ELAC Miracord TT -share all about 'em

[mshepard]

Monk,

The only cylindrical part like that appearing on the 10 exploded parts diagram - at least that I can see - is item 125a. This is associated with start lever 2 item 125. (There is also a start lever 1 item 152)

The 10 service manual at VE has this diagram. While that manual is German language, the one that DLucy posted above is in English and the parts diagrams and item numbers are very close. The same part is shown as 125.1 and designated "roll" on the 50ii diagram. Since I can't read Deutsch, I find the item on the 10 diagram and then look it up again on the 50ii diagram.

If I can find a little time I will see if I can locate it on my 10.

Keep the faith man, you will get this unit back together and it will work great.

Mike

 

[likebike23]

Nice detective work Mike! The cylindrical part is associated with a start lever, eh? Isn't the latest problem related to the table starting when it shouldn't?

 

[monkboughtlunch]

Thanks everyone! I'm making progress thanks to your help. My turntable issues are improving but I'm not back to fully functional yet.

The exploded diagram that miscrms00 posted confirmed there is a spacer under the cam wheel.

I disassembled the unit, removed the cam wheel, cleaned and regreased it. I also reseated the spacer.

Now when I plug the unit it, it correctly is in the off state. (Remember, before it was on when I plugged in). And if I lift the tonearm from rest and move it towards the platter, the motor turns on. If I manually move the tonearm to rest it turns off. And if I press any of the start buttons, the motor begins turning. So far, so good.

The issue is when I press any of the start buttons from the tonearm rest position, the tonearm will lift up then sit itself backdown on the rest without moving inward and then turn off when it sits back down. If I manually move the tonearm to the end of the record, it the auto return mechanism will engage.

Another oddity I hear is the brake noise is intermittent. Any idea what could cause these issues? Could having turned that large nut underneath cause this? Or is this something else?

Additionally, the tonearm is now not tracking properly -- skating across my test record.

Pictures below of cam wheel and spacer for posterity. The cam wheel grease was worse off than the bearing grease. Cam wheel grease was turning to cement. Brass spacer is shown reseated in the third picture below.

 

[monkboughtlunch]

I was able to fix the skating issue and will share for posterity. (It was not tracking force). The two nuts shown below can't be too tight. If they are too tight it will spring the arm upward.

The two remaining issues I need to resolve now are:

• When auto start button is depressed, the tonearm lifts up and sits back down on the tonearm rest. Then turns off. It won't move inward and land the needle on the record.
• Braking pad not fully engaging the platter

 

[monkboughtlunch]

As far as the brake pad not engaging, one side of the turntable platter is angled higher than the other. When the platter turns, that same side stays higher (it doesn't wobble but remains constant).

Here's a picture: When viewing from the rear of turntable, the platter is tilted so it is consistenly higher over the brake pad. It should be level. Any idea what would cause the non level platter? The angled difference doesn't wobble or move when the platter rotates.

 

[flasher1]

As far as the brake pad not engaging, one side of the turntable platter is angled higher than the other. When the platter turns, that same side stays higher (it doesn't wobble but remains constant).

Here's a picture: When viewing from the rear of turntable, the platter is tilted so it is consistenly higher over the brake pad. It should be level. Any idea what would cause the non level platter? The angled difference doesn't wobble or move when the platter rotates.

View attachment 898316

It's the missing spacer that is causing the platter to be too low. Remember the three nuts on the large black part? That black part has the spindle on it. At the end where the two nuts are, not the end with the double nut, there are two studs. The spacer goes on one of the studs. It goes between the stud and the large black part on whatever side is low. Sometimes there are more than one spacer too! Persevere!

 

[monkboughtlunch]

It's the missing spacer that is causing the platter to be too low. Remember the three nuts on the large black part? That black part has the spindle on it. At the end where the two nuts are, not the end with the double nut, there are two studs. The spacer goes on one of the studs. It goes between the stud and the large black part on whatever side is low. Sometimes there are more than one spacer too! Persevere!

Hi -- Are you saying there is a missing spacer on one of the studs below noted with red arrows? What does the spacer look like and how thick is it?

 

[monkboughtlunch]

It's the missing spacer that is causing the platter to be too low. Remember the three nuts on the large black part? That black part has the spindle on it. At the end where the two nuts are, not the end with the double nut, there are two studs. The spacer goes on one of the studs. It goes between the stud and the large black part on whatever side is low. Sometimes there are more than one spacer too! Persevere!

You were right! There were 4 wafer thin spacers that had stuck to the bottom of my lamp. I put them in and it leveled the turntable.

Also, the auto mechanism is now working 100%. I'm not sure why everything is working now. But it is.

I'm really amazed at the engineering of this thing. It's really built to last. No cheap parts.

 

[dander]

I am loving the pictures of your work......this is making me want one, but I have other irons in the audio fire. I do not need, I do not need.....

 

[monkboughtlunch]

OK, now that my 10H is operating well again (thanks everyone), I'm ready to finish the restoration by reducing rumble and improving speed accuracy. Thoughts? Anyone tried any of these restoration steps?

• New motor mounts -- does anyone know what replacement motor mount parts would work?
• New idler wheel -- any recommendations on who can best service these?
• Shave pulley at machine shop. The 33 and 45 consistently run over 1% fast. I experimented with sanding it a bit last year and it improved.
• 16 RPM = 2.20 mm
• 33 RPM = 4.49 mm
• 45 RPM = 6.08 mm
• 78 RPM = 10.52 mm

 

[monkboughtlunch]

I am loving the pictures of your work......this is making me want one, but I have other irons in the audio fire. I do not need, I do not need.....

Thanks. If you get one, get the "H" model. For example, 10H, 40H, 50H etc. Those have the ultra high quality Papst hysteresis synchronous motor -- essentially the same highly acclaimed motor used in the legendary Empire, Rek-O-Kut B12GH and Fairchild turntables. The Miracords fly under the radar because they are a changer. Not many realize they have a legendary Papst under the hood.

I'm partial to the 10H -- super cool mid century modern styling and bullet proof, tank-like build quality. The chrome tonearm, counterweight and cylindrical pushbuttons are a work of art and example of form following function.

They will easily run forever if you service them. I've read that these are more reliable than Dual models of the same period. A changer is not the last word in audio fidelity. But these are fun and would make a great complement to a vintage system or console. Great idler drive PRAT and sound quality is nevertheless quite excellent. And surprisingly, the in-house tonearm design can track like a bloodhound.

I'm running a Shure M44-7 which is period correct. However, I think I may change to a Shure M35x for superior audio quality.

You can still find NOS models from the 60s on eBay from time to time for a couple of hundred bucks or less. Be patient.

 

[monkboughtlunch]

The original foam in the 4 corner springs from the 1960s always disintegrates. I replaced mine with long-lasting M-D backer rod 5/8". Just vacuum out the old foam and cut the M-D backer rod to size.

https://www.amazon.com/M-D-Building-Products-71506-Backer/dp/B000BQP1D4

 

[monkboughtlunch]

RE: Replacement motor mounts to reduce motor induced rumble

Has anyone experimented with replacing their motor mounts? I found this online:

"Just worked on a Elac/Miracord 750 that has a similar motor mount. There is no grommet around the 3rd white plastic piece. It just floats when set right. The motor mounts on the 2 rubber grommets. The grommets on this unit turned rock hard causing significant rumble. Replaced with a couple of stock grommets from Lowes. Hillman 7/16OD x 3/16ID. Rumble almost eradicated."

Anyone know what motor the 750 uses? Did it have a Papst or a different motor?

Did Elac use the same size motor mounts for all of the "H" Papst motor models? For example, 10H, 40H, 50H, etc? It looks like there are a couple of Hillman SKUs with these dimensions. But unclear if the Hillman model might be a fit since I don't know what motor is used in a 750.

Hillman SKUs matching the dimensions for the mounts used in a Miracord 750.

55052-B (25) - 7/16 O.D. x 3/16 I.D. x 3/16 Th x 5/16 Groove
55053-C (30) - 7/16 O.D. x 3/16 I.D. x 7/32 Th x 5/16 Groove

 

[monkboughtlunch]

RE: Replacement Idler Tire Rubber To Reduce Rumble

Can an off the shelf O-Ring be inserted into the Elac 10H idler wheels? Or does it have to be sent off to a replacement rubber specialist?

 

[monkboughtlunch]

After servicing the turntable, I've run several tests and it appears to be fully functional. The single play spindle and changer spindles work properly.

However, I noticed a potential issue when the spindle is flipped over to put the turntable in the "continuous play" mode. Can anyone tell me is this is normal or if there is an issue?

Basically, when the turntable is playing a record in continuous mode, the first time I press "stop," it lifts the tonearm, returns it to the rest, and then the tonearm lifts back up and sits it back down on the playing record again (it doesn't stop). If I press, "stop" a second time, then the tonearm lifts up from the playing record and returns to the rest and then turns off.

Is this normal? Or is the turntable designed to interrupt continuous play when the stop button is pressed the first time (as opposed to the second time)? I would think that pressing stop the first time should interrupt play (instead of the 2nd time which I am experiencing).

Below: Elac instruction manual



Below: spindle in continuous play mode

 

[monkboughtlunch]

I took a look at my idler wheel. It appears the 10H idler tire is easily user replaceable -- similar to an o-ring. It just slides off (it's not glued on). See pictures below.

Imprinted on the original rubber tire included with the turntable are the markings: 29753 1 20

Do these numerical markings represent a universal size in Europe? Anyone know if this type of rubber ring is still manufactured? The inner portion is narrower to allow it to be recessed in the aluminum wheel.

Here are pictures from my 10H. I'm thinking a replacement tire will reduce rumble.

 

[mshepard]

RE: Replacement Idler Tire Rubber To Reduce Rumble
Can an off the shelf O-Ring be inserted into the Elac 10H idler wheels? Or does it have to be sent off to a replacement rubber specialist?

The motor pulley is stepped with flat mating surfaces. A radiused Oring will not mate with the pulley flats. You need a true idler wheel which has a flat surface on the OD.

Did Elac use the same size motor mounts for all of the "H" Papst motor models? For example, 10H, 40H, 50H, etc? It looks like there are a couple of Hillman SKUs with these dimensions. But unclear if the Hillman model might be a fit since I don't know what motor is used in a 750.

It looks to me like ELAC used the same rubber bushings for all of their motors, H and otherwise. I don't know that for a fact but it makes sense and looks that way based on my Miracords.

 

[monkboughtlunch]

It looks to me like ELAC used the same rubber bushings for all of their motors, H and otherwise. I don't know that for a fact but it makes sense and looks that way based on my Miracords.

I measured the metal rod the rubber motor mount envelops. It's about 4.10mm or 3/16". That matches with the inner diameter of the Hillman SKUs above. However, I'm not sure how well the rest of the Hillman dimensions stack up vs the original grommets. Anyone tried a Hillman motor mount?

 

[monkboughtlunch]

So I'm reasonably convinced that I still need to adjust something on my 10H. Nearly everything works fine. But when in continuous play mode (upside down spindle), I have to hit the stop button twice (instead of once) to interrupt play and stop the table. Anyone know what would cause this issue? Is it as simple as adjusting something? Perhaps the large cam stroke nut?

 

[JFRACE]

From what I understand you will have to hit it twice as its on continuous play. The idler wheel should be level and if not will throw off speed control, that's why the outer wheel needs to be flat. You could try sanding it slightly with a drill and sandpaper and make sure once reinstalled that it's level on the spindle when engaged . I know when I did my du a 1019 my wheel needed to be re leveled and once I did speed was fine.