be nothing but problems.
 
Thanks again. I had removed the part that carried the marking and it's not the new one, but I had one of these with the original design defect, and this one no longer has it. It was retrofitted with replacement parts so that must have been very early in the game. It's just that whoever *attempted* the retrofit had two left thumbs and an inability to count. Or follow directions. Or the technical capability to notice he had one of the four tape sense arms on incorrectly.

Nothing in this one appears broken, I think the guy just botched the retrofit in amazing ways. Of the three ball bearings that float the erase head carrier, I removed four. He had somehow managed to cram a fourth one in there. Needless to say it wasn't floating, or even on straight.

The upside of this is that it appears to have sat around for decades broken and experienced no further wear. There is remarkably little wear on the heads or capstans or pinch rollers.

In any case, it costs nothing but time to tinker with it, and I find that I really miss doing that. I used to work in a shop that maintained about 200 reel-to-reel recorders that ran 24*7*365. I really enjoyed maintaining them and while this isn't exactly at that scale, it does make me happy.
 
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In the original defective transports, no part is broken or breaks. Several parts were the wrong size and that is why it didn't work. So the fact that you found no broken parts proves nothing. Pioneer did provide a kit to fix the early transports and I installed about 30 of those kits. If you are sure that transport has the kit installed then it may be repairable.
 
Is there any way of determining if the unit is a ¨new transport¨ vs old looking at the serial numbers of the deck?
 
I installed over 100 of those updated transports back when they where under warranty. The transports were complete assy's , heads, wires and all. All of the CT-R's models of that year had problems with transports, there was multiple problems, which is why they replaced the entire transport instead of individual parts. Back in the day under warranty, you replaced individual parts not assy.'s, so this showed that this mechanism was a real problem for Pioneer, to go as far to replace the whole thing. Some problems that I remember ( hell that was a long time ago) 1. The posts that held the erase head and the dummy head would pull out of the die cast mounting plate which is under the R/P head plate. 2. Pioneer used some type of teflon coating on the head rotating assy. The clearances were not right so the head would get stuck in rotation. On your problem be sure that the head is making the rotation all the way to the azimuth screw stops. If I remember, if it doesn't hit the stops then the pinch rollers won't engage all the way. Pioneer lost their ass on those models
 
I installed over 100 of those updated transports back when they where under warranty. The transports were complete assy's , heads, wires and all. All of the CT-R's models of that year had problems with transports, there was multiple problems, which is why they replaced the entire transport instead of individual parts. Back in the day under warranty, you replaced individual parts not assy.'s, so this showed that this mechanism was a real problem for Pioneer, to go as far to replace the whole thing. Some problems that I remember ( hell that was a long time ago) 1. The posts that held the erase head and the dummy head would pull out of the die cast mounting plate which is under the R/P head plate. 2. Pioneer used some type of teflon coating on the head rotating assy. The clearances were not right so the head would get stuck in rotation. On your problem be sure that the head is making the rotation all the way to the azimuth screw stops. If I remember, if it doesn't hit the stops then the pinch rollers won't engage all the way. Pioneer lost their ass on those models

Appreciate your reply Wiz but do you know if any NEW units were produced with the the new transport mechanism. Thus a proper functioning later unit is a possibility?
 
I am not sure if any of the later units had the improved transports, you would think so, but it takes awhile for corrections to go through the system. Remember from a service stand point, we only saw decks with problems, there could of been later production runs that were fine. I can't remember if Pioneer issued a service bulletin on affected S/N's range, could something for further research . If a deck came in with any transport problem, we replaced it. Sales side of the dealer, started steering customers away from sales of these units, because they were like a boomerang. They would sell them and service would see them right away, customers where pissed and rightfully so. The electronics side of the CT-R's where ok. Most of the decks where CT-7R, because it was at right price point for most customers and the most popular model, but all the CT-R's of that vintage used a similar designed transport. Another customer complaint that I just remembered is that the tapes would get warm after a long play time, because of the direct drive reel motors right behind the cassette shell. Not to step on any owners of these but, IMHO they where a bad design over all.
 
Pioneer did have an issue with the tape transports on this series. The issue was so severe that Pioneer provided complete transport replacement. The new ones supposedly fixed the problem. There were three versions of the tape transport with the "replacement" transport marked with the designation RYM-154. Any other number are the old problematical units. Decks affected besides the CT-9R are the CT-6R, 7R, 8R, 720, and 930.

Aside from the transport issue (significant in all respects) the deck is very nice with many advanced features. Tape calibration is automatic "Auto BLE" and the auto reverse feature is nice (when working properly). Really too many features to discuss here.

The heat issue is not really problematical. The tapes do get warm, but I have never had that destroy a tape. The plastic face on this unit is delicate and easily damaged, so a "mint" unit is probably not to be found.

The CT-9R has some good things going for it once some of the well known issues are resolved. Due to it's bad reputation, it is relatively inexpensive. When put into working condition, it is an excellent deck. Another feature that is nice is that there is a wired remote available (JT-216) which makes the recording easier when cueing up an LP. This deck is not however for someone who wants a rock solid unit like the CT-F1250. The CT-9R is quirky but has features that the CT-F1250 cannot match.

All that said. I have a couple of units that perform great. I did have to spend a lot of time getting their issues resolved. I have one unit that is my benchmark unit for making cassette tapes. They are superior tapes and I use my other units (CT-F950, CT-F1000, and CT-F1250) for just playback.
The long and short of it is, unless you like to work on these decks, there are more trouble free units out there to invest in.

aldena007
 
I installed over 100 of those updated transports back when they where under warranty. The transports were complete assy's , heads, wires and all. All of the CT-R's models of that year had problems with transports, there was multiple problems, which is why they replaced the entire transport instead of individual parts. Back in the day under warranty, you replaced individual parts not assy.'s, so this showed that this mechanism was a real problem for Pioneer, to go as far to replace the whole thing. Some problems that I remember ( hell that was a long time ago) 1. The posts that held the erase head and the dummy head would pull out of the die cast mounting plate which is under the R/P head plate. 2. Pioneer used some type of teflon coating on the head rotating assy. The clearances were not right so the head would get stuck in rotation. On your problem be sure that the head is making the rotation all the way to the azimuth screw stops. If I remember, if it doesn't hit the stops then the pinch rollers won't engage all the way. Pioneer lost their ass on those models


So of those "two" erase heads,only one is an actual erase head. I wondered about that on my 7r that I have 90% working now. Won't record even though it appears to be i.e.;led meters correspond to the record level adjustment. Oscillation not happening or faulty erase heads/head. I assume oscillations come from the D1189 transistors but I'm probably wrong. Thank You for the answer to the previous post, very informative to me.
 
How does it sound in play, good highs? Is the tape being skewed, have to use a mirrored cassette to really see what's going on? either pulling mounts or head not full rotating to the stops will cause this. Is the oscillator running in record?
 
How does it sound in play, good highs? Is the tape being skewed, have to use a mirrored cassette to really see what's going on? either pulling mounts or head not full rotating to the stops will cause this. Is the oscillator running in record?


Sounds great during playback on both sides. TP1 I believe is supposed to be 180mv unfortunately my fluke 8060a meter is at a shop being calibrated but my old heathkit av-2 isn't showing anything close to 180mv more like 800mv fluctuating towards 1volt. Having said that I don't really trust the old 1956 heathkit. So I'm not sure about the oscillator working properly. I should have a reliable meter come Tue or Wed. Hopefully!
 
I would use a scope on the erase head wiring to see if the oscillator is running during record. Does it erase a previously recorded tape (junk tape)?
 
I would use a scope on the erase head wiring to see if the oscillator is running during record. Does it erase a previously recorded tape (junk tape)?


No it does not erase previously recorded music. My old scope is probably less reliable than the heathkit mv meter. My old equipment is from my uncle who used to have a TV repair shop up until the mid 80s and it was old then. The only things I trust and can verify is my BK signal generator,the HP frequency counter and of course the Fluke 8060A which won't be back until mid-week.
Thanks for replying and I'll fire up sparky the scope and see if I can get stable image after smacking the side a couple of times :).
 
"Usually" the oscillator or the erase head doesn't go bad , most likely a power supply problem or control problem for the oscillator. I don't have the schematic in front of me.
 
"Usually" the oscillator or the erase head doesn't go bad , most likely a power supply problem or control problem for the oscillator. I don't have the schematic in front of me.


Ok thanks @AudioWizard I have a very small one that really strains my old eyes, it appears like a 1ohm resistor is the first thing the erase head see's, then an npn transistor. I'll break out the high power mag glass.
Thanks again.
 
I installed over 100 of those updated transports back when they where under warranty. The transports were complete assy's , heads, wires and all. All of the CT-R's models of that year had problems with transports, there was multiple problems, which is why they replaced the entire transport instead of individual parts. Back in the day under warranty, you replaced individual parts not assy.'s, so this showed that this mechanism was a real problem for Pioneer, to go as far to replace the whole thing. Some problems that I remember ( hell that was a long time ago) 1. The posts that held the erase head and the dummy head would pull out of the die cast mounting plate which is under the R/P head plate. 2. Pioneer used some type of teflon coating on the head rotating assy. The clearances were not right so the head would get stuck in rotation. On your problem be sure that the head is making the rotation all the way to the azimuth screw stops. If I remember, if it doesn't hit the stops then the pinch rollers won't engage all the way. Pioneer lost their ass on those models


@AudioWizard I have successfully accomplished fixing the ct-7R recording problem by re-flowing solder joints that were visible under the MagLite. One being the 20V supply leg from the power supply to the oscillator voltage regulator. The other thing I noticed was that the erase head shaft was loose on the reverse side so a dab of JB weld was in order. After reassembling I used some mirror tape and fabricated myself a mirror cassette for alignment! That bitch was waaayy out of wack.
After a successful alignment and azimuth adjustment, she plays great AND records great. Successfully auto reverse's and sounds good on both sides. Unfortunately that all happened once. However everything is currently working as it should except the auto reverse, but only in the mode where it reverse's by itself at tapes end. If I want to reverse it manually by pressing the reverse button,no problem!!!
Thanks for your help!
 
@AudioWizard I have successfully accomplished fixing the ct-7R recording problem by re-flowing solder joints that were visible under the MagLite. One being the 20V supply leg from the power supply to the oscillator voltage regulator. The other thing I noticed was that the erase head shaft was loose on the reverse side so a dab of JB weld was in order. After reassembling I used some mirror tape and fabricated myself a mirror cassette for alignment! That bitch was waaayy out of wack.
After a successful alignment and azimuth adjustment, she plays great AND records great. Successfully auto reverse's and sounds good on both sides. Unfortunately that all happened once. However everything is currently working as it should except the auto reverse, but only in the mode where it reverse's by itself at tapes end. If I want to reverse it manually by pressing the reverse button,no problem!!!
Thanks for your help!
I have the Pioneer CT-7R cassette deck. It is in mint condition, plays well, autoreverse works a treat, but like yours it does not erase or record. I am not understanding your fix insructions as I am not up on fixing this stuff. HELP!
 
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