9.2 Home Theater Speaker Recommendations

Yeah, being a JBL guy I was hoping to get him into something similar to what member JuniorJBL has but that was way more time and effort any of us had.

Hmmm...wonder if any of JBL Synthesis speakers are in the price range? Probably not.

The JBL Studio 580 appears to be JuniorJBL approved and rather reasonably priced on Amazon.

You can have a lot of fun with used and/or DIY speakers (JBL drivers, of course) but that probably isn't an option for the FIL.
 
Guys, those are terrible numbers given the published specifications ...

Which numbers; wattage or distortion? Or multichannel watts?

I've read many of the various home theater magazines over many years. The S&V test figures (for the 3060's multichannel output) is fairly typical, and actually better than most. Some well regarded (and more expensive) AVR's have tested worse. But still, magazine review testing isn't reflective of actual home use. Most surround mixes don't have all channels powered flat out. Sound levels vary constantly, never taxing all channels at once, or for short duration's, when they do.

Oh, here's Yamaha's published specs for the 3070. To me, not so bad.

Amplifier Section Channel 9.2
Rated Output Power (1kHz, 2ch driven) 165 W (8 ohms, 0.9% THD)
Rated Output Power (20Hz-20kHz, 2ch driven) 150 W (8 ohms, 0.06% THD)
Maximum Effective Output Power (1kHz, 1ch driven) (JEITA) 230 W (8 ohms, 10% THD)
Dynamic Power / Ch (Front L/R, 8/6/4/2 ohms) 175 / 220 / 295 / 410 W

Though, I do wish they would post 5 channel output figures at well. It is after all, an AVR.
 
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Hmmm...wonder if any of JBL Synthesis speakers are in the price range? Probably not.

The JBL Studio 580 appears to be JuniorJBL approved and rather reasonably priced on Amazon.

You can have a lot of fun with used and/or DIY speakers (JBL drivers, of course) but that probably isn't an option for the FIL.

I forgot about the 580's! They have gotten good reviews from what I have read in the past. We will have to sit down and take a closer look at all of the speaker options presented in the thread.
 
There are lots of very good internet web direct speaker companies too. Most offer very good value. Audioholics magazine has a list of the better companies. One of these could be an option as well.
 
I have disagree with those who say you won't likely do this or that with your system. Let me tell you everyone pushes their system to hard from time to time and with HT systems with all the exaggerated LFE and special sound effects you will be pushing system far harder than you can imagine unless you have very efficient speakers. I was in the repair branch of the company for 10 years, but even though when I moved on to installation and then engineering and design when systems started failing and there didn't seem to be a reason or an easy fix I was they called on. 4 ohm Speakers with less than 96 db efficiency were one cause of many amps failing. Speakers failing was usually caused by amps clipping because they weren't designed to perform as promised, which is the case here. Another issue was folks were trying to use home Stereo speakers most of which didn't have the necessary dynamic range with power available or if there was sufficient power for the level the speakers couldn't handle it. I admit I use NAD AVR with my M&K speakers in my RV and the listening space including the Kitchen is about 13 wide and 22 ft long. The systems runs out of power even with NADS soft clipping circuits. I haven't blown any speakers, because I back off the levels at the first sign of stress. All three front speakers are identical, this saves me a lot of grief as the sound levels match the sound spectrum is the same from all three speakers and the subwoofer is strong enough to match the 5 total speakers. But I have watched numerous movies lately even on my big system at home where I normally use around .5 watts for the spoken word and the peaks and low frequency signals are driving my amps to over 100 watts per channel. Thats a totals over 1000 watts guys and speakers are rated at 95.5 db at 1 meter and I'm not counting the power to the side speakers which could be another 100 watts. So don't ever get the idea that you won't be using your power. Speakers are not resistors for sure and are always more demanding with their reactive load requirements that resistors don't have. If you will read the speaker tests at Stereophile and HiFi News you will find very few speakers that have a friendly impedance curve anymore. Speaker designers assume everyone is using SS amps that can drive below 4 ohm loads and truly there are very few AVR that can successfully for any extended period. Just look at the AVRspecs of the unit under discussion. There are reasons Better Klipsch, JBL, M&K, HT speakers systems are expensive. Sure you can make an older EV, Altec or Frazier system work, but thats because they were designed to produce 115 to 120 db with out stress when configured properly. So do your home work and if you have make a compromise do it with understanding, we almost all have make choices we would rather not make. Remember speakers are always the most important selection that you make first.
 
twiiii is correct - the dynamic range available from today’s movies on Bluray warrants real amplifiers. Not imposters hiding behind marketing speak.
 
To me, it's a matter of inclination and budget. What fits where, and at what I want to spend. So for me, an AVR works. I'm not claiming it will work for everyone, nor would I. If I had a dedicated listening or home theater room, I'd opt for multiple dedicated 20amp outlets, separates, including stereo and or monoblock amps, heck, maybe even a rear projector set up. But, I live in a home, with a family, that like to listen to music and watch movies, as much as I do. So, a simpler AVR is totally acceptable and appreciated. By all. Though my Yamaha has far better sound quality than it receives credit for. Perfectly capable for our needs. But I'm not asking it to drive Infinity Kappa 9s, Apogee Scintilla's, or something from Wilson. Just simple AR's and NHT's. And for that, it works. Most likely, for the OP's father-in-law too. Especially since it's what he already owns.

Now, back to speakers. Any more ideas? :D
 
On the amp issue, there are tons of people here running vintage receivers that put out 35-65wpc and I don't see anyone deriding that gear. Different strokes.

At 89db/w@1m 50w is a lot of sound, and again, even with all the dynamics in current movies, it's not all full spectrum and not all 100% in every channel all at the same time. Add in that 99% of home theater setups are crossing everything below 80-100hz to a dedicated sub with it's own amp... 50wpc is likely plenty adequate for your average living room.

On the speaker front, is PSB making anything decent these days? Back when my dad put together oro first HT I was pretty impressed with their performance/$.
 
On the speaker front, is PSB making anything decent these days? Back when my dad put together oro first HT I was pretty impressed with their performance/$.

Back in the day, an audiophile managed to make himself head of a government testing lab and provided basically unlimited R&D to a nascent Canadian speaker industry. Saner heads have prevailed since...
 
I have disagree with those who say you won't likely do this or that with your system. Let me tell you everyone pushes their system to hard from time to time and with HT systems with all the exaggerated LFE and special sound effects you will be pushing system far harder than you can imagine unless you have very efficient speakers. I was in the repair branch of the company for 10 years, but even though when I moved on to installation and then engineering and design when systems started failing and there didn't seem to be a reason or an easy fix I was they called on. 4 ohm Speakers with less than 96 db efficiency were one cause of many amps failing. Speakers failing was usually caused by amps clipping because they weren't designed to perform as promised, which is the case here. Another issue was folks were trying to use home Stereo speakers most of which didn't have the necessary dynamic range with power available or if there was sufficient power for the level the speakers couldn't handle it. I admit I use NAD AVR with my M&K speakers in my RV and the listening space including the Kitchen is about 13 wide and 22 ft long. The systems runs out of power even with NADS soft clipping circuits. I haven't blown any speakers, because I back off the levels at the first sign of stress. All three front speakers are identical, this saves me a lot of grief as the sound levels match the sound spectrum is the same from all three speakers and the subwoofer is strong enough to match the 5 total speakers. But I have watched numerous movies lately even on my big system at home where I normally use around .5 watts for the spoken word and the peaks and low frequency signals are driving my amps to over 100 watts per channel. Thats a totals over 1000 watts guys and speakers are rated at 95.5 db at 1 meter and I'm not counting the power to the side speakers which could be another 100 watts. So don't ever get the idea that you won't be using your power. Speakers are not resistors for sure and are always more demanding with their reactive load requirements that resistors don't have. If you will read the speaker tests at Stereophile and HiFi News you will find very few speakers that have a friendly impedance curve anymore. Speaker designers assume everyone is using SS amps that can drive below 4 ohm loads and truly there are very few AVR that can successfully for any extended period. Just look at the AVRspecs of the unit under discussion. There are reasons Better Klipsch, JBL, M&K, HT speakers systems are expensive. Sure you can make an older EV, Altec or Frazier system work, but thats because they were designed to produce 115 to 120 db with out stress when configured properly. So do your home work and if you have make a compromise do it with understanding, we almost all have make choices we would rather not make. Remember speakers are always the most important selection that you make first.

I first would point out that engaging the 'soft clipping' of the NAD reduces the output wattage significantly. This from a Stereophile test of the NAD C372,

With its commutating output-stage voltage rails and the option of Soft Clipping, the NAD's maximum output power will depend on the test circumstances. Driven with a continuous tone without Soft Clipping engaged, the amplifier's plot of THD+N percentage against output power (fig.4, lower trace) was conventional, with the THD buried in the noise until just before the point where the output waveform began to square. At clipping (1% THD+N), the NAD gave out 190W with both channels driven (22.8dBW), slightly higher than the specified 180W. Engaging Soft Clipping increased the distortion above a few watts output due to the waveform rounding that occurs, and reduced the continuous 1% power to 125W into 8 ohms (21dBW, fig.4, upper trace).

There is another solution to increasing output besides getting more efficient speakers which the OP may or may not like. This is using a power amp and hooking it up to the preamp outs of the Yamaha. I would also suspect that the father in law of the poster isn't likely to be listening at headbanger levels, but you could test it out by using a smartphone meter app or the old radio shack sound meters in tha theater room. I'm currently listening to Allman Bros. Live at the Fillmore at what I consider to be loud levels, but it only measures at 85 db.

Finally, another suggestion one that's likely to piss you off. You might want to break up that passage into sections, e.g.

I have disagree with those who say you won't likely do this or that with your system. Let me tell you everyone pushes their system to hard from time to time and with HT systems with all the exaggerated LFE and special sound effects you will be pushing system far harder than you can imagine unless you have very efficient speakers. I was in the repair branch of the company for 10 years, but even though when I moved on to installation and then engineering and design when systems started failing and there didn't seem to be a reason or an easy fix I was they called on. 4 ohm Speakers with less than 96 db efficiency were one cause of many amps failing. Speakers failing was usually caused by amps clipping because they weren't designed to perform as promised, which is the case here.

Another issue was folks were trying to use home Stereo speakers most of which didn't have the necessary dynamic range with power available or if there was sufficient power for the level the speakers couldn't handle it. I admit I use NAD AVR with my M&K speakers in my RV and the listening space including the Kitchen is about 13 wide and 22 ft long. The systems runs out of power even with NADS soft clipping circuits. I haven't blown any speakers, because I back off the levels at the first sign of stress. All three front speakers are identical, this saves me a lot of grief as the sound levels match the sound spectrum is the same from all three speakers and the subwoofer is strong enough to match the 5 total speakers. But I have watched numerous movies lately even on my big system at home where I normally use around .5 watts for the spoken word and the peaks and low frequency signals are driving my amps to over 100 watts per channel. Thats a totals over 1000 watts guys and speakers are rated at 95.5 db at 1 meter and I'm not counting the power to the side speakers which could be another 100 watts. So don't ever get the idea that you won't be using your power.

Just a suggestion and please don't hurt me.:eek:
 
He ended up going with the Klipsch offering. Amazon ran a package deal that was too good to pass up.

Here is what he has, all in Black:

Left and Right Mains: RP-280F
Center: RP-450C
Surround (Middle and Rear): RP-240S
Subwoofers: R-115SW

One of the subwoofers came slightly damaged on the base and Amazon gave him basically a BOGO to keep it. Other than the sunken in floor and carpet he did all of the work himself. I have not had a chance to watch anything on it yet unfortunately.
IMG_1376.JPG IMG_1377.JPG IMG_1383.JPG
Thanks,
Scott
 
That looks great! A very nice installation. One question, where is the Klipsch center? Behind a perf screen? Maybe the camera angle doesn't show it?
 
He ended up going with the Klipsch offering. Amazon ran a package deal that was too good to pass up.

Here is what he has, all in Black:

Left and Right Mains: RP-280F
Center: RP-450C
Surround (Middle and Rear): RP-240S
Subwoofers: R-115SW

One of the subwoofers came slightly damaged on the base and Amazon gave him basically a BOGO to keep it. Other than the sunken in floor and carpet he did all of the work himself. I have not had a chance to watch anything on it yet unfortunately.
View attachment 1367352 View attachment 1367353 View attachment 1367354
Thanks,
Scott
That is awesome!
 
If you have the Money....this is what I would like compare against the JBL Cinema series[URL='http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/cinema-market#.XCQpP-5Ok0M'][/URL]
[URL='http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/cinema-market#.XCQpP-5Ok0M'][/URL]

Interesting, I didn't know they even made pro gear. The appeal for a DIY with JBL components so readily available was there but time was not unfortunately. For me if I build anything it will be JBL/Crown. The newer DCi Crown Amps with 8 outputs at 300+ are quite nice.

I like you setup

Thanks,
Scott
 
Thanks! It's in front of the screen on a little stand

View attachment 1367903

Hey Thanks. And thanks for the arrow, pointing at the center. Even I can figure that one out! :D

Plus, that theater room must be bigger than I realized? The Klipsch RP450C isn't a small center, but it looks small in comparison to the room.

Regardless, I hope your Father-in-Law enjoys his new toys. A fine set up. Please let us know how it sounds, once you've experienced it? :)
 
Yes, please crank up some tunes and let us know how you think it sounds for music. Concert Blu-rays are a nice test.
 
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