Do some audiophiles really prefer flat frequency response?

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What is heralded as flat is not just the output from an amp (& preamp) but is the product of the whole system from source to room.
 
I've always found my systems sound better with loudness on and bass boosted a little. This thread has got me thinking of doing some listening with it set completely flat though... why are tone controls frowned upon again?

I listen to a lot of rock/pop, and the bass just doesn't sound as good without loudness. Unlike acoustic music, the whole production chain of pop music from mixing synthesized computer generated sounds in the studio to mastering on the CD is so far from pure that it seems ridiculous that there is any pure standard to aspire to.

Anyway, this thread has got me thinking I've got some listening to do.

I think it may be a misconception that a system is reproducing flat frequency response if it doesn't have tone controls. It's my understanding that there is already equalization essentially "built in" to the speakers and amplifier - this is the "voicing" that the designer chose. So even a system with no tone controls is still coloring the sound, the only difference is that in the no tone controls case the equalization is chosen by the designer, whereas in the tone controls case it is chosen by the listener. Am I correct? If that's the case an equalized system isn't less pure than an unequalized system in terms of measured response, though it is arguably more pure in terms of signal path simplicity.
 
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I've always found my systems sound better with loudness on and bass boosted a little. This thread has got me thinking of doing some listening with it set completely flat though... why are tone controls frowned upon again?

I generally only listen with Loudness turned on at low levels as that is what the manual for my SX-636 says its for. So if I start going past 9 o'clock on the volume it usually comes off and then I just boost the bass control. Sometimes I have found Loudness can make the highs too bright, or at least a little too loud compared to the rest of the mix
 
I've always found my systems sound better with loudness on and bass boosted a little. This thread has got me thinking of doing some listening with it set completely flat though... why are tone controls frowned upon again?

I listen to a lot of rock/pop, and the bass just doesn't sound as good without loudness.

I don't think anyone frowns on them, they just don't use them (or even have them) for various reasons.
I haven't heard anyone try and talk someone out of the use of them on this thread at all.

The biggest reasons I don't like tone controls is they don't just bump one frequency, they alter a significant range.
My integrated amp even has turnover frequency adjustments on the tone controls and I still don't like how much gets changed the few times I've tried them.

I got good speakers and spent time with placement and room treatments. That's taken the need to fiddle with tone controls out of the picture for me.

I still need to get a calibrated mic and REW so who knows. I'm probably talking out me buttocks and my room response looks like a topo map of the Rockies.
 
I generally only listen with Loudness turned on at low levels as that is what the manual for my SX-636 says its for. So if I start going past 9 o'clock on the volume it usually comes off and then I just boost the bass control. Sometimes I have found Loudness can make the highs too bright, or at least a little too loud compared to the rest of the mix

Loudness engaged for low level listening may actually help flatten the system response if FLAT is your desired outcome.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???!!!! Mind blown.


Listening with no tone controls or tone controls at "0" may not actually be producing a flat system response.

Whaaaaaa???!!! Blown again.


Factors other than tone controls may influence the system response.

Whaaaaaaaat?!!! Stop, my head can't take it anymore.


Just say NO to tone control debates.
 
Ive learned to listen flat. It has made me understand and also hear the difference speaker placement makes. I might throw the loudness switch at very low volume as an expariment.
 
FWIW: Most switch type loudness controls are driven from what's known as a 50% tap on the volume control potentiometer. This means that at lower volumes you get greater compensation. As the level approaches 50% rotation the loudness compensation is attenuated with little to no compensation much past that 50% point.

The best loudness compensation schemes are the variable ones as available on many Yamaha products. With variable loudness you turn the loudness control all the way up and use the regular volume control to set the maximum listening level. You then use the variable control to lower the volume from "reference" with a progressively increasing amount of compensation as the level is lowered.

Some have suggested that all these types do is insert a variable notch filter. This is not so as the actual level of the bass and treble is progressively reduced. It's just not reduced as much as the midrange.
 
A system with a truly flat frequency response tends to sound too bright to many people. That's why "purists" who are opposed to using tone controls or a loudness curve often prefer the "warmer" sound of vinyl's non-flat frequency response, as opposed to CDs.
 
How do you know if you've never tried it.:biggrin:

This reminds me of when my son was about six. He refused to eat chocolate ice cream because he'd never tasted it and the color was all wrong to him. I suspect it reminded him of poop. After trying it, all he wanted was chocolate from that point on.:rockon:

No real need. I already enjoy it as it is and would rather not complicate things further. I really dislike having to troubleshoot anything when I just want to relax and listen to some music. Everything is manual.

I've been working in IT since the late 90's and would rather avoid anything resembling modern technology when I get home. More complicated is just more sh*t to go wrong ;)
 
A system with a truly flat frequency response tends to sound too bright to many people. That's why "purists" who are opposed to using tone controls or a loudness curve often prefer the "warmer" sound of vinyl's non-flat frequency response, as opposed to CDs.
I agree with the first point, but disagree with the second. If anything, LPs have greater bandwidth at the top than the brick wall filtered Red Book standard.

I find it is the speaker that needs to not follow a truly flat response up top for a natural sounding result or have a contour control to limit it.
 
No real need. I already enjoy it as it is and would rather not complicate things further. I really dislike having to troubleshoot anything when I just want to relax and listen to some music. Everything is manual.

I've been working in IT since the late 90's and would rather avoid anything resembling modern technology when I get home. More complicated is just more sh*t to go wrong ;)

For someone who eschews "modern technology" you sure have plenty of it. I'm surprised you have no vinyl.
 

There ... fixed it for ya ...

vinyls-sign.jpg
 
Theoretically, all that equalization should be done in the recording and mastering room. Therefore, some would say if your system is good enough, no further changes should be made, and you are hearing close to what the engineers/artist wanted you to hear.


"you are hearing close to what the engineers/artist wanted you to hear."
How would some other person say a "sound Engineer or Artist" for that matter know what I wanted to hear?:)
 
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