Question about need for a headphone amp

wyceeric

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Hey folks, I have another question elsewhere about a potential 'phone upgrade, but this question is about the need for a separate amp, since one of the things on the "maybe" list is the 300 ohm Senn. HD600. My current cans are 32 ohm and sound good on anything they've been run with, but there's a lot of difference between 32 and 300.

Is it really possible/likely that the 'phone output of my home audio gear will not yield excellent performance? If not, what is the function of that feature? Is it like gear with substandard phono preamps, where a separate one is recommended because it's really not intended for serious use?

I hesitated to make this list, but surely some of these items must be capable of driving a pair of 300 ohm cans properly (?!).

Yamaha CR-1020, CA-610II, RX-460
Marantz 2285B, 2275
Sansui 8080DB
McIntosh MA 5100
Onkyo A7
Pioneer SA 9100
as well as various CD players with 'phone outs and volume controls

Frankly, if the choice is HD600 + amp vs. lower impedance cans, that may be reason to look more closely at the Philips X2 or the Shure 1440.

Could someone help straighten me out on all this? Thanks.
 
I have the HD580's and like them a lot. Why I like them is simple, they are "even" sounding, comfortable and most important never fatiguing to my ears.
I've listened to other cans before and after I purchased my 580's. AKG's, Audeze's, Grado's and other Sennheiser models. I tried more than one model from each manufacturer as well. Each time...it was the 580's I preferred.

The 580's do however need power. Grado's battery powered headphone amp was clean but underpowered. What I've been using for the last couple of years is a Schiit Vahalla 2 headphone amp. It's everything I need to power my 580's and sounds good.
I should point out that I much prefer my speakers, but when it's late and I don't want to disturb the household, I use my cans.
As you may know, the 580's are very similar to the HD600's and though I didnt answer your question directly, I thought you might find my impressions useful.
Whatever cans you choose, I think a headphone amp is the best way to get the most out of them.
Good luck!
 
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It is more complicated than just the impedance rating. For example, the Fostex T50RPs are rated at 50 OHMs and the AKG KQ701/K701 model is rated at 62 OHMs and both sound appreciably better with even a modest $100-$150 amp.

Again, this doesn't answer your question, but I would say unless a given headphoone is designed to get nearly its max potential out of a mobile device or receiver, once you are to headphones in the $200+ (that aren't Beats or V-Moda type stuff) they very well may benefit from at least a modest amp. I've heard the X2s and the Shure 840s, but both were through dedicated headphone amps.

I would say that the Sennheiser 600 or 650 has an awful lot of people that are fans, myself included and are certainly worthy of at least a small, well-respected headphone amp. If it's a price thing, you could get the 6XX from Massdrop and use that savings for the amp and if it is a looks thing, many amps are quite small and could be hidden such as the Shciit Magni.

I know a number of integrated amps and receivers have very decent headphone sections. No idea if any of those listed models are among them.
 
Thanks, fellas. I had figured it was about more than just impedance, that does make sense. My problem with the idea of the amp isn't about price or looks,
it's really more the principle of the matter. I've got a house so full of gear you can't swing a dead cat without hitting something in nearly every room. Wouldn't even kill me to get rid of a few things. Hey, guess what! Now I've got to get another piece of gear to get the most out of headphones.

I guess it's the nature of the thing and part of the deal that one needs an amp. I don't really know why this irritates me to the degree it does. Maybe it's just that I'm not a "headphone guy". At home, they are a convenience when I don't want to bother others; at the radio station they are a tool to help me do the best work I can do, because it's important to me to maintain a consistently high level of quality in my on air programming. I never listen with them because my speakers aren't cutting it or because I prefer the headphone experience. No offense is intended to those for whom headphone listening is their thing. This hobby is cool because there are tools available to make all of our preferred listening styles exceptional.

Anyway, I'll probably just suck it up and get a decent amp in order to optimize my time with my 'phones. Who knows, maybe I'll change my tune on the headphone "thing" when I hear them through a good amp.

Thanks for your responses and for talking me down off the ledge, I really appreciate the input.
 
I've been quite happy with a Little Dot MKII. It's a full OTL tube amp with no solid state amplification stage. It can be jumpered for low medium and high impedance phones. It can also handle several different tube types by changing jumpers.
 
I've been quite happy with a Little Dot MKII.

I've seen that one mentioned around here. Looked it up and it seems to be a decent one. Once I settle on which cans to upgrade to, I'll take a closer look at that and probably a bunch of other member recommended models. At this point I know zero about it, but it won't take long to get up to speed after perusing the threads and absorbing some of the collective knowledge. Thanks for the head start.


I've heard the X2s

How would you characterize the sound and performance to other open backs you've tried? Thanks.
 
Lucky me! Although I missed the Massdrop offering of the Little Dot MKII I found it for the same price ($119) on Newegg. Unfortunately Newegg has increased the price since then.
 
I'd say that for me, I'd take the 650s hands down over the X2. The overall clarity, detail and treble balance of the 650s is a step up from the X2s and those qualities of the 600s may be a bit of a step up from the 650 though my comparison between the 600 and 650 involved VERY broken-in 600s and reatively new 650s.

The AKG 701/702s have a larger and more natural soundstage than the X2s or the 600/650s but lack the low end impact of the 650s or X2s.

No right or wrongs and I could easily live with any of them, but I really like the Q701s or the 600/650s for classical and acoustic jazz and something more like the Beyer 880s for rock and produced jazz.
 
I have HD600s and while I do prefer listening to them through my Valhalla 2, they sound decent plugged into my Yamaha RX-V2300 and even my Lenovo laptop is ok (when I cannot be bothered running the laptop through the DAC to the Valhalla). Tonight I will give attempt a better side by side comparison of the HD600 through the Yamaha vs through the Valhalla 2.

Edit: I will say it might be worth trying the HD600s with your stuff and see if you find it enjoyable. If so, you can always try adding a headphone amp later to see if you are missing anything.
 
Ok, my test is complete. I used a raspberry pi with a hifiberry digi+ board connected to a Schiit Modi Multibit as the source. The only thing that changed between the two listenings is that the first one used the Schiit Valhalla 2 headphone amp and the second was with the Yamaha RX-V2300 receiver.

The Yamaha sounded ok, and actually seemed a little crisper. I would not mind listening to it music through it.

The Valhalla 2, on the other hand was a little looser but did provide deeper and broader sound. Bass had a bit more oomph, and the sound stage seemed better.

Results: if I did not have the headphone amp, I would be happy with the Yamaha receiver's abilities to drive them, and I do use it from time to time for watching videos. Having the headphone amp does produce a better experience, but it can be treated as a nice upgrade more than an absolute necessity.

While I do not know exactly how your equipment will sound, I cannot imagine all of them being intolerable.
 
Anyway, I'll probably just suck it up and get a decent amp in order to optimize my time with my 'phones. Who knows, maybe I'll change my tune on the headphone "thing" when I hear them through a good amp.

People mention "decent" headphone amps. Is there a particular price point that would define decent? Or, is just about any headphone amp considered decent?
 
Well, I have three (Little Dot MKII, Bravo V2, Nobsound NS-08E) and each one sounds different. Although all three use tubes, only the Little Dot is completely tube and OTL. I have replaced/upgraded the tubes in all three. IMO the Little Dot is the best sounding.
 
Pulled the trigger on the HD600's. Arrived yesterday, so I'll live with them for a while and see how it goes. Sound is pretty good so far, but expect it to improve with use. Thanks for the responses, everyone.
 
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