Amp and dac for Pioneer SP-BS22-LR

[Paul_Olli]

Hello,
it is gonna be my first proper audio setup and I need some advide.
Long story short, I've already researched quite a lot and have some ideas.

SPEAKERS: Pioneer Sp-BS22-LR(these are settled for sure)
DAC: SMSL M6 (wanted Audioengine d1, but I need to unplug headphones to use speakers)
AMP: SMSL SA-98E(might these be too much? I sometimes enjoy listening to loud Pink Floyd)

I feel like dac and amp are too much for these speakers, but I don't want to get a lower watt amp than my speakers(man, I am giving up speaker's potential) nor have dac that is equivalent to my computer dac(because that way I see no point buying it). I am also using ATH-M50x.
I know I need to make sacrifices in some ways, because I read that the rule of thumb is to have the electronics that drive the speakers be half the cost of speakers.
As of sound quality I value clean audio the most.
What are Your suggestions?

Best regards,
Paul

 

[darkblue94]

Hello,
it is gonna be my first proper audio setup and I need some advide.
Long story short, I've already researched quite a lot and have some ideas.

SPEAKERS: Pioneer Sp-BS22-LR(these are settled for sure)
DAC: SMSL M6 (wanted Audioengine d1, but I need to unplug headphones to use speakers)
AMP: SMSL SA-98E(might these be too much? I sometimes enjoy listening to loud Pink Floyd)

I feel like dac and amp are too much for these speakers, but I don't want to get a lower watt amp than my speakers(man, I am giving up speaker's potential) nor have dac that is equivalent to my computer dac(because that way I see no point buying it). I am also using ATH-M50x.
I know I need to make sacrifices in some ways, because I read that the rule of thumb is to have the electronics that drive the speakers be half the cost of speakers.
As of sound quality I value clean audio the most.
What are Your suggestions?

Best regards,
Paul

Yeah, half the cost of the speakers, except when you're dealing with dirt cheap entry level speakers as you are. You can feel safe to spend some more on the electronics. I'd also suggest that you consider adding a subwoofer especially since you want to play Pink Floyd loudly.
Welcome to AudioKarma.

 

[cratz2]

The first time heard the SPBS21s was with the Dayton DT-120. I think that is the model.

Pretty nice sounding. Fantastic, considering the price.

In my experience, the Pioneers like a bit of power so I'd 'round up' in terms of an amp.

 

[bluemooze]

Always 'over buy' your new components - that way the overall quality of your system will continually improve.

...I know I need to make sacrifices in some ways, because I read that the rule of thumb is to have the electronics that drive the speakers be half the cost of speakers...

That is so wrong I don't even know where to begin. No such rule of thumb exists. Buy the best sounding equipment you can afford. Good luck.

 

[Paul_Olli]

I'd also suggest that you consider adding a subwoofer especially since you want to play Pink Floyd loudly.

The amp does not have sub out, but I've heard there should be another way to add sub.

Pretty nice sounding. Fantastic, considering the price.

Do you mean the amp or the speakers?

Are there any well-known value based amps/dacs that would fit better for the Pioneers?

 

[cratz2]

Do you mean the amp or the speakers?

I can't separate the amp sound from the speaker sound. For $200, it sounded amazing.

I'm a believer in getting the speakers you prefer and driving them at least adequately. In my opinion, the Pioneers don't sound their best with 10 or 15 watts pushing them. I'm not a 'more power is ALWAYS a good thing' kinda guy but the Pioneers need some power in my opinion. I'd go for 50 watts or even 100 watts if going with a Class D or T amp, if the budget allows.

 

[cratz2]

The amp does not have sub out, but I've heard there should be another way to add sub.

If the sub has speaker level inputs, you can run speaker cables from the amp to the sub then another set of speaker cables from the sub to the speakers.

This will filter out the lowest frequencies from the main speakers.

That's not my preferred way of doing it, but that's the intention and works for many folks.

 

[Paul_Olli]

I'd go for 50 watts or even 100 watts if going with a Class D or T amp, if the budget allows.

SMSL SA-98E is rated at 2x160 watts, which is higher than average D amps. The reason I aimed so high right from the start is because I read that digital amps get distorted easily when pushed even a little. So I searched for a highest wattage reasonably priced amp to raise the max volume bar.
But still, I am unsure about the sound quality of the amp.

 

[opnly bafld]

SMSL SA-98E is rated at 2x160 watts, which is higher than average D amps.
But still, I am unsure about the sound quality of the amp.

Power is rated at 12% - 10% THD
80w into 6 ohms (Pioneers rated imp); should be okay on power and sound.

 

[cratz2]

I wouldn't worry about the sound quality too much. It will get you going for sure and will get you enjoying the Pioneers.

 

[prighello]

I bought my first set up when I was about your age. Anyway, you might want to check out the onkyo a 9010 which has a built in dac or one of the their two channel receivers tx8220. You should be able to score one in your price range.

 

[bigx5murf]

I'm assuming this is for a PC based setup? If so, I recommend the following DAC, reason being not only does it measured better than much pricier options, but you gain a bunch of recording features which are very useful. Plus it has a headphone output for your headphones.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/budget-dac-review-behringer-umc204hd.1658/

I've had a small amp based on that chip. It should be fine, don't worry about the power, more power that needed is fine. Also, I'm betting that amp doesn't come with a 36v power supply, so you wouldn't get the full rated power anyway. These kind of amps distort badly near their rated power, so you'd like to stay well below it anyway.

 

[bluemooze]

I'm assuming this is for a PC based setup? If so, I recommend the following DAC, reason being not only does it measured better than much pricier options, but you gain a bunch of recording features which are very useful. Plus it has a headphone output for your headphones...

Yeah, but how does it sound?

 

[Paul_Olli]

Power is rated at 12% - 10% THD

I know it doesn't seem good, but I can not find a better one. Recommendations are welcome.

Anyway, you might want to check out the onkyo a 9010 which has a built in dac or one of the their two channel receivers tx8220. You should be able to score one in your price range

Yeah, I could go the easy way, but there are two things against a complex receiver.
a) Upgrading it means to change out the entire receiver. With separate components I can change them out bit by bit.
b) I am unsure about the quality of the DAC inside of them and their wattage is rated quite low.

I'm assuming this is for a PC based setup? If so, I recommend the following DAC, reason being not only does it measured better than much pricier options, but you gain a bunch of recording features which are very useful. Plus it has a headphone output for your headphones.

Yeah, for PC. I got to be honest, this DAC looks really tempting, though it has more bells and whistles than I need. The only con seems to be the that the only connection is USB. But I sure can live with that. I have no knowledge of half the ports that it has, I'll post pic below, maybe someone generous has time to explain a word or two..
I also checked out the Behringer UMC404HD. It is quite similarly priced, but has better reviews at amazon. Besides the extra bells and whistles, which I am not going to use anyway, is it's sound quality better? That's all I care for. It also has DC in, which in my eyes, makes it more independent from computer.(and maybe can be used elsewhere when needed?)

Here are the pics:

https://imgur.com/a/wwhPr

EDIT: How is the changing between headphones and speakers gonna look? I hope I don't have to unplug the headphones for that.(like with the audioengine d1)

 

[JoeESP9]

Hey Paul, please remember that many posters here are thoroughly stuck in the receiver "uber alles" camp. However, there are some here who prefer the flexibility that separates allow. IMO you've made some excellent choices that easily allow for any sort of upgrade you might wish to pursue in the future.

 

[bigx5murf]

Power is rated at 12% - 10% THD
80w into 6 ohms (Pioneers rated imp); should be okay on power and sound.

That's normal for these small class d amps. Realistically you should only expect 80% of rated power at 1% distortion. Even less since it's likely the amp will not be bundled with a power supply that supplies the optimal voltage and current.

Yeah, for PC. I got to be honest, this DAC looks really tempting, though it has more bells and whistles than I need. The only con seems to be the that the only connection is USB. But I sure can live with that. I have no knowledge of half the ports that it has, I'll post pic below, maybe someone generous has time to explain a word or two..
I also checked out the Behringer UMC404HD. It is quite similarly priced, but has better reviews at amazon. Besides the extra bells and whistles, which I am not going to use anyway, is it's sound quality better? That's all I care for. It also has DC in, which in my eyes, makes it more independent from computer.(and maybe can be used elsewhere when needed?)

Here are the pics:

https://imgur.com/a/wwhPr

EDIT: How is the changing between headphones and speakers gonna look? I hope I don't have to unplug the headphones for that.(like with the audioengine d1)

The UMC line are probably all the same thing just with different number of inputs and outputs. Using an external power supply could potentially lower the noise floor. But as you can see from the measurements, the noise floor is already lower than the IFi unit it was compared against. The "sound quality" is going to be as good or bad as your source, it's going to be more accurate than humanly perceivable. If any quality DAC sounds significantly different from it, it's purposely messing up the signal (NuForce has done this in the past). The unit has a headphone jack, and an independent volume knob just for that headphone jack. The way I have it setup, I output the unit into my speaker amp, and directly use plug headphones into the UMC. Just turn the volume knob on the headphone jack all the way down when you're not using it. The speaker amp will have it's own power switch. No plugging and unplugging necessary. More importantly seperate volume controls for speakers and headphones, so you don't accidentally switch, and blow up the more efficient one. Keep in mine the built in headphone jack will only power more efficient headphone adequately. I actually have another external headphone amp hooked up for my hard to drive headphones.

 

[prighello]

Honestly, if this is for a PC near-field set up why not just go with active speakers and an audio interface ala JBL LSR's and Focusrite Solo. That seems to be the popular solution for those running headphone and speakers on a desktop.

Anyway, I've been on the gear merry-go-round. Do I run separates? Yes. For a budget system do separates make sense? No, IMHO. Also, don't get too fixated on wattage. In most all situations most folks only use a few watts. You can calculate how many watts you need based upon speaker sensitivity and listening distance.

To make it simple:

https://www.crownaudio.com/en/tools/calculators

Here is a good article on the subject.

https://www.crownaudio.com/how-much-amplifier-power

Good luck. Can't wait to hear about what you went with.

 

[Paul_Olli]

The UMC line are probably all the same thing just with different number of inputs and outputs.

Good, that's what I was hoping.

The "sound quality" is going to be as good or bad as your source,

If you mean the basic audio files as the source, then these should not hold back. I have a collection of CDs and 24/192 music files of my favourite artists.

Keep in mine the built in headphone jack will only power more efficient headphone adequately.

ATH m50s should be pretty easy to drive.

Honestly, if this is for a PC near-field set up why not just go with active speakers and an audio interface ala JBL LSR's and Focusrite Solo.

I use computer only as the source of digital signal and I often like to blast the room with music. But as I've understood, in case of speaker's power/capability to fill the room, it does not matter whether the speakers are passive or active. Or is it not so?

Also, don't get too fixated on wattage. In most all situations most folks only use a few watts.

I've heard people say that and I actually understand it too. Then again, it feels like a waste of speaker's resources to get a 50w amp for 80w speaker, especially when Pioneers are known to go well with more power.

Good luck. Can't wait to hear about what you went with.

I am still leaning towards complete separate set-up. As the suitable amp selection is quite thin, your recommendation seems quite reasonable and I'll try to dig through active speaker options. After all, amps inside of them are made specially for them and are sure to work.
As for dac, I feel like I need to keep it in my setup either way. Partly because of decent headphone amp, partly because I can't stand any hisses or disturbances in sound, I want it to be clean.

EDIT: that article is very interesting to read.

I am so thankful my questions have gained so much attention.

 

[darkblue94]

it feels like a waste of speaker's resources to get a 50w amp for 80w speaker, especially when Pioneers are known to go well with more power.

That's not how things work with regards to speaker power ratings.

 

[JoeESP9]

Just because a speaker is rated for 80 Watts doesn't mean it will work best on an 80 Watt amplifier. Also, a speakers wattage rating has very little to do with how much or little amplifier power you can use. You can have too much or too little power. If you have to much, at very loud levels the speaker will sound strained. If you have to little power, at high levels the amplifier will sound strained. The solution is easy. If you hear any sign of strain turn it down.