I heard that too, they yank em right up the hills and get 9-11mpg while doing it.
Heck, my big block suburban does that...
Full Sized Trucks--When Will The "Size War" End?
- Thread starter savatage1973
- Start date
I heard that too, they yank em right up the hills and get 9-11mpg while doing it.
Heck, my big block suburban does that...
Exactly. They don't do anything significantly better than the V8, and they do it with a lot of added complexity and a lot more wear items in the engine. They just haven't been out long enough for the real issues to start showing. You couldn't pay me to buy a 10+ year old ecoboost that spent it's whole life towing heavy.
As for them being the preferred truck for RVers... That's news to me. As long as I can remember anyone I've known that was serious about trailering had a diesel. We drove one from California to the East coast, up to Montana, all over the place. Nothing pulls like a diesel. That same truck has made the drive from Cali to Tennessee twice since I moved here when my parents came to visit. The duramax is a great engine.
Case in point regarding the ecoboost.
https://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-150/...my-test-27-liter-ecoboost-vs-50-liter-v8.html
https://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-150/...my-test-27-liter-ecoboost-vs-50-liter-v8.html
SoCal Sam
Lunatic Member
Ford V6 water pump is driven off the cam chain. If the water pump fails, valves contact the pistons. Changing the water pump is a 10 hour job. The same job takes 30 minutes in my Crown Vic's 4.6. No messing with the cam chain, it's driven off the serpentine belt. If I get one, I will sign up for the extended warranty.
Two turbochargers isn’t adding much complexity. And having 6 cylinders rather than 8 cuts the number of moving parts, not that that matters much anyway. That an engine “hasn’t been around long enough” for issues to show doesn’t mean issues will show. And the engine has been around long enough for many miles to be racked up on individual motors. Note too that the engine develops it’s power at lower rpms than the V-8.
As for diesels, 3500 diesels are the preferred tow vehicle for 5th wheel trailers which are heavier than travel trailers and also put a higher percentage of their weight on the tow vehicle than travel trailers do (travel trailer being the accepted term in the RV community for “bumper pull” trailers as opposed to 5th wheels). But for pulling travel trailers half ton trucks are the most common vehicle and do the job well. I’m a full time RVer and well aware of what’s going on out there.
True: an F-150 with an Ecoboost is a way to do the job well, not the only way.
savatage1973
Addicted Member
Yeah, one of my guys found that out towing one of our Bobcats w/attachments with his new EcoBoost F150. It was mostly stop 'n go driving, so the turbos stayed spooled up all the time to accelerate light to light and it drank far more gas than my diesel drank in fuel (and I had twice as much weight on mine).
It's not just the complexity--turbos put a lot of heat stress on a drivetrain. I owned a couple turbocharged cars (years ago), and if you ran them hard, they drank gas like a much larger engine, and ran hotter than hell. I hope they have improved on their heat management.
The only advantage I would see to the EcoBoost vs a large gas V-8 or diesel is "normal" driving while not towing or hauling. I could see where they would get better fuel mileage doing that, but I use my truck for work, not as a daily driver.
Nope--and they get damned good fuel mileage doing it. My truck's fuel mileage varies very little whether I'm towing/hauliing or just dead-heading it.
Fair enough, you asked that we didn't get you started on the ecoboost. Looks like we ignored your admonitions, lol.
I've changed a few water pumps, and this is wild news to me. What a crazy design that allows a failing water pump to cause the same problem as a honda that breaks the timing chain. Just odd, isn't it?
Point #1 - Those Bobcats are stupid-heavy. I learned that working in the solar power industry. It's like they're chiseled out of a block of granite.
Point #2 - Cannot speak for your area, but around here, I see 1-2 people, TOPS, in most of these so-called "work" trucks.
Tom Brennan is an RV enthusiast, so his perspective would come from that, and those inherent needs.
Savatage1973 is a guy who needs a torquey, dependable WORK truck, for whom these beasts are designed.
Asshats in my neck of the country use them as status symbols, tho God only knows why. I drove an '82 Honda Prelude with body cancer until a friend got hard up for decent transportation. Hell, I'd still be driving it. LOVED that little rustbucket.
I've told this story before, but it applies to this thread. Sitting at a stoplight in my '95 Miata one nice summer day, I had the top down, and was groovin' on the radio (as Charlie Daniels sang). Guy pulls up in a truck so large I could nearly drive underneath it, and not have any issues.
He had a girl riding shotgun, pretty young thing. In back was his buddy, and HIS gf, another lil' country cutie.
Guy looks at my Miata, and asks, "Whaddaya doin' with such a SMALL car??" he yukked at me.
"I'm compensating for an extremely large penis." - I replied. His girlfriend positively cawed with peals of laughter, and his buddy seized up in fits.
I drove off slowly, with a wry grin on my face.
savatage1973
Addicted Member
Just for S&G's, I went onto Chevy's website and priced out a 2019 3500HD, basically the same as my 2016. Total price would be just a tick under $72K without added destination fees, and w/o the following items:
Floor liners/mats
Ladder rack
Toolbox
Spray-in bedliner
The first three, I could just transfer from my old truck, or buy new ones and trade it as-is. Obviously, the bedliner would have to be done upon purchase (if the dealer hadn't already done it).
So all in total, probably a $75K truck. Granted--that is MSRP, but even discounted, it would still probably total $65K easily. The 2020's are supposed to be out in a few (less than 6 months), so I'll probably wait for them to become available--I'm in no real hurry, but I'm sure the price will go up by a couple grand.
Floor liners/mats
Ladder rack
Toolbox
Spray-in bedliner
The first three, I could just transfer from my old truck, or buy new ones and trade it as-is. Obviously, the bedliner would have to be done upon purchase (if the dealer hadn't already done it).
So all in total, probably a $75K truck. Granted--that is MSRP, but even discounted, it would still probably total $65K easily. The 2020's are supposed to be out in a few (less than 6 months), so I'll probably wait for them to become available--I'm in no real hurry, but I'm sure the price will go up by a couple grand.
Grenadeslio
Lunatic Member
My lifted Z71 was the same about parking, u-turns? forgetaboutit lol, needed 6 lanes.
Ford's are much more maneuverable, time to leave the dark side and come into the light.
savatage1973
Addicted Member
Ya got me on that one--yeah, they are heavy little suckers. All types of lifts are the same way--all that ballast weight to keep them stable when you start putting stuff up in the air. And any sort of hydraulic system is not "lightweight" either.
We had a Ford 550 dually to pull the big excavator. Even with all that torque, she struggled to haul that thing. I was always opting to ride with my boss's business partner to the job site, because Boss drove the F 550, and I was the slightest bit afraid. All that tonnage, and cellphone obsessed drivers = disaster waiting for an opportunity.
The other problem with towing that much weight with a "regular" truck is that they may have the power to accelerate the load but they usually don't have equally good capabilities in the stopping department. We get a lot of accidents in this area along I-40/81 caused by guys driving 3500 trucks with gooseneck flatbeds hauling way too much weight and not paying enough attention.
@Tom Brennan I'll concede that I've been out of the loop regarding RV trends for a few years. We always had bumper pull trailers, but they were big ones. The one we took cross country was a 30ft Sunnybrook. They have a new one now as they didn't need the bunk beds. I forget what brand it is but it's the one with the "V" shaped front that's supposed to give you better mileage. My mom hasn't met a 5th wheel floor plan she's liked.
I do disagree that turbos aren't adding significant complexity. The turbos themselves are quite the engineering accomplishment, and then there's the ancillary equipment to keep them working properly (oil lines and for some, the additional plumbing for water cooling), the more complex intake and exhaust manifolds to hook them up, etc. Adding two cylinders is a piece of cake by comparison.
On top of all that, turbos inherently stress the motor more than a naturally aspirated solution. You have more heat, more pressure, more everything. Turbos are also more prone to wearing out themselves than an extra set of pistons.
All that said, the diesels I like for pulling have all the same caveats re:turbos. But in my mind they deliver a significant advantage for the desired use case that I just don't see from their gasoline counterparts. It feels like a solution without a problem driven by dumb EPA fleet standards. The EPA test cycle strongly favors turbocharged engines.
In the end though, what matters is that you like your truck and are happy with it's performance. If you are then it's all gravy. A buddy of mine bought the first model year F150 with the 3.5 ecoboost to haul his racecar to the track and he said it was a hoot to drive when he wasn't towing. Definitely a nice truck.
Me, I want a Taurus SHO to play with.
Cheers,
Nathan
@Tom Brennan I'll concede that I've been out of the loop regarding RV trends for a few years. We always had bumper pull trailers, but they were big ones. The one we took cross country was a 30ft Sunnybrook. They have a new one now as they didn't need the bunk beds. I forget what brand it is but it's the one with the "V" shaped front that's supposed to give you better mileage. My mom hasn't met a 5th wheel floor plan she's liked.
I do disagree that turbos aren't adding significant complexity. The turbos themselves are quite the engineering accomplishment, and then there's the ancillary equipment to keep them working properly (oil lines and for some, the additional plumbing for water cooling), the more complex intake and exhaust manifolds to hook them up, etc. Adding two cylinders is a piece of cake by comparison.
On top of all that, turbos inherently stress the motor more than a naturally aspirated solution. You have more heat, more pressure, more everything. Turbos are also more prone to wearing out themselves than an extra set of pistons.
All that said, the diesels I like for pulling have all the same caveats re:turbos. But in my mind they deliver a significant advantage for the desired use case that I just don't see from their gasoline counterparts. It feels like a solution without a problem driven by dumb EPA fleet standards. The EPA test cycle strongly favors turbocharged engines.
In the end though, what matters is that you like your truck and are happy with it's performance. If you are then it's all gravy. A buddy of mine bought the first model year F150 with the 3.5 ecoboost to haul his racecar to the track and he said it was a hoot to drive when he wasn't towing. Definitely a nice truck.
Me, I want a Taurus SHO to play with.
Cheers,
Nathan
and for 99% of the people, that would be the use. so at that point the convo becomes: boy I like the size and handling of our SUV, but damn, our luggage just does not get wet enuf...we need a truck!
Since I gave the truck to my son, we keep the sub around for the occasional boat dunking. between car shows, drywall hauling and boating weekends, we dont see 1500 miles a year on it. Ill be darned if I am going to pay $50K+ and let it sit...
I daily drove my dad's Silverado in high school after we made a deal to let him drive my Camry to work. He drove ~25 miles to work and I drove ~4 to school. I distinctly remember having to do a 10+ point turn to get it out of my orthodontist's parking lot. 
Modern diesels also add a pile of complexity with their emissions controls that leads them to break in interesting and expensive ways. I guess the moral of the story is that its all terrible and we should be driving 1980 F100's with an inline six.
For my own needs, the big engine doesn't make a load of sense. I move a 17' boat that doesn't weigh a whole bunch all of a mile to the boat ramp, and sometimes I need to put a bulky thing in the bed. I really don't need or want the fuel burn of the high power V8 to show people how manly I am while I drive less than 3k per year.
For my own needs, the big engine doesn't make a load of sense. I move a 17' boat that doesn't weigh a whole bunch all of a mile to the boat ramp, and sometimes I need to put a bulky thing in the bed. I really don't need or want the fuel burn of the high power V8 to show people how manly I am while I drive less than 3k per year.
I 2006 I bought a new 150 XL that was a stripper—6 cylinder, stick shift, rubber floors, crank windows. The only options were air and a radio with CD player. I added stainless step bars and a matching painted trunk lid. I bought it because I needed another vehicle and all I needed was cheap, reliable and comfortable transportation. But it was just the ticket for hauling Altec 19s I bought in Frederick Maryland to Lexington Ky, where I lived at the time.
The one "breakdown" my dad's truck has had was when one of the pumps related to the California spec emissions system seized and took the accessory belt with it. No fun driving a big truck with no power steering!
They were in Nevada or AZ at the time and the shop there simply put in the idler that goes in that spot in the rest of the country and blocked off the lines. They eventually got it fixed "correctly" because they had to smog it.
nasadowsk
Bow:good, hunt:needs work
Out here, the 'brodozer' is the preferred vehicle once you get past the inner suburbs. Bonus points for the stacks (now out of favor - a HUGE exhaust tip aimed in a weird direction is the thing now), Metal Mulisha / Fox /KTM stickers (Southern NJ), deer/bow hunting stickers (Northwestern NJ), and of course, a winch and lift kit (Fox shocks!). Gotta be a diesel - no self respecting bro wants a gas pickup truck. Don't forget the Bully Dog programmer (turned all the way up), and the mod so everyone in the county can hear the turbo whistle.
Closer in, the 4 door Jeep™ is the preferred bro-vehicle. Has to be lifted, a bro bar, winch, and Punisher skull stickers. Might be either a "Zombie outbreak response vehicle" or "Hey look at me! I'm ex military! (Actually, I'm not, but I want everyone to think I am)". What I don't get is why they always have a gas can and a heavy duty bumper jack. There's a gas station on every street corner, and bumper jacks suck.
In the urban areas, the weapon of choice is a cheap used BMW 3 series. Everyone's got one. The poor folks have a riced-out Civic...
