Do you think the industries are watching

Mr Pig,

My point is that the industry largely works on generalizations. I think they call it market research.

And like soundmotor says they usually look within the prevailing ecosystem for the answers, which leads to a self-perpetuating spiral into mindless "aspirational" design. There has always been an uneasy relationship between decor and sound and this is how it is addressed by the manufacturers, erring on the side of insipid stylized modern design to my eye.

The actual population of audio lovers is far more diverse and the US is only a small part of it and not the major market for fancy hifi by any means, not any more. The culture is different in Europe and very different again in Asia.

I think it is safe to say that somebody who will buy $100k speakers is rich. Maybe not super rich but rich enough for the purposes of this discussion..

Selling a $100k speaker in the US is rare but in Korea it happens all of the time. Maybe even more common in Shanghai. Some of these buyers are dedicated audio nuts but many just want a fancy sound system, and as soundmotor notes, their "home designers" often do the buying for them.

Indeed the most expensive gear is easier to sell, because the people who buy it, rich guys, always have money to blow. When the economy gets bad in Japan or Korea, the middle of the market drops out and only cheap gear and really expensive gear sells.

Distributors usually don't even want to mess with $5000 items because there isn't enough in it, after paying shipping, duty, and moving it to a retailer. i know a few major Korean distributors. They call a $20000 unit, a cheap model. They look at their take, not the retail price.

I suppose one thing that is missed in the US audio discussion is that the mainstream high end market is not focused on the average middle income audiophile. They are fishing for the whales wherever on the globe they are to be found. it is a luxury trade not unlike Swiss watches. Expensive gear sells, in part, because it is expensive. A person that wants a $75000 preamp will not buy a $20000 or $2000 preamp regardless of how good it sounds.

It's weird, but that's the way it is on the world high end audio scene, for the big name international players especially. "Average" audiophiles are not preeminent in the game they are playing.

I'd be totally into trashpicking myself, if I could find what I want. Around here, a rather rich neighborhood generally, all there is at curbside is Ikea furniture from the transient student population. I guess they are recycling all the old Audio Note amps and Altec theater gear they don't want anymore.
 
And look at records. Why do you think Sony is building a record pressing plant? Because the demand is growing. And where was this apparent first? In all the vintage forums and used record places.

I would think that Sony would have had better internal statistics on the demand, sales, and production of new records than what could be gathered from vintage forums and used record stores. They are going to be pressing and selling new records, not used ones.
 
I bought a 1500 guilders (600 USD price back then)Yamaha K1000 DBX cassette player new which was my biggest audio buy ever. It was my last time buying new and it is over 35 years ago. All other money into other new audio stuff was about the same so totally HFL3000 (1200 USD)spent some 35 years ago.
All bought since then is all used and bought at low price from CL alike, fleamarket, whatever, dead or alive. (assume cdp's $10, defective amps $50, speakers at about 10% of what they would be same quality new,etc).
My habit of repairing old stuff as a hobby is not beneficial for audio industry, either.

Somehow, the (small) world of techs also into audio hobby, and the industry big world mostly being into moving boxes containing "untested content", do not always get along well, if money is in the game ;)

People like me are probably not wanted by the audio industry...:biggrin:
 
they might want to pay attention to see how to make stuff that lasts.

Frankly, I have a vintage turntable, and that's the only old thing in my lineup. I like older TTs better. I like what I get from my modern amps, and I've owned old and new. Just preference, not fact.

But if someone like me - who started on vintage - can move to modern equipment, they would be smart to poke around and grab the few of us who do.
 
@Bodyblue posted in another thread about people being paid 0.25$ per review posted online.

This leads me to think how many fake account and fake review a forum like AK has?

I have seen several posters that have an agenda but I dont think it is quite like the Automotive sites that are rife with parasites. If you go to Motor Trend you will see they turned off the "Comments" section a few months ago. They tried several formats then just gave up. The paid for posting trolls just swamped them so they just gave up. Car and Driver has a lively comment section but they seem to be able to weed out the trolls.......especially the ones that ask about their paid trips and junkets.

Another point I forgot to make about the company that was paying for blogging was they they also paid for negative posts trashing the competition. They actually supplied talking points like one sees on political sites. I have seen some posters here that seem to be only out to trash some brands but I think that is more of a "lone troll" type of person just out to be pissy. The internet is the wild west and one gets to see how black and dark it can be.
 
they might want to pay attention to see how to make stuff that lasts.

....

In my country there is a consumers review site having 1-5 star rating for audio quality, features, ease of use, design (looks) and durability.
Now, you see people reviewing giving 5 star for durability.
At the same time, the time the reviewer his or hers posession time is stated and almost all times this is (translated) "in posession for a few days" or "in posession for a few weeks".

So if industry would want to give the idea something is durable, such review site is not of much help, since it basically states the product apparently survived shipping and not much longer, yet. :D:D
 
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Heck, most (about 60%) of my mates in audio are mid 30's with the rest being in their late 50's and on. We usually look for the best sound for the dollar and source value new or used parts and components from all over the world.

Seems kind of necessary to buy online as Australia never had sufficient population to buy enough quality gear through the 60's-90's and generally the majority of audio stores sell gear that's so far above what we can easily afford it's ridiculous. Knowledge by those working in the stores is also often quite low.

Then again someone else I know in my age bracket seems to go through an awful lot of extremely nice and expensive gear. I can scarcely keep track of what he's running.

Having said that over time you become aware of those local Australian retailers who work from their own homes and sell fantastic gear at great prices, which have a wealth of knowledge built up over many years who seem to be more in it for the love of the hobby than the money and are aware of old fashioned business ideas like not ripping off the customer and quality follow up service. Also no problem loaning trial gear. Those individuals all seem to be in their 60's and older. They're also often quite active on the forums.

Anyway, there seem two distinct age groups in this hobby here in Australia. I can't say this is indicative of the entire market, just my experiences within it.
 
I guess I'm not saying it very clearly. The trends are out in the wild if industry cares to look. I see this over and over again. That is why I think they are looking. I wouldn't expect them to get any stats or numbers from forums such as this or used online sales, but if they had been looking, they would have seen prices going up on eBay and more people participating as time went on. That is an indicator that it is time to look at the numbers as see if there is something actually happening.

That's all I'm saying. We are only little peas in the pie after all. But if you are looking for trends, that is where you should be looking.
 
If "the industry" were watching AK, the main trends they would come away with are:

People want to hook up ten sources to their receiver. Separates are evil.
People want stuff they can daisy chain four or five amplifiers together.
People want a $200 tube amp that will mate perfectly with their $75 tube preamp.
People want all their gear to be stocked at Goodwills and Salvation Army thrift stores, and new gear cannot cost more than $150. Vintage must all be under $50.
People want only the good stuff - like the stuff made in 1970, except made now - and it has to be priced lower than the same used stuff is now.
People want all their gear to be the most respected gear in town, with little roadside shrines to their beloved brands at every Starbucks, so they can feel validated.
People want any new gear to be priced at 80% off twice a month, so they can start a score thread on how they screwed the man by buying on an 80% off day.
People, outside of the techs with walkers, are liable to electrocute themselves, set fire to their house, and make all kinds of magic smoke disappear, within minutes of hooking up a system.
People believe the last great audiophile recordings made were Steely Dan's "Aja" and Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon."

And, finally, the greatest speakers in the world could easily be drawn from the group of Dynaco A25, Large Advents, Pioneer HPM100, JBL L100, AR3, and EPI 100s. Hands down.
 
If "the industry" were watching AK, the main trends they would come away with are:

People want to hook up ten sources to their receiver. Separates are evil.
People want stuff they can daisy chain four or five amplifiers together.
People want a $200 tube amp that will mate perfectly with their $75 tube preamp.
People want all their gear to be stocked at Goodwills and Salvation Army thrift stores, and new gear cannot cost more than $150. Vintage must all be under $50.
People want only the good stuff - like the stuff made in 1970, except made now - and it has to be priced lower than the same used stuff is now.
People want all their gear to be the most respected gear in town, with little roadside shrines to their beloved brands at every Starbucks, so they can feel validated.
People want any new gear to be priced at 80% off twice a month, so they can start a score thread on how they screwed the man by buying on an 80% off day.
People, outside of the techs with walkers, are liable to electrocute themselves, set fire to their house, and make all kinds of magic smoke disappear, within minutes of hooking up a system.
People believe the last great audiophile recordings made were Steely Dan's "Aja" and Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon."

And, finally, the greatest speakers in the world could easily be drawn from the group of Dynaco A25, Large Advents, Pioneer HPM100, JBL L100, AR3, and EPI 100s. Hands down.

Wow, just wow. Somebody needs a hug!
 
Some brands made only high end, some made only low end and many made a full line of items.

Soundesign and Craig for example were pretty much budget items. HH Scott and Fisher started out as high end and ended up a victim of Asian companies buying the company, firing everybody and slapping the good name on budget crap. Some brands like Sony and Pioneer and Kenwood made lower priced items that were still made pretty well. Radio Shack was a bit of an outlier. They indeed sold low end stuff (similar to the SD all in one items) but they also sold some very nice, well built items as can be seen by how many of those items are still out there and functioning.......
 
I got better results at Mcintosh amplifier clinics. It wasn't a year from the time I wanted a midrange tone control, until the C-30 was introduced with 5 graphic tone controls. I wanted a way to record one thing and listen to some else, too. But I won't claim the record selector. I don't know who thought of the record and playback processor loops, but I use them. Today I have a real hang up about current pre-amps, they are as inflexible as they were in the early 60's. But I guess everyone does all their editing, and custom programming on the computer, what a shame.
 
Some brands made only high end, some made only low end and many made a full line of items.

Soundesign and Craig for example were pretty much budget items. HH Scott and Fisher started out as high end and ended up a victim of Asian companies buying the company, firing everybody and slapping the good name on budget crap. Some brands like Sony and Pioneer and Kenwood made lower priced items that were still made pretty well. Radio Shack was a bit of an outlier. They indeed sold low end stuff (similar to the SD all in one items) but they also sold some very nice, well built items as can be seen by how many of those items are still out there and functioning.......

The RS stuff might still work. Doesn't mean they were ever good, which I guess depends on your definition of good. Lets say they were never going to challenge companies like Superphon, Creek, or PSE.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
If "the industry" were watching AK, the main trends they would come away with are:

People want to hook up ten sources to their receiver. Separates are evil.
People want stuff they can daisy chain four or five amplifiers together.
People want a $200 tube amp that will mate perfectly with their $75 tube preamp.
People want all their gear to be stocked at Goodwills and Salvation Army thrift stores, and new gear cannot cost more than $150. Vintage must all be under $50.
People want only the good stuff - like the stuff made in 1970, except made now - and it has to be priced lower than the same used stuff is now.
People want all their gear to be the most respected gear in town, with little roadside shrines to their beloved brands at every Starbucks, so they can feel validated.
People want any new gear to be priced at 80% off twice a month, so they can start a score thread on how they screwed the man by buying on an 80% off day.
People, outside of the techs with walkers, are liable to electrocute themselves, set fire to their house, and make all kinds of magic smoke disappear, within minutes of hooking up a system.
People believe the last great audiophile recordings made were Steely Dan's "Aja" and Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon."

And, finally, the greatest speakers in the world could easily be drawn from the group of Dynaco A25, Large Advents, Pioneer HPM100, JBL L100, AR3, and EPI 100s. Hands down.
Add - there's a market to be tapped for Barnum Tech like speaker cables with articulation poles.
 
The RS stuff might still work. Doesn't mean they were ever good, which I guess depends on your definition of good. Lets say they were never going to challenge companies like Superphon, Creek, or PSE.

Regards
Mister Pig

LOL nice straw man argument. It would be pretty difficult to compete with companies not yet in business in the 70s and besides, nobody ever claimed that RS competed in the high end market.
 
LOL nice straw man argument. It would be pretty difficult to compete with companies not yet in business in the 70s and besides, nobody ever claimed that RS competed in the high end market.

Creek Audio was established in 1982, their first offering was 99 GBP. B&K in 1981, their first amp being $299. PSE established in late 1970's in Minnesota.

Realistic didn't sell gear in the 1980's?

Regards
Mister Pig
 
And RS sold one of the best tube amps on the market, if you knew their history.
Lafayette had a nice one (the KT-550) -- unaware of any noteworthy "RS" branded ("Realist"/"Realistic") amplifiers -- unless you're not referring to Radio Shack. Radio Shack did sell lots of nice ones -- but they had brand names like McIntosh, HH Scott, Marantz, Sherwood, Dynaco (etc.). www.radioshackcatalogs.com


Scan_Pic0024 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
 
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