Pioneer PL-707 or Sony PS-X600 which would you choose?

Mr.Jim

President of nothing
Subscriber
Looking for a second table and am possibly zeroing in on these two. Both excellent condition, both the same price. Is one notably better than the other? Cartridge is no issue, as I will get a new one, both come with usable " good for now cartridges".
 
Thanks.I don't know anything about turntable and I'm just researching buying my first but in have heard good things about 707
 
Are you buying these in person or trying to by them online? Did you look up specs on vinylengine and compare them yet?
 
Can't speak for the Sony, but that Pioneer is a very good table, don't let that 0.015 vs 0.025 difference make you think that it is bad at keeping speed. I can tell you that the speed is rock solid steady on it, at least on mine it is. $300 is a pretty good price for one too.
 
im a little confused, when they say that it needs the needle replaced, does that mean the stylus? if i buy a cartridge and a stylus does it come with a needle? this is already overwhelming. the TT that i bought comes with the caveat that the needle needs to be replced. i am buying an ortofon OM10 with stylus. so does that take care of the needle issue or not?
 
The major difference between the Pioneer and the Sony is the much better tonearm on the Sony, due to the fact it’s a Biotracer. That damps the low frequency resonance almost completely, and removes one of the major causes of mistracking and distortion, as well as allowing any cartridge to be a good match with the arm, since effective mass is no longer an issue (the effective mass electronically becomes virtually zero, as any undue tonearm movement is resisted by the Biotracer motors). You can see how good they are on warped or off-centre records, where conventional tonearms have a lot of stylus cantilever movement, while with the Biotracer tonearms, the cantilevers don’t move, despite the tonearm moving up and down or from side to side!

So you get an excellent turntable, with one of the greatest tonearms ever made (the other contenders are all electronic – either Sony Biotracer, JVC Electro-Dynamic Servo, or Denon Dynamic Servo Tracer tonearms, with conventional tonearms of any brand a long way behind in tracking, distortion and resistance to external vibration).

Pioneer rumble -80db wow and flutter .025
Sony -78db .015

You’re comparing apples with oranges with those wow and flutter figures – the Sony figure of 0.015% for wow and flutter is measured directly from the platter rim via its speed monitoring head, without playing a record. The actual figure when measured using a test record is 0.025% WRMS, the same as the Pioneer.

Here are the comparable figures for wow and flutter, measured to the same standards using similar methods:

Pioneer 0.012% WRMS (measured at motor), Sony 0.015% WRMS (measured at the head monitoring the platter rim speed) – Pioneer better
Pioneer 0.025% WRMS, Sony 0.025% WRMS (both measured using a test record) – both the same
Pioneer ±0.035% Weighted peak (DIN), Sony ±0.03% (DIN) – Sony better

So with some of the manufacturer wow and flutter figures (WRMS measured directly at motor or platter edge), the Pioneer is better, with others (WRMS measured using a test record) they’re both the same, and using the third standard (DIN), the Sony is better! Who knows which is better? That’s the difficulty in comparing figures from one manufacturer with another. They’re fairly similar, is all we can say!

It’s the same with the signal to noise ratio figures – for all we know, the Sony figure could have been taken in a noisy lab in a large city, close to traffic and train noise, while the Pioneer figure could have been taken at a secret testing lab deep in the quiet country, and early in the morning (some manufacturers did used to measure their turntables at those types of facilities, to minimise external factors influencing the results, while others would measure them at certain quiet times of the day or night, for similar reasons).

So while it’s certainly possible to compare Pioneer figures with other Pioneer turntables, and Sony turntables with other Sony turntables, comparing the two manufacturers’ figures is fraught with danger, unless they’re from the same lab, with the same measuring equipment and methods.

Other specifications which are worth comparing (and less dependent on measuring techniques or environments) are the turntable weights, which influence acoustic feedback (one of the main influences on how turntables sound), since a heavier turntable requires more energy to vibrate the same amount. The Sony is slightly heavier (8.5kg versus 8.1kg), and also has the benefit of their excellent, very non-resonant SBMC (Sony Bulk Moulding Compound) material for the base, which is a mixture of calcium carbonate (limestone), fibreglass and polyester.
 
Both are fine decks, but I'personally go with the Pioneer. The arm on this is no slouch at all and, although the Sony is a Biotracer, it's not in the same league as the earlier models like the PS-B80.

And, anyway, look at the model numbers - basic maths tells you the Pioneer is 107 better than the Sony... :D
 
Being a collector of Pioneer gear, I am admittedly a bit biased toward their products. I currently have 3 functioning Pioneer vintage `tables (a PL-50a, PL-71, and PL-707). While all 3 are superb performers, the convenience and ease of use with the 707 makes it my favorite deck.
upload_2023-2-12_16-59-30.jpeg
 
Looking for a second table and am possibly zeroing in on these two. Both excellent condition, both the same price. Is one notably better than the other? Cartridge is no issue, as I will get a new one, both come with usable " good for now cartridges".

Sony? X series? Biotracer tonearm? Wow, this really is what I would love to own.

The Pioneer also a really nice TT

I would choose based on pictures that show the insides. The turntable with the better plinth / better (more rigid) internal construction would be my choice.
 
Here are the comparable figures for wow and flutter, measured to the same standards using similar methods:

Pioneer 0.012% WRMS (measured at motor), Sony 0.015% WRMS (measured at the head monitoring the platter rim speed) – Pioneer better
Pioneer 0.025% WRMS, Sony 0.025% WRMS (both measured using a test record) – both the same
Pioneer ±0.035% Weighted peak (DIN), Sony ±0.03% (DIN) – Sony better
.

Well done!! The DIN figures are the most relevant (in my opinon), however, my take on this:

1. Those DIN figures are already wonderfully excellent and (IMO) below the threshold of audibility.

2. The REAL figures on a PS-X600 or PL-707 turntable with more than 40 years of age can be all over the place (even more than 0.3% or even wildly fluttering!). This by my direct experience as a turntable tech. To meet the initial specifications you need to recalibrate the direct drive motor, something that a truly good tech .-one that actually reads service manuals- could do.
 
Two excellent tables would be a difficult choice. Owned a Sony PS-X500 and was very satisfied with its performance and SQ. Another member mentioned the plinth as another factor to consider, Sony used a special compound in this series of tables.
 
Back
Top Bottom