Why the shallow knee in EL34/6CA7 pentode curves?

kward

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Why is it that the EL34/6CA7 has a significantly shallower knee in the pentode plate curves than does the 6550 or 6L6? Is it something to do with how they are constructed, or is this an optical illusion since the scales between the two graphs are not exactly the same?

Example comparing 250V screen curves for both 6CA7 and 6550:

6CA7 vs. 6550.jpg
 
I don't think it's an illusion ... the scales aren't exactly the same, but they don't seem too far off. Perhaps it's because the EL34 is a true pentode and the 6550 is a beam tetrode? (Grasping at straws here...)
 
The 6CA7 is a beam tetrode as well though. You'd think that would perform a little more like a 6550 if it was something specific to it being a beam tube. Unless they made the beam plates in such a way that it more closely mimics an actual EL34. I know people say that 6CA7's don't sound the same as an EL34 though.
 
It does in fact have to do with the suppressor element, as it is the presence that 5th element that distinguishes the characteristics of a pentode (of any type) from otherwise that of a tetrode -- which (among other things) is all about the resulting characteristic of the knee.

In the technical manuals, only Sylvania uses the term "Beam" in its descriptor for the 6CA7, referring to it as a Beam Pentode. All other manufacturers refer to the 6CA7 as a Power Pentode. It is specifically Sylvania's "Fat Boy" version then that employs the beam topology (aligned grids and beam forming plates). GE manufactured the fat boy version as well for a period, while RCA simply sold relabeled Sylvania examples. The 6CA7 offerings from all other manufacturers remained true to the original EL34 pentode construction.

The significance of this is that the Sylvania fat boy was not the beginning (nor the end) of the 6CA7. The 6CA7 started life (and continues) as being the original Philips EL34 tube, but designated by the American numbering system. The Sylvania fat boy beam version then was simply just that: a unique version of the tube. While many have come to use the fat boy's beam topology to define the difference between the EL34 and the 6CA7, such is not the case. The 6CA7 existed -- as did its direct relationship to the EL34 -- well before the fat boy version was even an idea to be had. As a result, the beam characteristics of Sylvania's fat boy version distinguish it from both the EL34, and the 6CA7.

Dave
 
aha, that makes sense. I just took a look in my Sylvania tube manual, and the 6CA7 in there appears to be a tall skinny bottle. No plate curves, it simply calls it a beam power pentode and says its identical to an EL34. Not sure what year that dates from, its a 12th edition and is before zip codes. No listing in the handy RCA manual. I've got other RCA books , a GE and I think a Tung-Sol around here though. I'll check those later.
 
6CA7 is how Amperex marketed the Philips EL34 in North America dating back to the 1950s.

Look at some old 1950s magazine ads, in Radio & TV News, etc.
 
Yes, that was the nub of my question, Dave. I referenced the 6CA7 specifically in my question since I also thought (incorrectly) that all instances of it used beam forming plates if they wanted to call it a 6CA7, Turns out that was only partially correct. I suspected something was "up" with this.

This explains why if you google the 6CA7, you will find discussions saying that the 6CA7 is a beam type and other discussion saying it is a power pentode type, with both camps emphatic in their statements. But now it makes sense...

Really good info, thanks!
 
I was just looking at an image of the big bottle sylvania.
Am i crazy or is the plate structure mimic a 7591?
 
Quick look at some 6F6 curves indicates similar shallow knee to the EL34. Those are also a real pentode vs a beam pentode.

www.r-type.org/pdfs/6f6.pdf

Wouldn't surprise me if there are some similarities. Both are a beam tube so perhaps they took the basic shape and used it. Not sure which of those came first though, Westinghouse with the 7591 or Sylvania with their fat bottle 6CA7 so its hard to say which copied what.
 
I have always regarded the two having an identifiable difference with a distinction. The EL34 is properly always a classic power pentode, and the 6CA7 always a sheet beam kinkless tetrode, essentially a lower rated 6550. Identifying one as the other is imo incorrect and confusing, regardless of interchangeability.
Modern pentodes including later production EL34 may have aligned grids, which can reduce screen current as with beam tets. Old school pentodes like 42/ 6F6 had unaligned grids with relatively higher G2 current.
 
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