What is going on with my CT-F9191?

GoingVintage

New Member
Everyone on this forum have been very helpful so far, so I guess it is time to ask more questions. :D

Sorry, this is going to be a fairly long post. I want to describe everything that is going on. :blah:

I bought another "in need of repair" vintage audio unit. This time it is a Pioneer CT-F9191 to go with my SX-950 receiver.

Upon testing the cassette deck, I found someone has been inside this unit and replaced the Dolby lamp (held together with electrical tape, bulb is dead), and the right meter lamp with a green lamp.

The tape counter didn't work when I got it and found that the belt had been pulled off of the pulleys. Once I put the belt back on, the unit wouldn't do anything. For the remainder of testing, I removed the belt.

The FF and REW functions do not work. Initially, I thought that the belts were the issue but later found MTF's thread and realized that the belts have nothing to do with FF and REW functions. I have not taken apart the transport yet but suspect a bad clutch. Is MarkTheFixer still repairing these? :idea:

During playback, I get all kinds of problems and they are NOT consistent. Usually when I put a tape in, both meters will rise with an increase with the output knob but will not "dance to the music". The needles stay at whatever they are when I stop moving the output knob. When this happens, I get no sound.

Sometimes when I push the other function buttons, the needles will kind of vibrate with some sound to go with it (but still no sound from tape). It is inconsistent and I cannot figure out if a particular switch is the cause. All of the switches seem to change the problem from time to time.

On a rare occasion, I can get sound from the tape on the left channel and the left meter works as it should. The right meter will just stay about the 0dB mark and I get white noise from that channel.
I have not tested the Record function yet.

I have cleaned the heads, capstan, and pinch rollers.
I have NOT cleaned the switches yet.


At this time, I plan to clean the switches, check the FF/REW clutch and order new belts and then see what problems still exist. Does this sound like good first steps?

Any thoughts to these problems? Can the switches really be dirty enough to cause these problems? I cannot find any particular switch and the switches won't always cause a change even if I wiggle them.

I also found two wires near the top of the transport that don't go anywhere. Are these wires supposed to connect to something? I would think so or otherwise they wouldn't be there, right? :dunno:

Here are the wires in question: :eek:
IMG_3593.JPG



The colored boxes show where the wires lead to. I would have taken a wider shot but I couldn't see the wires very well.IMG_35941.jpg




This is where the meters stay once I press play most of the time (they don't move). Original Pioneer meter bulb on the left, someones green bulb fix on the right. I have not seen the peak lamp light up even when the meters are in the "red zone" (however, sound output is low when there is sound).
IMG_3596.JPG



Thanks for trying to make sense of these problems! :thumbsup:
 
i think this is how its supposed to look
whats missing in yours?
maybe the cables should go to a lamp in the transport? and previous owner snatched it for the VU fix?

CTF9191.jpg
 
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At this time, I plan to clean the switches, check the FF/REW clutch and order new belts and then see what problems still exist. Does this sound like good first steps?

The switch you need to clean is in the lower chassis, it is a honking big one (or two really) , it is actuated by the huge solenoid in the upper chassis.
It is hard to get the deoxit into the actual body to the contacts, and I haven't been able to find the thread that I posted on doing that switch, along with pictures.

That switch changes the circuitry from REC to PB, and when the contacts get really cruddy, the deck does horribly strange things. But once effectively cleaned, it works great.

Yes I still do the clutches (PM me for that).

Your red and blue wires are probably the power to the FF/REW motor - which I do not see in your picture. I wonder if someone thought the motor was bad or weak and diddled with it - and broke it.

edit: - found the pictures of the lower chassis switches, follow the link to it:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/pioneer-crazy.39250/page-2#post-359621
 
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Thanks MTF!

Yes the deck is doing some strange things. The link will come in handy. :D
I will take apart the underside tomorrow and clean the massive switch assembly along with the other pots/switches and post my results.

Fredrik 1977- Thanks for the picture. It is hard to tell where the wires go. The cassette well lamp works fine, unlike the rest of the deck.

I guess what I really need to know is: Are there any wires that come off of the black plastic terminal thing that don't go anywhere?

My multimeter tells me that each pair of posts are connected together (post 1 and 2 have continuity, post 3 and 4 have continuity, etc.)
Is the black plastic thing just a terminal strip or does it serve any other function?

I am going to try to trace back the other wire from the other post that has continuity with the mystery wire and see where that takes me. o_O
 
as markthefixer pointed out, the reel/spool motor is missing in your picture, u can see the hole its been sitting in. without it the deck wont FF or REW.
 
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Thanks! I I didn't see the wires mentioned the first time I looked at MTF's post.

That motor is indeed missing. :( That will probably explain why the FF and REW don't even attempt to work.

Someone messed with this deck more than I thought....
 
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do you have a servicemanual? maybe the partnumber for the motor can be found in there. probably the same motor for a couple of different decks. so finding one on ebay might be possible.
 
Can the switches really be dirty enough to cause these problems?

The answer to my question is yes!
I cleaned the pair of monster switches and I get sound! I get both left and right channels and there equal in volume. Thanks MTF! :jump:

No more strange noises or meter movements.

I downloaded the service manual from HiFi Engine. I haven't looked yet but I believe you are right. According to Oaktree Vintage the motor is the same in the CT-F1000 and CT-F8282 decks.
 
Does anyone know of a good source for the FF/REW motor (RXM-019)? So far I have not been able to find one so far (OK, I have only been looking since Friday). I would also rather not buy another unit for parts if I can avoid it.

I have also thought about recapping this deck if I am this deep already. Is this something I should consider? I am mostly finished with my SX-950 recap and so far it has been successful!
 
The motor, I don't know if a commercial equivalent has even been documented. As for a donor, I'll have to check the slush pile.That won't happen quickly.

RE: recap.
There's a lot of adjustments that would be bolluxed up.

It's not like a receiver where only the stereo decoder is usually knocked mildly out of whack.
 
Thanks markthefixer!

There is no rush on the motor. I just wanted to know if there was a source that I looked over.

I did notice that there were a lot of things to adjust and could easily mess up. I will leave the recap for later.

I will take the transport out sometime this week and check the clutch.
 
Alright,

Just giving a quick update:

I bought another "for parts / in need of repair" CT-F9191 to use for parts on my original Ct-F9191.

My "parts" unit was absolutely filthy and at first, and looked to be in sad shape. I spent some time yesterday cleaning the wood, face plate, heads, and capstan.

The wood sides on this deck are in rough shape.

I put an old audiobook tape in, turned it on, and it sounds much better than my other unit did!

Right now I am listening to Kansas - Leftoverture On my "parts" deck. :rockon:

So long story short: my "parts" deck will become my main deck and my original deck will become my parts deck.
I have found that several screws, and the FF/REW motor were missing and one meter was damaged but still worked on my original deck. It is in worse shape than my new deck. Interestingly enough, the one of the few things good on my original deck was the FF / REW clutch was still intact without any cracks.

On my new deck, the power switch is lose and bent and the power cord has seen better days. I will swap over the switch, power cord, and the wood sides from my original deck.

Oh, and my new deck does have a working FF / REW motor :banana: but the clutch definitely needs help. :(

If anything comes up while making two bad decks into one great one, I will post back here.

Thanks for the help so far!! :D
 
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Personally I think these Vintage Pioneers from the mid to late 70's have much more charm and style than the decks from the mid 80's going into the 90's, the plastic face/body decks just don't do it for me.
 
Alright,

Just giving a quick update:

I bought another "for parts / in need of repair" CT-F9191 to use for parts on my original Ct-F9191.

My "parts" unit was absolutely filthy and at first, and looked to be in sad shape. I spent some time yesterday cleaning the wood, face plate, heads, and capstan.

The wood sides on this deck are in rough shape.

I put an old audiobook tape in, turned it on, and it sounds much better than my other unit did!

Right now I am listening to Kansas - Leftoverture On my "parts" deck. :rockon:

So long story short: my "parts" deck will become my main deck and my original deck will become my parts deck.
I have found that several screws, and the FF/REW motor were missing and one meter was damaged but still worked on my original deck. It is in worse shape than my new deck. Interestingly enough, the one of the few things good on my original deck was the FF / REW clutch was still intact without any cracks.

On my new deck, the power switch is lose and bent and the power cord has seen better days. I will swap over the switch, power cord, and the wood sides from my original deck.

Oh, and my new deck does have a working FF / REW motor :banana: but the clutch definitely needs help. :(

If anything comes up while making two bad decks into one great one, I will post back here.

Thanks for the help so far!! :D

And we're left wanting more...
 
And we're left wanting more...

Sorry guys! :eek:

I am left wanting more too!

I know how annoying it can be to have members who do not keep their threads updated, especially over two years later and here I am, just now updating this thread...

Unfortunately, I had to put all of my vintage electronics repair/restoration stuff on hold until I finish college. Time and money is tight and I do not want to do a half-baked job on repairing and restoring my vintage electronics.

Just an update: Not much has happened since my last post regarding the two CT-F9191 Cassette Decks. I still have both and I will be using the first CT-F9191 I bought as a parts unit and the second CT-F9191 as my restoration deck.

As much as I hate to cannibalize gear, the first deck had much more wrong inside than I initially thought and would require the cannibalization of another deck to get working again. Some DIY'er had messed with many things unfortunately.

So, as of now, the parts deck is in a box in a closet and the future restoration deck is on my sound system shelf I built, just staring me in the face every morning.

I do listen to my Pioneer SX-950 quite regularly that I fixed up before I originally posted this thread and has been working flawlessly ever since.

Hopefully there will not be anywhere near as big of gap in between updates in the future. :thumbsup:

Restoration candidate, just waiting for restoration:

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