Ishmael
Last Activity:
Feb 17, 2017
Joined:
Jun 15, 2013
Messages:
1,039
Likes Received:
47
Trophy Points:
48

Share This Page

Ishmael

Super Member

Ishmael was last seen:
Feb 17, 2017
    1. Ishmael
      Ishmael
      Thanks for the follow up Gang. The GE did have just two terminals, but they did not say what the tolerance was. Your post helps a lot as I will look for just two terminal oil caps and try for the lowest tolerance, I have time as the W70s do sound great a they now are, but it would be nice to see what this step would do to the sound. Thanks again, I have put all this good info. into my W70 file so I can use it when I am ready to start the "Hunt for Red KBGs [GEs]" as the case may be. I am awaiting a Sony STR-6045 which I will restore and then see if, as I hope, it will match up with our baby Wharfedale "Lintons". If this match works I will look into a mini DAC for our computer and have a killer office system to listen to files/internet radio on.
    2. Gang-Twanger
      Gang-Twanger
      Not sure if I ever answered your question, but both of thosr caps seem like the type you want. Motor run is okay too. The key is finding old PCB-era oil caps with TWO terminals, not three. And you want either one of the old US brands or the Russian ones that say KBG in the listing (Also be aware of the tolerance rating, if it's listed. The lower the better. 10%, 5%, and I think there were even some 2% ones. The Russian ones will usually have it listed one way or the other.
    3. Gang-Twanger
      Gang-Twanger
      Also, just so you know, the Russian one take a good 3-6 weeks to get to you. Don't worry about that though. Despite slow shipping, those guys are reliable. That's how Crestwood23 got his.
    4. Gang-Twanger
      Gang-Twanger
      Almost forgot... When you see VAC as opposed to VDC, that's just the way some caps were labeled. 330VAC is equivalent to 750VDC. I believe the ratio is 1 to 2.272 or something like that. 440VAC is like saying 1000VDC. So keep that in mind because you'd rather have a 330VAC cap than a 500VDC one. And when looking at those new/old-stock Russian caps, the KBG ones are best, but keep in mind that some are 5% tolerances, some 10%, etc., so be sure about that. You want the highest voltage, lowest-percent tolerance, and KBG (If they're Russian NOS, make sure the listing says KBG, as in made exclusive for the KGB back in like 1959).
    5. Gang-Twanger
      Gang-Twanger
      Sorry about the confusion. They are W70C's. You'll be REAL happy with those... Mid is the red alnico 5", and the ceramic Super 3 gets super-high marks just like the alnico one from earlier. The only W70 with a ceramic Super 3 cone is the W70C. I meant the W70D had one of two types of mid-woofers, not the W70C. Yours is a W70C. W90's used 8uF and 24uF caps. Look at the caps album on my home page. Sprague & Sangamo, both US, from the early to mid '60's and mid '50's respectively. G.E. made 'em, Industrial Condenser (Chicago, IL), etc. Just go on Ebay and search for "vintage 12uF oil caps" and look at each listing, and you'll start getting the idea. If the cap's exact test value is listed, then even better, but as long as you're + or - 10%, you're fine. Vintage speakers were able to put up with some pretty-loose tolerances. Many times, the original caps were only rated + or - 20%, so don't stress over that part. If the guy has good feedback and sells a lotta. caps, that's the best bet.
    6. Ishmael
      Ishmael
      Gang interesting mix, as it has a cone tweeter 70C, but a cast mid-woofer frame 70D, but has only one cap in the cross over 70C, and then there's the routed ports around the tweeter that are underneath the tweeter's enclosure, which I haven't found a matching picture for.
    7. Ishmael
      Ishmael
      Gang, they are all cast frames, tweeter, mid and woofer. If you go to my post "Help Mystery Wharfedal" at pg. 1 post #12 you can see the nice casting on the woofer "Made in ...(England), at pg. 2 post #28 you can see the tweeter and at pg. 3 post #36 you see all three speakers after cleaned and oiled w/ WD 40 (lightly). Tweeter is a cone, no purple fried egg.
    8. Gang-Twanger
      Gang-Twanger
      When looking for oil caps, you want old '50's or '60's PCB-era caps (If they're either newish-looking or say NON-PCB or NO PCB's, those are not old enough... PCB-filled caps sound best for some reason. Look for US-made or the Russian NOS ones (For Russian, the ones listed "KBG" are the nicest). Also, look for the ones with TWO terminals, NOT three, and voltage value should be at least as much as the original cap, and it's okay to go with higher voltage, which basically indicates a better-made cap.
    9. Gang-Twanger
      Gang-Twanger
      The crossovers on those are very-simple. If it's just one cap, then they're probably W70C's, which I think had an alnico mid-woofer (running full-range, probably). Just look at where the original cap is soldered in, and then just connect those wires to the connections on the new cap. As far as I know, you don't have to worry about positive or negative with speaker capacitors (I think that's what they mean by bipolar). A 12uF oil cap will be bigger, but shouldn't be a problem to fasten to the inside wall somewhere, and just connect the same wires that were connected to the other cap. If I can do it, anybody can.
    10. Gang-Twanger
      Gang-Twanger
      OK, yours are either W70C's or W70D's. It all depends on the tweeter. If it's a cone-style tweeter, then W70C. If it's a purple-ish fried egg kind of thing, then W70D. That's it, really. If the mid-woofer has a cast frame, then it's an early W70D. If it's got a stamped mid, then it's the later version of the W70D. Both models are very-nice speakers for sure. More on this in the next message. Gonna' run out of space.
    11. Gang-Twanger
      Gang-Twanger
      They're on your profile page instead. Just copy each one and paste on mine..
    12. Ishmael
      Ishmael
      Final note, my posts follows my journey in recovering and restoring these speakers. Well worth the effort. To me there is something very special about highly effecient speakers, they make the music alive. Our current main modern system is built around a pair of Tannoy Turnberry speakers for just this reason, with the Wharfedale W70s next to them in our vintage system, makes for nice choices.
    13. Ishmael
      Ishmael
      I got the advice you offer too on oil caps, but I chickened out as the original caps were "12uF/50V Type BR” and I could not find a similar cap on the Bay and I do not have any electronics knowledge and did not want to do harm to the cross over/speakers by subsituting something that could damage something I cannot replace. I do have them up on stands, again see posts pictures, and they really sound nice driven by my little Sherwood S-7100A receiver. Some nights it's like Jimi Hendrix is standing in the room playing "Red House" live. If I were to switch out to oil caps given the capcitator value above, what should I be looking for that has worked for your W70 and brands to consider?
    14. Ishmael
      Ishmael
      I hope these pictures will help you determine the types of speakers, as they do have distinctive shapes and colors. The tweeter seemed unique in that I have seen no other pictures of W70 tweeters where there are routed ports for the tweeter inside the fiber cover. Damn, so the "B" isn't the hoped for answer to the model, wonder why they marked them? The case appears to be walnut and is a lot like the Wharfedale Lintons you helped me with, which were a couple years earlier (I believe they were marked 63 and their tweeter had a wooded enclosure over the tweeter). However like the Linton this W70's case has molding over the speaker grill cloth that is painted and not veneer, same as with the Lintons, has a beautiful brass speaker badge and what looks like a brown baukilyte (sp?) anneuator knob, again please do look up my post as there are pictures of all I have just described.
    15. Ishmael
      Ishmael
      Gang, here's what I can tell you about these W70s. The cone of the Mid-range woofer is marked "9/66" and the cone of Bass woofer is marked either "3" or "5"/"66". So these speakers date back to 1966. If you look up my posts in search under Ishmael you will find my post "Help Mystery Warfedale" where on page 1 you will find pictures of the speakers, exterior, cross over, and on page 2 of the post you will find pictures of the tweeter after the fiber cover was removed.
    16. Gang-Twanger
      Gang-Twanger
      Are the woofers in yours running full-range? Or are they just putting out bass frequencies? I ask because the earliest W** models had the woofer running full-range (like in my W90's and W60's). It's funny, you mention the "B" stamped on the rear panel. Weird thing is, my W90's have a "B" as well, and yet they are clearly the first version with the 'dual-3-way' design rather than the 4-way version where the woofers are crossed over and the bass frequencies divided between them (Inside, my W90's have a date of 9/'63).

      Also, do all the drivers in yours have alnico magnets? Just curious. Mine do, and those Briggs-era drivers are about as sweet as they come (The thing is, the ceramic drivers they put in them a few years later are ALSO very-sweet... The W12FRS model that they sold in the UK had ceramic drivers, and it sounds REAL good, so don't let it deter you either way). The alnico W12 woofers are more-like 12" full-range drivers than actual woofers. Beautiful midrange qualities.
    17. Gang-Twanger
      Gang-Twanger
      If you haven't recapped yet, you should look into getting some good oil caps for them. If oil caps aren't in your budget, then I'd at least go with some modern motor run caps instead. They're like $10 each, and still a much more-old-school type cap than, say, a modern Dayton polypropylene. Avoid modern poly-type caps. They give Briggs-era Wharfies a glare to the sound that just shouldn't be there. After I replaced the 3 year old Dayton poly caps in my W90's with NOS, US-made oil caps from the PCB era, that was it. They're perfect now. It was like getting new speakers. Can't even begin to express how much the sound improved.

      The W70's mid-woofer and cone-tweeter sound amazing (ESPECIALLY with oil caps). Get 'em high enough off the floor so the tweeters are at eye-level, and use the "golden ratio" for speaker-placement (Be precise with distancing... That last 1/2" of tolerance is where the magic lives). Also, mine sound best when placed ON-AXIS (in relation to your listening spot).
    18. Gang-Twanger
      Gang-Twanger
      Hey there, Ishmael...

      Had to split this into several replies. Glad to hear you got some W70's. Knowing what I know about the 2-way W60 and the original W90, I have a pretty-good idea of how the original W70 must sound (Are yours walnut veneer or mahogany?). I've recommended the W70 a lot because I've seen them selling for $150 on average, which is an excellent price considering the sound quality.

      Throw a high-quality tube receiver/amp behind them, something like a Fisher, Scott, or Leak, and you'll have yourself one serious high-end vintage setup. Those early W** models go VERY-well with Fisher tube gear. The level of synergy between those brands (in the tube era) is shockingly-good. I never get tired of my W90's. They're like a tractor beam of musicality.
  • Loading...
  • Loading...