BTW we have not bought that car and didn't hear any further offers after their last lowball trade-in bid combined with an offer to finance but no real change in the price of the car, which we did not accept. Mrs. Tox took a break from shopping and didn't rush out and buy it. So we're still on the hunt.
Ford Fusion, I've driven it from the company motor pool, seems OK. Not sure the wife has. Worth a look if not. I love my 95 Ranger but that was a long time ago.
Unfortunately the Toyotas have a hideous front end look these days (IMO) and I would scratch my own eyes out of she bought one. I don't care if it's the most reliable and fun car on the road, it looks awful.
The only thing they're "matching" is the hideous designs trending on their own "upscale" Lexus models. I think they look even worse on the Toyotas, though.Wow..... you guys are rough on the Toyotas....
Agreed the newer front ends are difficult to like... however I think Toyota is trying to match the "trending" front ends now seen on other competitive models.
I don't know about the Toyotas but I DO know that Acura went to those hideous oversized bird beak front ends due to switching to a turbo on all their models so they had to redesign the front end to accommodate the intercooler. Toyota/ Lexus may be the same story.
As far as Honda automatic transmissions, the trouble with their automatics in the 6th gen / early 7th gen models have been widely documented- the story is twofold- the main issue was that the automatics were incorrectly designed so that the 2nd gear clutch pack did not get proper ATF cooling thus burning up the clutch pack. This was the MAIN reason they initially failed, and Honda came up with a redesigned transmission (that allegedly you could get for free if you knew the right thing to say at the dealership) but even those transmissions had issues mainly due to their sealed design (seriously, no ATF drain pan in those transmissions to access metal shavings, filter, solenoids, etc-- just a drain bolt, that's it. Check it out sometime!) Honda finally got their act together on the later 7th gen models from what I've heard.
Now, I used to be a big Honda guy but I always owned the 5 speed manual. My first vehicle I purchased entirely by myself was a 2001 Accord LX 5-speed. I had that car for 10 years and put 210,000 miles on it and it was still running great when I sold it. I never really had any big issues with that car, BUT those Accords are also known to have what I would call "minor" electrical issues such as the dash switch bulbs going out prematurely, power windows and ESPECIALLY the door locks failing, etc. Just cause their engines and at least their manual transmissions last a good while doesn't mean the cars overall are exceptionally "reliable." But the powertrain is what most people think of regarding reliability, so I'll give them that.
Now, compare to the car I just sold a couple weeks ago (that was still running like a top when I sold it): a 1999 Nissan Maxima with their venerable 3.0L V6 and 4 speed automatic w/ overdrive. This is what that car ticked over a few days before I sold it:
It had 320,000 miles on it when I bought it, and yes it had obviously been taken care of but still... 400k with absolutely NO issues with either the engine or the transmission! I don't think I'd even trust a Honda to do that. Unfortunately Nissan/ Renault quality has gone down, and their CVTs are notorious for being one of the most unreliable ever made (JATCO.)
ToxicCrusader, all this is to say, find another dealer. P.S. Are you in Columbia? I'm down here in NW Arkansas.
Sounds like you think NASCAR actually fosters advances in automotive technology, and that there's any difference between any brands in NASCAR? Let me know when that 2-door Camry developed for NASCAR finds a retail outlet. I'm not an interested buyer, just laughing at the assumption that NASCAR vehicle have anything at all to do with what you can buy at the dealerships. Long time from "Race on Sunday, Sell on Monday".Hmmmmm...... very interesting
It is fascinating the way things have panned out for these two non American companies Honda and Toyota... given they both have dominated the professional race car circuits, both in Formula One and NASCAR!
Wow..... you guys are rough on the Toyotas....
As far as Honda automatic transmissions, the trouble with their automatics in the 6th gen / early 7th gen models have been widely documented- the story is twofold- the main issue was that the automatics were incorrectly designed so that the 2nd gear clutch pack did not get proper ATF cooling thus burning up the clutch pack.
Hmmmmm...... very interesting
It is fascinating the way things have panned out for these two non American companies Honda and Toyota...
Sounds like you think NASCAR actually fosters advances in automotive technology, and that there's any difference between any brands in NASCAR? Let me know when that 2-door Camry developed for NASCAR finds a retail outlet. I'm not an interested buyer, just laughing at the assumption that NASCAR vehicle have anything at all to do with what you can buy at the dealerships. Long time from "Race on Sunday, Sell on Monday".
I am afraid I'm going to need a timeline to correlate generations to model years. Otherwise I have no idea what generation of cars is being discussed.
I don't have any problem with advancements coming out of F1, but NASCAR—and I'm not sure you understand how NASCAR works. Did you know everyone uses the same body, same chassis, and same engine, and that they have nothing (NOTHING) to do with either the make or the mode of car that the decals make you think is racing? Google NASCAR Car of Tomorrow if you don't believe me!Just saying.. the suspension and engine may be different but certainly the applications are modified to enhance performance at the consumer level as well
One I can specifically speak of is the Acura Integra.. first model year specifically bred out of the Formula One race circuit by Honda engineering. As proof "google" Honda engineering, Formula One circa 1980s.
I don't have any problem with advancements coming out of F1, but NASCAR—and I'm not sure you understand how NASCAR works. Did you know everyone uses the same body, same chassis, and same engine, and that they have nothing (NOTHING) to do with either the make or the mode of car that the decals make you think is racing? Google NASCAR Car of Tomorrow if you don't believe me!