$1500 to spend a Amp/Reciever, What would you get for Classic Rock ?

[PhilInAudio]

JoeE SP9...you are operating with very nice high-end equipment! I know nothing about Magnepan. You've clearly invested a lot of money in them. What makes them so special? How did you find them...a friend...a stereo shop? What kind of music do you play on them?

 

[PhilInAudio]

Braincramp...wow, nice size room! How did you find out that your speaker placement was so important? How long did it take you to find the sweet-spot?

 

[sensei91]

This thread is an interesting read.
Back in 1987 I was in a similar position that the Original Poster is in. My Yamaha CR620 , was just not keeping up with my JBL L100's after moving from an apartment to a house. My then racquetball partner, who happened to be a Neurosurgeon , suggested I look into purchasing some pre owned Macintosh. So I went out and purchased a C 28 preamp and MC 2105 amp. Total cost was $ 1500 at that time. Previous to the Yamaha , I had an Onkyo receiver.
I could not believe the sound when I hooked up the Mac equipment to the JBLs. This was the eye opener for me regarding a step up , and a new awareness regarding how good solid equipment can make a tremendous difference.

Well those L100's could not take the power that I put into them, so they need to be replaced. I waited a few years, and replaced them with a pair of Definitive Technologies BP10. I added a California audio labs CD player , and the Yamaha and JBL's became my office system.

in the year 2000 , I had to replace the MC 2105, and I decided to buy a new Macintosh MC 162 amp. The C 28 pre amp needed one repair ( volume control in 2003 ) , but now has a low frequency hum and needs service. I temporarily replaced it with a Marantz HT receiver, using just the preamp to the MC 162. I think it is an SR7000 or similar. Purchased used for $ 75.00. And wow, I think it has better sound than the C 28, so that is sitting on my shelf. The FM tuner is outstanding , and I am blessed to have a solid NPR station nearby for Jazz and Classical listening. I have only added a Polk 10 " powered sub to the system.

Last night, the house was empty, beautiful weather with the windows open, I decided to listen to a disk I have not heard in a long time. It is a single bass guitar played by Dean Peer, and the CD is called Ucross. I turned it up to around 30 watts listening level , and I remembered why I had purchased the CD. Deep rich bass, the individual notes seemed to come to life with the air moving in a slight breeze from the outside. The only light in the room being those blue meters.

There is no way that My old Yamaha and L100's are anything near the listening experience of what I graduated to. So my advice is to consider moving out of what I call " consumer audio " , which I still have in other systems around my home and outdoors , and try an move upscale if possible. I still have Yamaha receivers, Onkyo , the L100's etc, and for their purpose and what I use them for, they are excellent. But when I have the time and really want to experience music at its finest, I am glad I took the good Doctor's advice 30 years ago.

 

[sanford12]

Going old get a Luxman. I haven't had a better mid-fi SS amp. I'll say again. You got 1500 bucks and that will get you an excellent new amp. Heck a grand will get you a great new amp. Now my experience with bose. They sounded dark and muddy to me. One of my friends had some and he loved them. I was listening to Pioneer CS-700's at the time and they were no sonic wonders but they were better than the bose. There are much better speakers without all the fussiness of placement, a year to get them right ugh. I would have lost patience long before then. That is way to fussy. Wouldn't let a speaker waste my time like that. When your doing there is more gear than music. Took me about an hour to get the ML LX-16's set and then it was sweet music.

 

[braincramp]

Braincramp...wow, nice size room! How did you find out that your speaker placement was so important? How long did it take you to find the sweet-spot?

Thanks, It's my office and since I'm in sales I spend a lot of time there. I have to thank this place for getting me to think about the placement. They always sounded decent but they never sounded as good as they did when I went and listened to them at the guys house who had them previously. About 3 weeks ago I moved them away from the back wall about 6" and it hit me. It was really kind of a weird experience. I got them about a year ago but I really didn't mess around with them much because I didn't really think it was that important.

 

[braincramp]

Going old get a Luxman. I haven't had a better SS amp. I'll say again. You got 1500 bucks and that will get you an excellent new amp. Heck a grand will get you a great new amp. Now my experience with bose. They sounded dark and muddy to me. My friend loved them. I was listening to Pioneer CS-700's at the time and they were no sonic wonders but they were better than the bose. There are much better speakers without all the fussiness of placement, a year to get them right ugh. I would have lost patience long before then. That is way to fussy. Wouldn't let a speaker waste my time like that. When your doing that it's more gear than music. Took me about an hour to get the ML LX-16's set and then it was sweet music.

It wouldn't have taken that long if I would have really worked at it a little bit.

 

[VintageVibe]

Regarding upgrades, if I can add my $.02, my college years '72-'76 were all about the 901's, JBL's and Vega's. If you wanted "blow your face off" volume this is where you went. No one cared about music quality in the dorms or off campus in NH. There wasn't anyone around anyway. Just crank it up. Day or night!

These days I'm all about sound quality. First pressing, best pressings, whatever pressings. It all starts there. I make my speakers disappear.

For power, the vintage Pioneer SX-1010. 100wpc. It's a beast. Turntable is also a TD-165, mildly modded with a 1/2 birch bottom and feet from Vinylnirvana. The hardwood mod alone ($6) will tighten up your sound dramatically. Cart is the Denon 103r LOMC. It loves the heavier 16.5 gr. TP-11 arm. Preamp is the Music Hall PA 1.2. A drop light for the 103r (100 ohms vs 140 ohms), but not noticeable. Anticable reference 2.1 cables into Vandersteen 1C's (with sand in the stands). My listening space (11 x 9) is way too small for the bigger Vandy's, but you could look at the 2's for a more extended freq response and better low end. The Vandy's need space away from the wall, and you have it.

For what it is, this rig delivers clear, neutral and non fatiguing music. Loud or soft. Excellent soundstage that is deep as well as wide. I listen to everything from Boston, Hendrix, SRV, Cream, Zep, etc., on the loud side, to Miles, Evans, Manne, Steely Dan, classical etc., on the softer side.

My buddy runs a VPI Traveler/ Ortofon 2M Black / some fancy pre / Rouge Sphinx into Vandersteen Treo's. He can't get over how good mine sounds. I can't get over how bad his vinyl sounds! Very thin with no bass. Told him I think it's the Ortofon. Boy, does he get pissed, lol. Hope he's reading this.

VV

 

[91r100gs]

It is NOT about the 901s at all. It is about your manic tone of your posts then your passive/aggressive rants. I think 99% of what you post is BS.

In addition to the Know-It-Attitude

 

[braincramp]

In addition to the Know-It-Attitude

I'll never have to worry about that. The amount of knowledge in this place makes me feel dumber than a bag of hammers most times.

 

[PhilInAudio]

OK...guys...look...let's end this!!! If their is something I said or the way I said it that offended you...I apologize. I thought I was sharing content and perspective so others can understand what I was saying and why I was saying it. Clearly I was wrong in my objective and approach. I meant no harm or malice. If I post anything going forward, I will certainly temper my comments and opinions. So, are we good?

 

[braincramp]

OK...guys...look...let's end this!!! If their is something I said or the way I said it...I apologize. I thought I was sharing content and perspective so others can understand what I was saying and why I was saying it. Clearly I was wrong in my objective and approach. I meant no harm or malice. If I post anything going forward, I will certainly temper my comments and opinions. So, are we good?

It's all good with me. It takes more than words to offend me.

 

[MikeT.]

In an attempt to actually answer the OP's question, the CR-1020 is very nice but at 70 wpc there is still a whole lot of room for power upgrades.

You could get a very nice 2-channel power amp for $500-$700 around here and still make use of the 1020s outstanding preamp and tuner section. Those 901s can handle a whole lot of power and I bet would sound even better with 150+ watts going through them - or you could use the remainder of your budget and buy some big fun JBL's or *gasp* - old Cerwin Vegas.

Agree with Roboturner91. If the Yamaha can be used as the preamp front end, a horse of a power amp would be just what the doctor ordered.
Restored Thresholds are available consistently and will rock the 901's like crazy. Big restored McIntosh might do the trick too.

 

[deltalight]

<The receiver was a Vector Research VR-7000. Do you remember any of these?>

Yes, I do remember when Vector Research models were introduced. They have a "Ham radio" gray look to them like Yaesu transceivers. I looked at the VR-9000 circuit architecture and that model has 2 RF amps in the synthesized FM Front end, which is good. Don't know about the little-brother VR-7000. The VR-9000 Amp section is under-powered with just two 10,000uF 63v output caps. Worse yet, like the Pioneer SA-9500 II, the VR-9000 uses 2SD738/2SB702 "Batwing" unobtanium outputs, so if your VR-9000 channel is blown, you need to rebuild it with TO3P parts like I did with the SA-9500 II. Most people just tossed it. It appears VR's forte was a digital synthesized tuner and for the time, it was all the rage. Since they introduced it post 1980, it had a remote like many mfgs started to incorporate. There is a mfg. budget and when they added digital tuners and remotes, they then scaled-back on the rest. Vector Research didn't last long. I know a local guy who has a broken VR receiver in his garage and looking at it brought back memories....

 

[PhilInAudio]

If I remember correctly, the VR-7000 sold for $499, the VRX-9000 sold for $899 and the top unit VRX-9500 sold for $999.

The great thing was, back then when we sold them, they were very rarely returned! They were all surprisingly reliable and very good sounding!

We could not keep the VR-7000 in stock. People just loved them and they sold fast!!!

The most common speaker sold with them were the EPI-1200, the Ohm L, the Ohm L2 and the AR???something.

I just found a cool link that has the history of Vector Research. Check it out: http://audiotools.com/dead_d.html

Amazing history huh??? Who knew that their receivers were built by NAD and Rotel??? Maybe that's why they were so good!

 

[braincramp]

Agree with Roboturner91. If the Yamaha can be used as the preamp front end, a horse of a power amp would be just what the doctor ordered.
Restored Thresholds are available consistently and will rock the 901's like crazy. Big restored McIntosh might do the trick too.

So if I use the Yamaha as a pre-amp and get a 150-200 watt power amp, all my components still plug into my Yamaha and the speakers are wired to the power amp right?

 

[PhilInAudio]

Yes!

 

[braincramp]

I've read somewhere here that my Yamaha doesn't make a good pre-amp but they didn't say why.

 

[MannyE]

Did anyone ask if you have the Bose EQ for the 901? It has to be placed in the tape monitor circuit. Have you tried fooling around with the placement of the 901? They are supposed to be better when placed in the corners.

Here's an interesting and extensive write-up on the 901. http://www.tonepublications.com/review/we-review-the-bose-901/

I used to be like you, eager to replace with "better" stuff. But I have found that it's more fun and interesting to learn everything I can about the equipment I have in-house and make sure the setup is as close to optimum as possible and THEN I can start evaluating if I need to make changes.

Also look into optimizing your room against standing waves etc. If you really want to get the most out of your $1500, look at the room before you get new equipment.

 

[braincramp]

Did anyone ask if you have the Bose EQ for the 901? It has to be placed in the tape monitor circuit. Have you tried fooling around with the placement of the 901? They are supposed to be better when placed in the corners.

Here's an interesting and extensive write-up on the 901. http://www.tonepublications.com/review/we-review-the-bose-901/

I used to be like you, eager to replace with "better" stuff. But I have found that it's more fun and interesting to learn everything I can about the equipment I have in-house and make sure the setup is as close to optimum as possible and THEN I can start evaluating if I need to make changes.

Also look into optimizing your room against standing waves etc. If you really want to get the most out of your $1500, look at the room before you get new equipment.

Yes, my 901's are the old series II from the 70's with the original EQ. I talked about how important placement is in some of my older posts.

 

[MannyE]

Here's an interesting quote from someone who actually owned them in an old thread:

I bought mine in the late 1980's (still own them) as replacements for the Cerwin-Vega D-9's which I'd shredded with a pair of bridged Adcom GFA-555's. I hammered those 901's mercilessly for three years, often at a volume just below clipping (that's 600w each with 3db of headroom, mind). I played them so loud indoors that it was difficult to talk outside on the deck. I drove an entire bachelor party of drunk Vermont woodchucks outdoors from a large firehouse hall.

They never skipped a beat. As far as I'm concerned, you could plug them directly into a wall socket without blowing them up. Who cares what they sound like in a limp-wristed "audiophile's" postage-stamp living room? You don't drive a Peterbuilt in an autocross, and you don't play Bose 901's at low volumes.

It came from this thread: https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37785

Which you might find a good read, and perhaps those amps mentioned could be good?