Do some audiophiles really prefer flat frequency response?

[musichal]

Most of the graphic EQs used by vintage lovers introduce various types of distortion, screw with phasing and affect frequencies outside their labeled bandwidth. I believe DSP now does it much better, but I quit using EQs many years ago. The last thing I'd ever want is the once-ubiquitous Loudness toggle. It doesn't bother me in the least what others believe, dis-believe, or implement for their listening preferences, and yet someone will likely accuse me of disdaining their paradigm. What I believe and do is no skin off anyone else's nose, nor does mine get out of joint based on their approach.

 

[Ken Boyd]

I hope the OP will kindly allow me to briefly try sort something out despite the side-tracking:

While this is not the main topic, I have noticed over the years that every time tone controls and equalisation are mentioned, there appears this irritating tendency for some to step on the high ground and become disdainful without offering any basis for their attitude. I am not desirous of going off on a side-track, but the above author opened the door. (In addition he has one at a disadvantage in that one does not know his background - oh well.)

Nevertheless, I think for once it is fair to ask the basis for the above snide remark as well as the dismissive attitude of a few others regarding any kind of personal preference to correct what one feels can bring the response of one's system better in line with what one feels to be correct - if such an explanation is at all possible? Perhaps we can all learn?

(My apology, but perhaps it is time to sort this out .)

Snide remark, not at all, tone controls are notorious for needed to be cleaned with time, as they and the volume controls are pots which with time become notorious for needing cleaning.

As far as high ground or disdainful of eq's if you read all my post they clearly make a point that no one cares what you choose to use.

 

[GChief]

But my RV only has so much room! My sacrificial travel set up. On the road again.

View attachment 1210011

I am throwing the flag . My space is measured in inches. You can always make room.

That is nice for an RV!

 

[GChief]

Be a fascinating experiment to see how many folk who are perfectly satisfied with their "flat" systems, and then have their room properly voiced, would go back to the way things were ...

Been there done that, I start flat and set the room up by ear (treatments etc). My recording engineer buddies bring by all there measuring shit and typically agree the room is good running flat controls. But that is my space with my stuff, everyone’s is different. Run it how you want.

 

[Hawkeye83]

To each his own! I have no EQ to even use, so not an option for me. My system sounds good to me "flat" though. Although occasionally I'd like to boost the bass just a bit. For that, I can turn up the gain on my subwoofer. Am I curious about EQ? Yes. Am I going to go out and get one? No. I'm more interested in the auto room correction and room treatments than an EQ with "sliders."

 

[4-2-7]

A few reasons for a EQ and or tone controls
Bad room and setting the equipment up
Bad equipment
Bad hearing
Bad media
A eq mask the bad in an attempt to make it sound better for the listener.

But there is other ways to get good, better sound quality. For one thing, think about the shortest signal path.

In some equipment the circuitry and switches step all over the signal not helping anything.

Ask yourself why you don't see a eq in high end equipment setups or even in their product line. Even if they have a few tone controls on some of their equipment generally there will be none on TOTL and flagship equipment.

 

[TudorTurtle]

I don't use tone controls, except when I do.

 

[don philipe]

I like EQ and the loudness button. My hearing is not what it used to be so, for some recordings that I like but aren't recorded well I will boost certain frequencies.Mostly I can get away running flat because my room is treated and my speakers perform very well.
Another point,why would the engineers that designed the gear put tone controls in the circuit? Clearly these guys knew what they were doing,furthermore, I don't get this distortion thing.When I tweak my tone controls I have yet to hear any distortion,I don't care what the measurements say, I go by what my ears respond to.
My 2cents. Anybody want to talk about speaker wire?????

 

[Cactus Bob]

I have tone controls and rarely use them and when I do I generally revert back by the time the album side is over.

 

[4-2-7]

Another point,why would the engineers that designed the gear put tone controls in the circuit? Clearly these guys knew what they were doing,

Those engineers did what was asked of them to make something work. Marketing decides what they want to sell and at what price point, for a while it was throw everything in a one box design. How many bells a whistles can we add in a box.

We know separates are better because they don't put everything in one box. This is even expanded apon by breaking up the separates into even more boxes. Taking a preamp and separating it from the noise of AC and the switches is a big improvement. This is a two box preamp, dirty box clean box design. Normal once the controller set the selection and volume the switches are disconnected and out of the signal path. Separating a power amp into left and right mono blocks help crosstalk of the two channels, it also provides a power supply for both channels instead of sharing one.

Anyway I hope you get the point..

 

[Todd Dodds]

I have tone controls and rarely use them and when I do I generally revert back by the time the album side is over.

Same here. Sometimes fiddle around with them for a while, but always re-set to neutral before I shut down. Same with Loudness switch.
However, I've modified all my gear to filter this guy out...YMMV, and that's cool.

 

[JoeESP9]

Either way, no EQ doesn't mean a system is flat. Flat is only possible with a parametric EQ, measurement mic etc. Even if the system could produce a perfectly flat frequently response the room dictates that EQ is required for it to actually be flat. I suspect I wouldn't be a fan.

How do you know if you've never tried it.

This reminds me of when my son was about six. He refused to eat chocolate ice cream because he'd never tasted it and the color was all wrong to him. I suspect it reminded him of poop. After trying it, all he wanted was chocolate from that point on.

 

[Nixxuz]

The thing I don't understand is that you supposedly can't ever correct valleys by bumping up frequencies. If that's the case, why do EQs even have the ability to increase FR, instead of just making cuts?

 

[cwall99]

It appears to me that, as in so many other issues, we have two schools of thought:

• Set up your system so it sounds best to you
• Set up your system to reproduce, as accurately as possible, what transpired in the recording studio.

I like to think the two are closely intertwined, but hearing and taste are definitely a subjective things.

 

[EngineerNate]

My speakers have a slight BBC dip and I find them pleasing overall. I've heard others with fuller lower mids, but they're a single 6.5" aluminum cone+dome tweeter design. I'm currently not using any EQ, but I plan to setup brutefir/REW on a linux box at some point. When I do, it'll be to correct any glaring faults in the response picked up on the measurement mic, and not to boost bass/treble/mids by ear.

 

[JoeESP9]

The thing I don't understand is that you supposedly can't ever correct valleys by bumping up frequencies. If that's the case, why do EQs even have the ability to increase FR, instead of just making cuts?

You can correct valleys. What you can't correct is a null. When plotted they look like a black hole compared to a valley.

It appears to me that, as in so many other issues, we have two schools of thought:

• Set up your system so it sounds best to you
• Set up your system to reproduce, as accurately as possible, what transpired in the recording studio.

I like to think the two are closely intertwined, but hearing and taste are definitely a subjective things.

I suspect what most rational people end up with is a combination of both.

 

[StimpyWan]

The thing I don't understand is that you supposedly can't ever correct valleys by bumping up frequencies. If that's the case, why do EQs even have the ability to increase FR, instead of just making cuts?

The peaks and valleys rarely line up to the chosen frequencies supported by any particular graphic EQ. Also, the width of the peaks and valleys matter too. That's why I'll always recommend a parametric EQ over a graphic EQ. A parametric EQ allows the user to shift frequency, and zero in on a specific trouble spot, and also adjust the "Q", to match the width of the area being tweaked. Much more precise and accurate.

 

[twiiii]

Older guys with hearing difficulties always prefer flat response. Then there are the ones who want to hear every last detail whether it is natural or not. Some guys want the fastest amps they can find with less feed back to give them feel of dynamics there speakers can't produce. Its like trying to get 1000 hp to move your 3.5 ton beast where if you had a vehicle that weighed 2500 lbs a turbo charged 4 cylinder would be more than enough. I will have to admit riding once in a big super charged Bentley is probably a once in a life time experience.

 

[JoeESP9]

Wouldn't older guys with diminished high frequency acuity be the first to advocate boosting the highs? That's been my impression gathered from the many threads on AK concerning age related reduced hearing acuity. I'm usually one of the few who advocates fixing one's hearing rather than adjusting the system's frequency response.

 

[blue72]

I wish I could get flat response in-room. I've been chasing it for quite a while. I just installed a whole bunch of thick absorption panels in my room to try and tame the 100 Hz to 500 Hz SBIR. I've got 5 bands of PEQ on 4 separate channels of distributed subwoofers just to battle room modes and standing waves for the sub-120 Hz frequencies. Then I'm working on dialing in a house curve to help approximate some of the Fletcher-Munson curve. We enthusiasts listen inside of rooms. Once I discovered proper measuring equipment I realized just how inadequate a simple loudness button or bass/treble control was in taming the effects of long waves bouncing around inside of these rooms. I've found that there is flat, but then there's flat, and once you know about flat, you find out that there is another flat to aim for. It feels like Rick and Morty at this point. If I ever experience true level, I'll never want to go back to anything else.