Underdog hi-fi components

This "underdog" is well known — the Superphon Revelation preamp. As cheap looking as it gets, but glorious sound and wonderful phono stage. Only $400 back in the day, and often fetches above that now — but can till be found, if not for peanuts, maybe for crushed-almonds. Easily equals or surpasses SS preamps costing $1000. In fact, I got mine after comparing it to a "high end" Audible Illusions tube preamp for two days — I wanted to prefer the AI, but couldn't. The Superphon smoked it.

Another: Klipsch KG1 — an almost unknown Kipsch 2-way. I compared them to KEF Reference 101, and Infinfinity Modulus with Emit-K ribbon, both high-end classic 2-ways. The Klipsch surprisingly equalled them for detail and soundstage, and sounded much "bigger", almost like a good floorstander. With subs filling in below its 50z roll-off, it's a great system.

And one more speaker: Infinity Primus P152. I had low-to-no expectations, but for $10 why not? They astonished me — and I'm not an Infinity fan. There's a review on Amazon that analyzes them perfectly. I know, Amazon reviews usually don't mean much, but this guy was a pro and it reads like a serious review from TAS in the good old days. And they truly cost peanuts.

This is my favorite kind of thread! I hope we get a lot more posts...
Me, too. Gear that doesn't get hyped but performs well, can actually be obtained without selling a kidney!
 
@birchoak — Some advice needed, Birch. I have two of the RA-100's. Both thrift shop finds, a year apart, both without a scratch, for less than peanuts. Never used them, except a brief test to be sure they work.

Apart from build and reliability, can you give me an idea of their sound? I associate pro-amps with a "flat" sound, voiced that way for accuracy in monitoring — while I prefer a more "musical" voicing. I know these adjectives are poor descriptors, but I hope you get what I mean.

I always thought of trying them as mono blocks, paralleled for double output, bridged if possible, but never did it. Too much work to get a result I thought I wouldn't like. My son used one in his system and it drove his Thiels beautifully, and loud — but he mostly plays "electronica" and it's hard to judge with that kind of music.

Please inspire me to try them. Thanks!
Bimasta, I ran it with a small Behringer mixing board (four channels, I think) and it sounded the nuts with Cambridge Soundworks M80s--I also used it to power some 4 ohm speakers I made and it was able to unleash its full 100 watts on them (actually, I never turn my amps all the way up; that just sounded good!). The mixing board looks like a toy but it is no toy, despite the reasonable price and compact size, and ran extremely quiet. You get three tone pots per channel: bass/mid/treble and I was able to get a rich, full sound from the amp. Yes, this is more in the domain of live sound/recording studio equipment, but I didn't care.

I had a big Onkyo power amp with giant VU meters and that thing sounded so flat I wanted to cry. I was running it with some swishy Yamaha pre-amp and I couldn't get much bass out it--I think it was the Yamaha's lab queen tendencies. I sold both but should have kept the Onkyo and tried a warmer pre-amp.

Do you have any old receivers with PRE/MAIN RCA jacks? If so, you can pull the jumpers and try using one of them as a pre-amp. I had a nice Harman Kardon 630 Twin that I used as a pre-amp with a TubeCube 7 and it sounded very warm (until I tried to put the jumpers back in with the HK on, effectively killing it!). I would think your average Marantz, Sansui, NAD, etc. receiver with this capability would imbue the Alesis with warmth while giving the equipment a "face" (most power amps look so . . . I dunno, plain? not always sure if they're even on!).
 

Realistic STA-740, picked it up for $5 at a garage sale. It was dirty as hell but cleaned up real nice. It has a very detailed open sound that's pretty addictive.

Luxman R-113, the best BOTL receiver I've ever heard. I mostly use it as a preamp, it displaced my Hafler DH-110 and my Kenwood Basic C1.
I like that Realistic! True underdog material there. Never even heard of that one.
 
Just an observation and an educated guess, based on your two recent threads it appears you're looking for something.
The disappointed thread and the overachiever thread.
Maybe if you share we can save you some time
Also while our impressions are useful , what we were looking for, trying to achieve might not be what you're looking for, that is, the observations are useful to a point but you really have to hear stuff for yourself
Ha ha! No, I just love talking about this stuff. I have several systems and each one sounds absolutely amazing to me. No need to save me time as I am a professional time waster. But thanks for the kind thought. Trust me, when I am actively searching for something you will definitely know about it!
 
What makes something an underdog hi-fi component? For example, a quick search on this site will find all sorts of posts about the Sansui 800 that exhaust every superlative known to humankind. So, help me out here. Define what underdog means in this context.
I feel a need to reel myself in a bit with regard to the 800: While it does sound quite good, I think the charm lies in its small stated power rating and bland looks; you just don't expect it to sound like it does--like that circus car twenty clowns get out of: how did they do that?. The Titans are exactly the same: if you saw them at a church rummage sale or on the side of the road on trash day, you probably wouldn't give them a second look. There is literally no indication that these are great-sounding speakers; the ones I had you couldn't even get the grills off. But they punched above their weight and were filled with magic smoke. They weren't Totem Dreamcatchers and I don't think anybody would prefer them to a high-end bookshelf speaker, but you can get them cheap. Maybe this thread is about comparatively cheap gear that doesn't look flashy but sounds surprisingly good.
 
+1 on this. The owner of a local audio store turned me onto the Revelation about a decade ago when I was looking for a preamp to go with my McIntosh MC2120 power amplifier, but couldn't afford a C27 or just about any other McIntosh (or similar) preamp. He asked me if $225 was beyond my means, I replied no. We drove to his house, and he handed me an early Revelation which had recently been repaired (minor shipping damage). I was a bit underwhelmed at the lack of inputs, but the sound was excellent. Eventually, I got a good deal on a Pioneer SPEC-1 which had more inputs (and came with a SPEC-4), so I set the Revelation aside for awhile.

Some time later, I needed to put together a demo system for a local audio get-together, and grabbed two components I happened to have lying around, my Dynaco ST-70 and the Revelation. I was so impressed by how good they sounded together that I put them to use in my office system, which is where they sat until recently, when the Revelation developed a nasty hum in the right channel. :( I'm hoping that replacing the filter capacitors will alleviate the problem. Here's a picture of the pair in happier times:

officestereo.jpg


Anyway, here's my choice for 'underdog' hifi component, though you might not think so: the Sansui AU-70. I had little to no idea it existed until I came across one at a local hamfest last year. At first, I thought it was early solid-state, until I looked around the back and saw tubes. Once I took the top cover off, I was greeted with the largest output transformers I've ever seen in an EL84-type amp. I still have yet to replace all of the gray oil caps under the hood, but what I've heard thus far has me quite impressed. :music:

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au70_top.jpg

That's a sweet little amp you have there. So simple looking! Could be an old PA system out of a grade school, but no, it's actually a cool tube amp with big muscles! Under the radar!
 
"Here's a picture of the pair in happier times:"

Ok, I'm sorry, but that just sounded so funny the way you put it. I'm not laughing at the amp's problem; it's happened so many times to me, too that I have to laugh at your phrasing.
 
A non-amplifier submission: Celestion DL series, and specifically the DL-8. I've had a pair of these for a couple years now and they still amaze me. They legitimately dig down to 45 hz and the tweeters are truly something special - same tweeter as the more famous SL series but with a thin aluminum surface instead of copper.

813418-celestion-dl8.jpg
 
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That's a sweet little amp you have there. So simple looking! Could be an old PA system out of a grade school, but no, it's actually a cool tube amp with big muscles! Under the radar!
Yep, it's quite an oddity in Sansui's integrated amplifier lineup. Introduced in 1964, it was the first member of the AU-series (previous integrated amplifier models had been offered under the SM line), and as far as I know, the only one to sport a two digit suffix (at least until they started adding letters before the digits, which doesn't count IMO :p). Like their tubed receivers from the same era (500/1000/A), it uses a solid-state phono stage, but the rest of the signal chain is tubed (five 12AX7s, and four 7189s, in this case).

Sansui introduced the AU-111 a year later, sporting the black faceplate which became the series' hallmark for many years afterwards. As far as I know, the AU-70 was the only Sansui integrated amplifier to sport a silver faceplate until the '80s. I can see why Sansui adopted the black faceplate, as the AU-70 looks like numerous other pieces of audio gear from that era.

Another oddity of the AU-70 are those little meters on the front panel. They're actually meant for measuring the unit's power output, with a range switch (5/10/25W) on the back panel. As far as I know, it's the only AU-series model to sport any sort of front panel meters until the AU-G99X from around 20 years later (the CA-3000 preamp had VU meters, but that's not an integrated amp).
"Here's a picture of the pair in happier times:"

Ok, I'm sorry, but that just sounded so funny the way you put it. I'm not laughing at the amp's problem; it's happened so many times to me, too that I have to laugh at your phrasing.
Yeah, the phrase seemed appropriate. :D The 'relationship' between the Dynaco and Superphon lasted over eight years; other than a brief 'lost weekend' which the Superphon spent driving the ST-70's younger/smaller cousin, the ST-35, it'd been many years of 'wedded bliss' before the 'separation'. The ST-70 is currenly rekindling an old romance with its previous girlfriend, a PAS-2, though I'm definitely hoping for reconciliation between the 'married' couple. :) Here's a old picture from early 2010 which can either be considered the beginning of their 'engagement', or their 'wedding day', depending on how you think about it:
frankwinterfest2010_mysetup.jpg

Yours truly can be seen looking like a low-rent version of the 'father of the bride' on the right.......... :D
-Adam
 
The AU-D5 and AU-D7 had power meters and were around 1980/81.
Duly noted. I was going by the list on The Best of Sansui, which doesn't include those models for some reason. I figured there had to be some integrated amplifiers of theirs which had metering after the AU-70, but most of the models listed there are meter-less (including the massive AU-9900, which I figured would've had meters, but didn't according to the photos on that site). I haven't encountered all of their integrated amplifier models in my travels, which is why I qualified my answer with "as far as I know."
-Adam
 
Those two amplifiers are excellent in performance too. Fully DC from input to output and ruler flat.
More underdogs, then. :) I checked the Sansui gallery on classic-audio.com, and it listed various integrated amplifier models which The Best of Sansui doesn't, including a few which feature meters of some sort. Included in that list are the AU-20000 from 1976/1977 (which, from the looks of this picture, does have power meters), the A-40 (not part of the AU series), and the A-80 (ditto). Oddly, the AU-D7 and D5 still aren't listed, so my underdog comment above stands. ;)
-Adam
 
Do Chinese copies of great gear at relatively cheap prices count?

If so I'm nominating the Quad 405 and darTZeel NHB-108B power amp copies. Here's a shot of my NHB-108B this afternoon

IMG_20180617_164309-2744x2056.jpg

Otherwise quite certainly the Realistic 42-2101 and 42-2109 phono stages. After a recap this are right up there with some quite expensive gear.

The Schiit Saga is easily the best preamp I've ever run. Very very transparent.
 
A non-amplifier submission: Celestion DL series, and specifically the DL-8. I've had a pair of these for a couple years now and they still amaze me. They legitimately dig down to 45 hz and the tweeters are truly something special - same tweeter as the more famous SL series but with a thin aluminum surface instead of copper.

813418-celestion-dl8.jpg

I have a pair of their little brothers, the DL6, I picked up at Goodwill about a month ago for 20 bucks. Not as much bass as the larger DL8, but still a pretty decent sounding little speaker. Great for a bedroom or dorm room set up.
 

Realistic STA-740, picked it up for $5 at a garage sale. It was dirty as hell but cleaned up real nice. It has a very detailed open sound that's pretty addictive.

Luxman R-113, the best BOTL receiver I've ever heard. I mostly use it as a preamp, it displaced my Hafler DH-110 and my Kenwood Basic C1.

Good call! These days, when I think of underdogs, I think of many of the Realistic and Modular Component Systems (MCS) products that were sold as house brands by Radio Shack and J.C. Penney's back in the day. They were OEMed by some very reputable manufacturer's, but usually fly under the radar compared to the "name brand" models of similar vintage and specs.

I have two Realistic turntables, a LAB 440 and a Realistic Elac Miracord 45.

Crime_of_the_Century_Lab_440.jpg


Power_Station_1.jpg


I have $45 in both put together, including the cartridges that were OEMed for Realistic by Shure. I also have an MCS 6601 that was made by Panasonic that came with another OEM Shure cartridge and a free "extra needle" that is actually a Signet TK10ML that I am currently running on the LAB 440.

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:
Signet_TK10_ML_3.jpg
 
A couple more vintage items that I think quality as underdogs. Both punch well about their size/weight.

The Sherwood S-7100A receiver (14 WPC) and the JBL L19A speakers. The little Sherwood is just a very sweet sounding little receiver, and I find the simplistic, uncluttered look, with a real walnut veneer case (unusual in a BOTL model even back in the early 1970s) very attractive.

Sherwood_S-7100_A_1.jpg


Sherwood_S-7100_A_2.jpg


Sherwood_S-7100_A_3.jpg


The little L19A are the fraternal twins (same drivers, similar crossover) of the better known, more popular, more desirable, more expensive 4310B Control Monitors. I have a pair of both and after refoaming and recapping both, the little L19As sound every bit as good as the 4301Bs.

Pretenders_Learning_to_Crawl.jpg


I'm setting up a system for my girlfriend's new place that will consist of an MCS 3233 receiver driving the LBL L19A. She came over last night and auditioned several pair of speakers and chose the L19A, and it wasn't close. She really loved the way they sound (so do I).
 
I love the S-7100a, but this site is filled with posts from people singing it's praises - it hardly seems unknown or underappreciated.
 
I love the S-7100a, but this site is filled with posts from people singing it's praises - it hardly seems unknown or underappreciated.

It depends on how you define underdog. The term doesn't necessarily mean unknown or underappreciated. It generally refers to a smaller, weaker, less physically imposing competitor (i.e. David vs. Goliath is probably the most famous underdog story). At only 14 WPC and diminutive in stature, the little S-7100A has vanquished many larger, more powerful competitors.

That's why I specifically mentioned it in conjunction with the JBL L19A speakers (little 8" two-ways with a paper cone tweeter). They are both very small and unassuming, but punch well above their weight class in terms of performance. I've personally seen many, much larger speakers and bigger more powerful receivers/amps come and go, but continue to enjoy the little Sherwood and the baby JBLs.
 
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