I am thinking about entering the Mcintosh world by purchasing a Mac4100. I currently have a Pioneer Sx-1010, PL-71, and a pair of JBL 112 speakers. The 4100 is about the only Mcintosh that my budget will alllow. My question is, am I really going to notice that much of a difference with the 4100? My system will only be used for vinyl and cd listening. Musical taste is mostly classic rock to 80's metal. Thanks.
Question about Mcintosh Performance
- Thread starter vice1984
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Lesterbest
Super Member
I'd stay with the Pioneer. Has @ least 2X the pwr of the Mac.
MACKIE1975
Super Member
Buying an old unit is different from buying a "restored" old unit.
The MAC4100 is very old and definitely requires a restoration. Most unit on auction site or local Craig needs a lot of love
The MAC4100 is very old and definitely requires a restoration. Most unit on auction site or local Craig needs a lot of love
I had a 1010 (past tense) and presently have a 4100 which will never leave my grasp. Nothing against the 1010 as it's an excellent sounding receiver and it was my favorite of the Pioneer receivers that I'd owned. The 4100 is just the better overall unit imo; better tuner, better phono stage and the built in eq with the adjustable loudness is very useful.
Disregard that comment about 1010 having "twice the power". There is in fact only 25 wpc separating them which is insignificant
Disregard that comment about 1010 having "twice the power". There is in fact only 25 wpc separating them which is insignificant
MACKIE1975
Super Member
It's a MA6200 + MR75 per Terry.
What's more can you ask?
What's more can you ask?
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chef free
Super Member
I think that you will notice a considerable improvement in sound quality with the MAC 4100 over the Pioneer SX-1010. The Pioneer has 110 watts to the Mac's 75 (into 8 Ohms, it's 100 watts into 4 Ohms) but that's not even twice the power which is the minimum jump needed to be audible. The Mac can run THREE pairs of 4 Ohm speakers, do not try that with any Pioneer. Plus the Mac has another aux input, a five band equalizer, and variable loudness.
chef free
Super Member
I think it's the MR74 tuner inside.
Gentlemen... the tuner section of a MAC4100 is based on the MR75. 
Will there be any noticeable sonic improvement with the MAC? Very difficult to answer in the absolute but it is a fact the 4100 is a formidable unit, beautifully designed & executed, laden with genuinely purposeful features, held in high regard, and McIntosh's single best selling component of all time. The MAC4100 also can drive loads down to only 2 ohm which is something only a handful of receivers ever made are capable of. At 75 wpc (actually closer to 90 wpc), the 4100 can power all but the most demanding speakers.
Absolutely concur with your decision to purchase from a trusted McIntosh reseller. The few extra $$$ it will be well worth the premium entailed and have peace of mind that the unit has been serviced to spec and will be warranted in the event something had been overlooked.
A beautiful piece of Mc that will provide a lifetime of aesthetic and sonic enjoyment.
Good luck in your search.
Will there be any noticeable sonic improvement with the MAC? Very difficult to answer in the absolute but it is a fact the 4100 is a formidable unit, beautifully designed & executed, laden with genuinely purposeful features, held in high regard, and McIntosh's single best selling component of all time. The MAC4100 also can drive loads down to only 2 ohm which is something only a handful of receivers ever made are capable of. At 75 wpc (actually closer to 90 wpc), the 4100 can power all but the most demanding speakers.
Absolutely concur with your decision to purchase from a trusted McIntosh reseller. The few extra $$$ it will be well worth the premium entailed and have peace of mind that the unit has been serviced to spec and will be warranted in the event something had been overlooked.
A beautiful piece of Mc that will provide a lifetime of aesthetic and sonic enjoyment.
Good luck in your search.
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Having restored a SX1010 within the last 3 moths and any number of MAC4100s it can be said that both units will need some restoration work sooner rather than later.
McIntosh as well as many other high end manufacturers used German axial and ROE radial caps back in the 70s.
These need to be replaced now, they are failing regularly. I have no idea if the usual resellers replace these before resale, but if they don't, you will within the next few years. It should be SOP to replace these anytime a hot soldering iron is near these late 70s units.......period.
McIntosh as well as many other high end manufacturers used German axial and ROE radial caps back in the 70s.
These need to be replaced now, they are failing regularly. I have no idea if the usual resellers replace these before resale, but if they don't, you will within the next few years. It should be SOP to replace these anytime a hot soldering iron is near these late 70s units.......period.
Djcoolray
Addicted Member
Most dealers don't replace everything that might burn out in the future ! They just want to get it out the door as a "Sold As Is" item ! Oh, they'll make sure it won't burn out for at least ninety days so what's happening is that you will be paying an absorbent price due to the fact it was just serviced and not rebuilt. With a dealer you pay for a nice unit and spend a fortune having same said dealer rebuild it for you. Watch how the dealer discreetly reminds you your buying an older unit....
Your better off buying a receiver from a private owner that you personally checked to see if everything is working and having someone known on this site to rebuild it. Then again, as a member, you could go on the Audiokarma's on site retail site called Bartertown and buy something that has been throughly rebuilt as a labor of love and at the best prices.
Your better off buying a receiver from a private owner that you personally checked to see if everything is working and having someone known on this site to rebuild it. Then again, as a member, you could go on the Audiokarma's on site retail site called Bartertown and buy something that has been throughly rebuilt as a labor of love and at the best prices.
Audio Classics warrants used equipment for at least 6 months; probably similar for Tom Manley.
To suggest that equipment is repaired in such a way so as not to fail for x days is not only unfair, it's just plain untrue. Unless someone has a crystal ball, nobody can possibly know if & when something will go wrong - which is always a possibility despite the best preventative efforts.
The point is that the buyer's chances are far better when purchasing from trusted & reputable seller than the unknown private seller who in most cases has no way of knowing whether a unit is performing to spec. Also, the dealer's experience can go a long way in knowing where attention is most often needed with a given model.
Cheaper does not necessarily equate to a better deal. Oftentimes, it's exactly the opposite, in my experience - for whatever it may be worth.
MACKIE1975
Super Member
Avoid the lowest price, it will be a lemon.
Stay away from the highest price because the seller has a boat payment
Stay away from the highest price because the seller has a boat payment
The two mentioned resellers should be familiar with known issues that have been showing up for, say, the last 5 years. Do they replace these known parts?
If they replace these known parts.....hurray, they and the local dealers that resell trade ins should promote it. If they don't promote it I think you have to assume they do not fix these known issues.
If they replace these known parts.....hurray, they and the local dealers that resell trade ins should promote it. If they don't promote it I think you have to assume they do not fix these known issues.
Djcoolray
Addicted Member
You don't get it, I'm sorry...
You believe that said dealer would be honorable enough to replace everything that might breakdown over a said amount of years. Just because he is a said dealer of a certain name brand of equipment doesn't make him a loyal follower of such said equipment. To think so would be naive. The point of rebuilding something is buying it in good condition as in everything working and as cheaply as possible so it can be rebuilt by someone qualified to do the repair. The point is to reduce the amount of total money invested by looking at the combined purchase price and the cost to rebuild it. It would be nice if dealerships actually rebuilt equipment prior to selling it but that premise is not realistic.
Djcoolray
Addicted Member
Actually...
Many of us have seen newbies get clipped like this before. People wanting a cool receiver paying a good price only to later repair it and sell it just to recover part of their money.....it happens all the time ! Just like buying a used car at a dealership you have to realize why the person's in business. Then, it doesn't take a crystal ball to see what's going to happen because so many people are doing the samething repeatedly and I'm just trying to save you all some pain !
MACKIE1975
Super Member
The actual cost (labor + part) for a fully restore unit will run up to $700-$800.
I never said that any dealer is going to replace everything. Even if it were possible, it would be cost-prohibitive, and still, there is no guarantee the unit will not develop a problem for x years.
The retailers I was referring to were McIntosh specialists such as Tom Manley, Audio Classics and others - the likes of which are dedicated McIntosh specialists, whose reputations have been cultivated over many decades. I have conducted a good amount of business with Audio Classics over the years and the amount of problems I've experienced with any of my purchases have been minimal, and have consistently gone out of their way to rectify the few issues when they did - even well after the warranty period.
Neither were prices out of line with the prices for the same models on the auction site.
Believe me, I've been down the road of "buy cheap now, send out and fix" - in the final wash, it's just not worth the hassle, IMO. Factor in all the extra shipping, down time etc, it's an even bigger hassle. YMMV.
Warranties are just for "piece of mind" of the buyer. The buyer feels good because he won't have to pay for repairs in the first year. Everyone expects something to break eventually and older things will wear out faster than new things. The hassle of dealing with a defective, 80 pound boat anchor is the biggest turnoff.
