Pioneer RG Dynamic Processor
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dspear99ca
Super Member
Ditto. i've got a dbx 1BX-DS, which I only use to expand compressed radio station signals, which makes for a HUGE difference in listen-ability. Otherwise I don't need it, I'd rather hear well-recorded music than try to artificially replace lost content in crappy recordings using interpolating algorithms.
There was a time, though, when I was attracted to those amplifiers with the knobs that "go to 11" and other gadgety audio devices that go well with cheap beer...
Just my 2 cents.
dspear99ca
Super Member
Most FM stations are uber-compressed, often only using a fraction of the dynamic range available in order to sound "the loudest" on the dial... read up on the "loudness war", it's too bad stations do this because quality definitely suffers. In order to make the sound more natural, you'd need to EXPAND the dynamic range of the content... "flattening" or compressing makes it sound even shittier.
Coytee
Super Member
I had an RG unit (forget if 1 or 2) I ended up selling it and bought a 3bx. This is all back in 1980.
Today, I still have that same 3bx as well as their 5bx. The 5bx seems to operate totally differently in that, instead of being an expander it's more of a compressor... meaning... (bear with me in that I have a very basic understanding of this)
Anyways... rather than expanding the sound like the 3bx, it leaves the peaks where they are and compresses the other parts, relative to the peaks.
When I've had my 3bx in the system and turn it on it can be very much like a loudness button going on and can create some huge dynamic swings. The 5bx has none of that effect and on a side by side, doesn't seem to jack the signal way up like a 3bx does.
Hard to find 5bx's but they're interesting
Today, I still have that same 3bx as well as their 5bx. The 5bx seems to operate totally differently in that, instead of being an expander it's more of a compressor... meaning... (bear with me in that I have a very basic understanding of this)
Anyways... rather than expanding the sound like the 3bx, it leaves the peaks where they are and compresses the other parts, relative to the peaks.
When I've had my 3bx in the system and turn it on it can be very much like a loudness button going on and can create some huge dynamic swings. The 5bx has none of that effect and on a side by side, doesn't seem to jack the signal way up like a 3bx does.
Hard to find 5bx's but they're interesting
When I was using the 3BX i would set it so that no more than 3 led's would light up on the expansion or upper half of the display. Any more than that seemed like to much for my taste. I spent a lot of time listening and determined that was the best setting for me.
dspear99ca
Super Member
The amount of expansion will necessarily depend on the source material. A well-mastered classical CD will require none, whereas a compressed pop CD will require a great deal. I was listening to the soundtrack to "Beyond the Sea", the Bobby Darin story, the other day and put the expander into the loop. The vocals and drums had SO MUCH impact it actually startled me... it was too much and it made the music sound unnatural.
25 years ago the sound level of the typical CD averaged -18dbfs but this level has been rising steadily. Good-quality releases are still in the -15 to -20dbfs range (-20dbfs is the THX standard for movie soundtrack recording... they WANT the impact headroom inherent in a large dynamic range in the theatres). This means the tracks could potentially use up to 40dB of the 96dB of dynamic range available from the CD medium. Today's CD's are mastered so that the average is around -9 dbfs, with some releases as low as -6 to -5 (pop, hip-hop, contemporary R&B, rap). On these pressings, you are only accessing a measly 10dB of dynamic range, the other 86db available is "wasted". These are the CD's that need expansion.
So, you can't really have an "I'm going to expand by three bars" rule of thumb... it's like saying "I'm going to set the temperature on my thermostat to raise the temp 15 degrees above outside ambient"... in the winter you'd freeze and in the summer you'd swelter although there would be the odd day it'd work perfectly.
Coytee
Super Member
Damn good analogy! :thmbsp:
I have a Pioneer P-D70 cd player that demonstrates this. On older CD's there is actually some movement on the peak level meters. On most new CD's the peak level meters stay maxed out.
Rybeam
Super Member
I have had one since they were new. Helpful with poor sources, poorly recorded LPs and tapes. When used between the source and a recording it really adds a punch to the recording. I do not use it on good to excellent sources, also seems more effective on lower watt systems. IMO
I should have been more specific. At that time I listened mostly to rock music which is typically very compressed. I found that the "3 bar rule" worked best for that style music. Any more created the "pumping" effect. When listening to other genres such as Jazz or Classical there was no set rule as the dynamics varied greatly due to the increased dynamics of the recording.
Hope that clarifies what I meant to say.
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pashka
Member
I do not want to write badly about the pioneer RG , but original model RG Dynamics Pro 20 processor sounds decent, there is no coloring of the sound,very good and there are no artifacts. Everything else that was done in this direction, copying the RG is a bad clones by Pioneer.
DBX is another kitchen.
DBX is another kitchen.
