Currently running onkyo tx606 7.1 for three channel music--am I going to appreciably upgrade on sound quality without going to expensive separates. Running this with B&W 602 S2 and LCR6 ctr. Amp rated 90 wpc with two channels running 8 ohms 20hz-20kHz. A-T PL 120 TT w/Nagoaka mp mm 110 cart. project mm phono preamp and old onkyo cd changer.
avr vs dedicated amps
- Thread starter jdub071
- Start date
A quality stereo amp would make a mess of your AVR. Don't get me wrong, many AVR's provide a decent sound, also many of the manufacturers are
trying to deliver good items, I've worked on several Yamaha RX-V's, good design, good components but "impossible" to repair (too complicated).
It's cost prohibative to buy a new stereo amp ($2000-$4000???). If you buy vintage then you need to budget for refurbishment costs, if you don't
have the skill to diy refurb then this option is almost cost prohibative also, unless it's a special item. Plenty of great vintage gear out there...
trying to deliver good items, I've worked on several Yamaha RX-V's, good design, good components but "impossible" to repair (too complicated).
It's cost prohibative to buy a new stereo amp ($2000-$4000???). If you buy vintage then you need to budget for refurbishment costs, if you don't
have the skill to diy refurb then this option is almost cost prohibative also, unless it's a special item. Plenty of great vintage gear out there...
If you are running the B&Ws fullrange they will sound better with a good 4 ohm rated power amplifier.
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
Things AVR excel at. Movies, 5.1 or higher surround sound, and TV audio. This is what is important to AVR, what most of the price point is spent for. Things that AVR are lesser at for their price points are: Amplifier power for full range speakers, FM/AM tuner performance, Phono stages, engineering excellence for two channel audio, build quality, reliability, quality of cosmetics, durability. 5.1 or higher is affordable because something else was cheapened. Build a Pioneer SX 1050 or higher in 5.1 channel it would cost $10,000 and would weigh 300 pounds to keep the quality just to name an example. You can't get something for nothing. I call surround receivers VAR (Video Audio receivers, as the surround and the video are the most important features, everything else is demoted to bottom of the priority scale).
Oldsansui441
Super Member
Depends on the AVR, l used to think the same as many comments above (this is the reason l decided to get into vintage audio in the first place 
) but have since proven many times that a couple of RX-V AVR's competed very favourably with some decent quality 70's amps/receivers and trounced some 80's amps. I am not including the phono stages here as l have never seriously used one on an AVR.
I do agree completely that if an AVR and a 2 channel amp are the same price that realistically the 2 channel should be of a higher quality due to the much lower part count and all audio design (no video etc).
) but have since proven many times that a couple of RX-V AVR's competed very favourably with some decent quality 70's amps/receivers and trounced some 80's amps. I am not including the phono stages here as l have never seriously used one on an AVR.I do agree completely that if an AVR and a 2 channel amp are the same price that realistically the 2 channel should be of a higher quality due to the much lower part count and all audio design (no video etc).
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Binkman
Lunatic Member
Certainly no harm in trying out with an analog amp for your analog stuff. I can (as many will agree) hear the diff. in lps and cd's with analog over digital. My speakers are 92db or greater refurbed cabs. My realistic sta-2300 and my denon avr-2707 are very close in specs and msrp but the 2300 has way lower %thd but no remote. I have 3 av's tested and you can hear analog over digital sound just human ears.
As I noted above you may check your onkyo user manual and if an aux out and built in DAC as many av's have, see if your remote has a remote out maybe borrow an amp and experiment.
I say it often; (like Kent Tefeteller hints) "It ain't a cheap hobby but cheaper than many"
As I noted above you may check your onkyo user manual and if an aux out and built in DAC as many av's have, see if your remote has a remote out maybe borrow an amp and experiment.
I say it often; (like Kent Tefeteller hints) "It ain't a cheap hobby but cheaper than many"
Putterman
Super Member
You best bet is to look for an AV receiver with preamp outs that would let you connect a separate power amp. The next model up the 607 has that feature, but you can probably find a pre HDMI near TOL AV receiver on CL or at a thrift with this feature for $100 or less.
What I suspect would give you a bigger bang for the buck would be to find a decent subwoofer to take the load of your receiver and speakers as well as adding almost an octave of bass and likely extend the life of the receiver which is prone to burnt out HDMI boards.
What I suspect would give you a bigger bang for the buck would be to find a decent subwoofer to take the load of your receiver and speakers as well as adding almost an octave of bass and likely extend the life of the receiver which is prone to burnt out HDMI boards.
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
Binkman, you sum my attitude about it well. That quote is one of the best ever from AK. A classic!
Yeah, I get that in the same price range a two channel amp is better as an amp--but what I'm wondering say in the 200-500 dollar range is it going to be enough better to be really noticeable. I remember the "old" days I had an ERA turntable with Grace 707 tonearm Grado cart speakers with KEF drivers and an entry level Marantz 1070 integrated amp which was a piece of doggy caca and was the weak link but overall the system sounded pretty good. Just about any entry level AVR nowadays would blow away that Marantz amp and I see all these old marantz amps on ebay for prices I have to laugh at. So I've been told put most of your hi-fi budget in speakers which I did. I bought these B&W's years ago 2002 and in lower price range's I havn't heard anything "new" that sounds much better and less expensive avr's seem to drive them pretty well--they're not real picky speakers--where I hear big differences in sound quality is how well a vinyl pressing or CD is recorded. Some are great and some are crap. I've been currently thinking about a cambridge am10, emotiva bas-x 100? yamaha a-s301 or 500. Are any of these going to appreciably beat my 9 yr. old Onkyo. I saw a review on Youtube of the emotiva bas-x and the guy said it would marginally beat a $150 onkyo stereo receover and that if you needed alot of hookups you should probably buy it. I thought what am I going to have to spend? Two grand to appreciably upgrade my sound?
Your Onkyo is rated for 6 to 16 ohm speakers; the B&Ws have a low imp of 4.3 ohms.
A lot of B&W speakers like a high(er) current amp to perform their best.
That is the reasoning behind my post above.
"I thought what am I going to have to spend? Two grand to appreciably upgrade my sound?"
A question only you can answer; I have @ $500 used amps and integrateds I'll take any day over AVRs that I've heard (for music).
A lot of B&W speakers like a high(er) current amp to perform their best.
That is the reasoning behind my post above.
"I thought what am I going to have to spend? Two grand to appreciably upgrade my sound?"
A question only you can answer; I have @ $500 used amps and integrateds I'll take any day over AVRs that I've heard (for music).
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From the owners manual: • The Zone 2 volume must be set on the Zone 2 amp.
The amp would need a volume control (integrated amp) or gain controls (pro audio amp).
whoaru99
Epic Member
Zone 2 often has other limitations like not being able to play sources connected through digital inputs.
Have to check the ower's manual to see if the unit passes digital input sources to Zone 2. If it does not then an option is to double connect the source, i.e. connect it using digital connection and analog connection. Then you could play the source via its analog connection in Zone 2.
Have to check the ower's manual to see if the unit passes digital input sources to Zone 2. If it does not then an option is to double connect the source, i.e. connect it using digital connection and analog connection. Then you could play the source via its analog connection in Zone 2.
Binkman
Lunatic Member
User manual:
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/onkyo/tx-sr606.shtml
Gave a quick read on the tx-sr606.. seems like all your input analog devices are covered including phono mm pre. Zone2 is usually used for another room or perhaps you have a very large room or adjacent rooms or a garage? Really depends what you want to do. zone 2 can be used with fm transmitter to separate speakers, too. You can do both with a some experimenting as said. If you like the sound then you may hear a marginal difference on Phono and cd but I'm speaking from a purist point of view. Notoriously cd's were copied so badly you can hear the needle drop and here in mid atlantic hundreds of flea markets were busted for phony cuts and labels... but good lp's are usually distinctive per label used but some represses are reported good, too.
Class D would be okay for separate room but I don't see any advantage where you could run cat 5 cable or suggested fm to rated speakers. Your amp already is 'd' class pre I think per SM but I'm not reading 135 pages.
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/onkyo/tx-sr606.shtml
Gave a quick read on the tx-sr606.. seems like all your input analog devices are covered including phono mm pre. Zone2 is usually used for another room or perhaps you have a very large room or adjacent rooms or a garage? Really depends what you want to do. zone 2 can be used with fm transmitter to separate speakers, too. You can do both with a some experimenting as said. If you like the sound then you may hear a marginal difference on Phono and cd but I'm speaking from a purist point of view. Notoriously cd's were copied so badly you can hear the needle drop and here in mid atlantic hundreds of flea markets were busted for phony cuts and labels... but good lp's are usually distinctive per label used but some represses are reported good, too.
Class D would be okay for separate room but I don't see any advantage where you could run cat 5 cable or suggested fm to rated speakers. Your amp already is 'd' class pre I think per SM but I'm not reading 135 pages
.I want to use zone 2 in same room to hook up a separate amp to run analog sources primarily turntable but also fm analog and cd player w/analog outputs. I am thinking about emotiva bas-x a100 which is 50 wpc 8 ohms 20 Hz to 20Khz it is class ab w/ one pr. speaker hookups and inputs and outputs one each so you can hook it to preamp also has volume control. My listening room is moderately sized and L shaped so I don't need a lot of power. The present situation is enough to drive the nabors nuts as they have already complained, so I won't be blasting Whitesnake at 110 db. I like pretty much all varieties of music from electronic to acoustic, jazz, rock, pop, reggae, country, RB, classical, opera, new age and whatever else strikes my fancy. I swapped out my onkyo and put it in bedroom where I like to watch movies with my other system and brought in my Denon AVR 688, it's rated at 75 wpc 20Hz to 20Khz and as far as the difference in power between it and the Onkyo there is no discernible difference. I just think my Denon is slightly warmer and more musical than the Onkyo for my aged ears. Also considering Crown XLI-800 which is also AB class and rated at 300 wpc 4 ohms, 200wpc 8 ohms. This is a pro amp for DJ,s live, churches etc. will it sound as good as the emotiva? Both of these amps have gotten great reviews. I'm running two B&W 602 S2's which are 8 ohm rated and 90dbl w/one watt at one meter. I am interested in clean sound and good headroom. Maybe eventually I will get separate pre-amp when budget allows.
