You guys are scaring me

[Audiotfoot]

with all the talk of clipping and destroying speakers. Background: My Denon died and was replaced with a Yamaha R-S700. A nice unit with some attractive elements and 100 watts per channel that can provide 70 -80dB at the listening seat - my normal listening level when really concentrating on music.

The Denon, 120 watts per channel, did that at about the eight o'clock spot on its volume knob. That's about 25% of available power.

The Yamaha has no eight o'clock spot. I has, instead, a digital readout of -89.5 dB to +16.5 dB. To get volume equivalent to the Denon it has to be cranked up to -20 to -10 dB, roughly 65% to 75% total power.

So - are my calculations screwy? And if they are correct, is there a defined point at which clipping may set in? And finally, am I just being paranoid?

 

[avionic]

is there a defined point at which clipping may set in

Yes. When the demand for available power has reached its limit. It all depends on the power available from the power supply.

 

[avionic]

Yamaha M-80 amplifiers are advertised at 250 wpc. They run out of power supply at close to 297 wpc (@ 1000 hz into and 8Ω load)

 

[audiotemp]

So - are my calculations screwy? And if they are correct, is there a defined point at which clipping may set in? And finally, am I just being paranoid?

Yes. No. Maybe.

 

[avionic]

No..Yes..Maybe...You will definitely be able to hear clipping. More than likely with the Yamaha amplifier. Clipping will be detected and the protect circuit triggered ..If the protect circuit triggers while the volume is cranked up. Then just use common sense a turn down the volume. It is not rocket science. Key : Common sense..

 

[musichal]

How do you happen to know that eight o'clock on the old amp equaled 25% of its power. Answer is, I strongly suspect, that you don't. Too many factors in play, the output level of the source, and the recording, too, for starters. The sensitivity of speakers, and their impedance curves, for more starters. Power output involves more than simply a volume position, as you can see - a component's interaction with other gear, and the playback level of specific recordings are involved - I remember James Gang Rides Again on vinyl had "Made Loud to be Played Loud" printed on the label, and a recording of Strauss's Also Spoke Zarathustra I could barely hear.

Neither can you deduce the power output % of your new amp based on gain setting, for the same reasons.

So, your math may be screwy. Don't be paranoid; trust your ears. Turn it down when it sounds bad regardless of where the volume is set.

 

[avionic]

If I run my yamaha's at more than 5 watts. It's to frick'n loud..

 

[datafone]

Normally you will hear a brake up in the higher frequencies when the amp clips, if It's one of the many that clip hard when they do.

 

[ev13wt]

What speakers? Sensitivity?

 

[djwhy60]

When the front covers blow off your speakers....just the right amount of power!

 

[whoaru99]

Yeah, it's definitely gloom and doom around here about clipping and speaker damage. Fortunately, the situation of actually damaging the speaker is far less frequent than the prophesy thereof. This is not to say clipping is good, it isn't, at least not in a reproduction system. Creation is a different matter, e.g. guitar amp.

I think many believe even the slightest amount of clipping is sure death for a driver. It is not. I also think many believe hearing clipping is as obvious as like seeing light bulb come on when you flip the switch. Not the case. If you clearly hear the effect of clipping, the onset of clipping started way before that point.

 

[BigElCat]

When I was young and foolish, I would boost the gain on my 25 watt rms JVC receiver by looping the signal through a cassette deck.

I would have a tape in, and use the record/pause mode. I would crank the record gain until it was off the scale, and listen via the tape monitor.

This was with the volume knob all the way up. I'm sure it was clipping all the time, but I don't recall ever blowing a speaker. The only time I've ever blown a speaker; I accidently dropped a tone arm with the volume knob cranked way up.

 

[woodj]

Yes. When the demand for available power has reached its limit. It all depends on the power available from the power supply.

Precisely.

 

[woodj]

Don't be paranoid; trust your ears. Turn it down when it sounds bad regardless of where the volume is set.

Yes,yes,yes.

 

[gadget73]

Volume controls don't scale in the way you expect them to. The 1/2 travel point is not 50% power, in reality its closer to 10% power. Of course that varies based on how hot the source is, how much gain the amp has, and how they rigged the volume circuit. Some are touchier than others. It doesn't actually mean a whole lot. If you don't hear distortion, its probably not clipping and you'll be fine. When it clips you will know it.

 

[bimasta]

My son blew the woofer on a Thiel at a party, fried the voice-coil. It was clipping all the time and it was very audible — but with House music, who can tell?

 

[musichal]

Yeah, it's definitely gloom and doom around here about clipping and speaker damage. Fortunately, the situation of actually damaging the speaker is far less frequent than the prophesy thereof. This is not to say clipping is good, it isn't, at least not in a reproduction system. Creation is a different matter, e.g. guitar amp.

I think many believe even the slightest amount of clipping is sure death for a driver. It is not. I also think many believe hearing clipping is as obvious as like seeing light bulb come on when you flip the switch. Not the case. If you clearly hear the effect of clipping, the onset of clipping started way before that point.

Yeah, I had a couple amps that would flash an LED - or some type lamp - at 10% distortion. After a year of owning the amps, I started wondering whether those lights worked - I'd never seen them. So I cranked them slowly up, saw a flash and turned down quickly. The amps were 200w Adcoms, and I never saw them flash again. Too freakin' loud. Was afraid I would damage the speakers before the flash. I just had to see that flash. Smart, very smart. NOT

Not the Khorns, some Paradigms.

 

[whoaru99]

Yeah, having an amp with clipping indicators is pretty telling. Many of my amps that have them are fairly powerful so demonstrations that occasional clipping goes unnoticed isn't all that practical.

However, I also have a couple amps that are 50-60wpc that have clipping indicators. One can make those flicker pretty easily for such demonstrations.

 

[IPADave]

Don't be paranoid; trust your ears. Turn it down when it sounds bad regardless of where the volume is set.

This is solid advice. Enjoy your Yamaha R-S700.

-Dave

 

[woodj]

Volume controls don't scale in the way you expect them to. The 1/2 travel point is not 50% power, in reality its closer to 10% power. Of course that varies based on how hot the source is, how much gain the amp has, and how they rigged the volume circuit. Some are touchier than others. It doesn't actually mean a whole lot. If you don't hear distortion, its probably not clipping and you'll be fine. When it clips you will know it.

Well said.