Vintage speakers that have a lot of bass?

Never knew that... Lol. Shows how much I know. Although I do like big floor speakers... Now my wife on the other hand.. lol

For the longest time I was "anti-sub" in vintage systems.... then I was given two little 8" Daytons (PE) and I added them to a current set up, under a table about 5' from listener and about 8' in front of the mains. I played with the gain, and I was amazed at the addition. Try it, you'll like it.
 
Just curious, did you have the matching dedicated EQ for your Interface D's? I don't see one in your photo.
Yes i did.Its more the down fireing woofer that i didnt like with the Interface d's.I also own a smaller set of speakers with Bass equalizer the KLH Model 2 and these ran with the 'd' no problem in a much smaller package as the woofers faced foreward not down
 
So I would buy a modern sub and just use the B speaker terminal's ?

You should be able to find an amplified sub on Craigslist. You can parallel it with your current speakers, and/or use your left, B speaker terminal (this is most likely parallel also)
 
Electro-Voice Interface D with matching EQ. I currently own three of the other speakers that have been mentioned in this thread, but none of them come close to producing the bass that the Interface Ds do.

Of all the speakers I have owned over the years, the Interface Ds come closest to recreating a live performance. Kick drums sound, and feel, like kick drums.

In addition to playing louder and deeper than any other speakers I have ever owned (including subwoofers), the Interface Ds are also the best sounding speakers I have ever owned at any listening level. These speakers were way ahead of their time when they came out in the late 1970s and are the one pair of speakers I will always regret selling. Nothing I've owned before, or since, have played as loud, played as low, or sounded as good.

At 97dB efficiency, you don't need a ton of power to drive them. They are favorites of tube lovers and sounded great when I was driving them with a little Sherwood S-7100A (early 1970s solid state receiver rated at 14 WPC), but if you have more power, they can certainly take advantage of it.

They are capable of handling up to 500W, but if you have anything close to that, be careful, be VERY careful:

EV_Interface_D_Warning.jpg


They weren't kidding! You've been warned...
Loud isn't as good as quality sound reproduction. If it dosent sound good at low levels buy a cheap set of party speakers and crack the windows in your house. Probably get a good window breaking set of speakers for under 100.00. Nuf said.
 
Loud isn't as good as quality sound reproduction. If it dosent sound good at low levels buy a cheap set of party speakers and crack the windows in your house. Probably get a good window breaking set of speakers for under 100.00. Nuf said.

Which is why I specifically said:

"In addition to playing louder and deeper than any other speakers I have ever owned (including subwoofers), the Interface Ds are also the best sounding speakers I have ever owned at any listening level."

They aren't just party speakers, by any stretch of the imagination. I sold them to an older gentleman who lives in an apartment, listens to jazz and drives them with a small tube amp. He did not buy them because he wanted to break any windows (or piss off his neighbors), he bought them because of how good they sound at low listening levels.
 
Problem with driver 12" or larger is the weight of the cone and the flex of the cone. The weight causes the driver to be slower so a larger magnet or VC or both need to be used. The flex of the cone causes tubbiness in the bass area. That is a case of diminishing returns.

That is why, as BH said, use subs if you want good deep bass.


That is why some speaker manufactures use multiple smaller drivers to help with eliminating the problems that a larger driver can present, and adding servo's to measure and compare the driver movement to the source input.

As in the case of the Infinity system, plenty of surface area yet quick and rigid.

I find most of the subs I have used sound less natural than my Infinity's, and most subs don't go as low as the Infinity's. Even the QLS-1's that Tube posted sound better to my ears than using a sub. And even though they use a single 12" driver it is a dual voice coil one.


The drivers in the RS-1b's are 8 inch with rubber surrounds, servo controlled two towers with 6 drivers in each tower, more than enough bass for most people without the need for subs.


anlage-vli.jpg
 
That is why some speaker manufactures use multiple smaller drivers to help with eliminating the problems that a larger driver can present, and adding servo's to measure and compare the driver movement to the source input.

As in the case of the Infinity system, plenty of surface area yet quick and rigid.

I find most of the subs I have used sound less natural than my Infinity's, and most subs don't go as low as the Infinity's. Even the QLS-1's that Tube posted sound better to my ears than using a sub. And even though they use a single 12" driver it is a dual voice coil one.


The drivers in the RS-1b's are 8 inch with rubber surrounds, servo controlled two towers with 6 drivers in each tower, more than enough bass for most people without the need for subs.


View attachment 1051273

Funny, Paul McGowan just did a podcast about subwoofers, and his final conclusions (which I agree with 99%) were that every speaker benefits from a properly set up subwoofer, the first thing I thought of was 'what about the Infinity Reference System like the ones you have in your listening room?" I think it's safe to say, the IRS in all its variations is the one speaker that doesn't benefit from a subwoofer, since two sub towers are built into the design already.
My Rennasaince 90's definitely benefit from a good, fast sub, as stunning as that bass is from the Watkins 10", there just isn't enough, (in my main room 20x15) without augmentation. In one of my bedrooms, 10'x10' they don't need a sub.

ps. Jealous doesn't even begin to approach the lust/desire I have for those speakers in your photo. (and of course, the right room to listen to them in)

OP, I'd just biwire from the single output to both your speakers and the sub. if you don't have pre outs from your receiver/preamp, if you have pre outs, use them and leave the amplification stage out of the sub.
 
I think one could say some speaker systems have subs included in their designs.

I have some of the original Phase Linear Andromeda's and they as part of the system have a bass commode with two down firing 12 inch drives as part of the system. You don't need a sub with them, as the bass is really good with them as well, they are some of my favorite sounding speakers.

And the two drivers have additional loading via weight on the cones for what reason I don't know. I think the way it is built it adds to the rigidity of the cone surface, but you do have an inherit problem in that they over time cause the driver cone to sag over time. I can't tell what effect it has on the sound as I have no idea how they sounded when new. But I can say they have a very lush sound to them in that the bass has a fundamental solidness to the overall soundstage and the music from the panels just envelopes you with a music that seems to just pour out of the air like magic.
 
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I'm still holding onto a pair of Klipsch KG-4s that give a full finger to subs. They're not the sexiest speaker to bring to the discussion, but they are seriously fun to listen to. My old Sherwood S-7100A has no trouble driving them, either!
 
since the OP just wants to know of a vintage speaker that had a lot of good bass then i would have to mention the Speakerlab 7, Super7 and the big Speakerlab K. lot's o'bass with those.:D
 
I guess it comes down to what you listen to... And budget of course... Some of the ones listed are super expensive at least here in Austin.

My Wharfedale W70s have all the bass I could ever want. But I don't listen to rap or anything like that very often. Just don't over power them... They take about 20W at the most.
I got them for around $80 on CL, although the price seems to have skyrocketed lately.

I can't compare them to too much of what I see in the other posts, other than a cross between a vintage altec and a Klipsch LaScala without the 'horniness'... Transparent, musical, but with definite low range presence.

I grew up listening to my dad's Klipsch Belles, and just naturally assumed I'd end up with a subwoofer in any 'audiophile' system I ever had because I was 'of the younger generation' then too...
I have no such need with the Wharfedales.
 
Which is why I specifically said:

"In addition to playing louder and deeper than any other speakers I have ever owned (including subwoofers), the Interface Ds are also the best sounding speakers I have ever owned at any listening level."

They aren't just party speakers, by any stretch of the imagination. I sold them to an older gentleman who lives in an apartment, listens to jazz and drives them with a small tube amp. He did not buy them because he wanted to break any windows (or piss off his neighbors), he bought them because of how good they sound at low listening levels.
Im old school and when people start talking about adding a sub woofer to a good pair of speakers that leaves me to believe they are very young, or just don't get the jest of quality speakers,,,,,,,which do not need a sub woofer.
 
The drivers in the RS-1b's are 8 inch with rubber surrounds, servo controlled two towers with 6 drivers in each tower, more than enough bass for most people without the need for subs.
I've always had a hard time understanding how a small driver with a limited LF can extend that LF simply by using multiples of that same driver in the same system. Logic would suggest you're just amplifying the sound level within that same limited range. And I don't doubt Ken's assessment of how well the RS-1b 8-inch woofers work in his home. But I was curious enough to see what others say about that arrangement:
Anthony H. Cordesman writing about the RS-1B in March 1986 Stereophile"(Vol.9 No.2) said:
No matter what you do, the RS-1B's bass will either be a bit slow and unconvincing, or will have to be set slightly lower than the panel to allow the lower midrange/upper bass output of the midrange EMIMs to dominate the sound.

The RS-1B's bass columns simply do not seem capable of proving both deep bass and good bass articulation or transients in any installation I've heard. This evidently requires bigger enclosures, new drivers, or something more dramatic than crossover changes . . .

. . . The unfortunate truth is that almost all designs that attempt to go much below 40Hz are partial failures, and breaking the 30Hz barrier always seems to result in bass boom, lack of clear frequency discrimination in the low bass, poor transition from bass to midrange, room interaction problems, etc.. . .

. . . This has broad implications for any speaker buyer. If you live in a normal home or apartment, 'you may well find that no system with deep bass will ever fully meet your needs. As a result, you may wish to set the RS-1B crossover so that it does not play the low bass, or consider buying the RS-2Bs instead of the RS-1Bs.
And then I read about the original iMax sound system:
in70mm.com said:
The amps deliver more than 2000 watts per channel. The entire system is more than 15000 watts. The six audio channels are fed to a 4-way JBL speaker array. Every section is equipped with JBL models no: 2404 H (Ultra-High Frequency), 2445 J (Wide Range), 2123 H (High Power Low Frequency), and 2245 H (Medium Efficiency Extended Bass) . . . A special subwoofer with 8 JBL model 2245 H (Medium Efficiency Extended Bass) in one enclosure (a cabinet huge like a caravan) is provided to extend the range of the main channels and reproduce such sounds as rocket launches, thunder, close-flying aircrafts, etc. at loudness which approaches that of the original sound source. Because the lowest pitched sounds that human can hear are also felt, this enhances the realism, making the audience feel they are actually experiencing the event.
Coincidently, the driver complement for the JBL 4345 is similar:
2405, 2425, 2122H, and 2245H 18-inch woofer.

2245H Low Frequency Loudspeaker: 460mm (18 in)
FEATURES:

  • 600 W continuous program power capacity
  • 100 mm (4 in) edgewound copper ribbon voice coil
  • 20 Hz to 2kHz response
  • 95 dB sensitivity, 1 W@ 1 m

Enjoy your listening!
 
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You do know that the RS-1b's were his personal choice for his reference speakers.

He had this to say about them.



The Sound
Pardon my digression. A gentleman should not concern himself with how a thing is done so long as it is done; this is why God created servants. Let me briefly summarize what you will hear when you and your staff have finished the tasks outlined above.

The imaging "floats" one of the most natural soundstages of any speaker at any price over a wide listening area. The result is a large soundstage, life-size in character, but that doesn't widen solo voices or instruments. Depth is excellent and natural, without cave effect or foreshortening.

The resolution of detail and transients rivals that of ribbon speakers and is far superior to that of electrostatics. Dynamics are superb: you can get all the details of a lute or harpsichord, and still hear the full impact of the dead cat being thrown through the bass drum on Däfos. (Cannons, are after all, distinctly middle class.)

Bass power and resolution are not quite up to the IRS III or the WAMM, and I've heard it bettered by the best of the VMPS speakers and some subwoofers. It is, however, excellent and well-integrated. Only the Apogees—with far more complex amplifier arrangements—have surpassed the Reference Standard 1Bs as a fully integrated loudspeaker system. The main problem with the RS-1B is a slight loss of tightness and control, but power, ability to drive a room, and clean discrimination of even the deepest bass notes are excellent.

The midrange is sweet and natural, provided one uses a tube amplifier.

Treble is flat and extended—almost too much so—at the flat setting on the treble control. There are, however, no rough spots or signs of resonance, and the two treble adjustments on each midrange/treble panel allow you to adjust the upper octaves to your heart's content.

There is excellent overall timbre, with the exception of the bass/midrange crossover area. The superb performance in other areas is not matched in this region, and I have the feeling that the EMIMs may not be behaving well as far down as they are asked to reach.

In short, this is definitely a speaker for our Class. One can't always have live musicians, and it is vital that sensitive people not suffer from those tiny boxes on stands that lack full concert-hail dynamics, exclude 30–% of the bass energy present in live performances, sound "small," fall to resolve every musical detail, and involve compromises of economy rather than taste.

My only word of caution is that Sir Gordon-Holt, Bart., feels a properly equipped video room requires three pairs of the IRS-IIIs for the best surround sound effect. He is, however, a mere border baron. More to the point, I would recommend the RS-2B for your smaller guest rooms. A good home may require up to four or five pairs of Infinity's '1Bs, but let discretion be your guide. Excess is tacky—everything should be done in proportion.—Anthony H. Cordesman

Sound Quality

I won't say the Premier Fives transformed the RS-1Bs into a WAMM or into Infinity's own IRS system, but for the first time I began to understand why people have been willing to spend $5295 on this system. These are among the few speakers I've heard in ages that can stand my hair on end!

First of all, the RS-1Bs seem to have no practical upper limit of power-handling capability! They will play at very high levels (like 110dB on peaks!!) without a trace of strain or hardness, assuming of course that you throw enough power at them. (The Premier Fives can throw 200Wpc.) Talk about "digital-ready"!

The RS-1Bs image about as well as any large loudspeakers I have heard. This puts them in the class of the WAMM and the IRS, both of which I consider to represent the state of the art for soundstage presentation and reproduction of depth. The RS-1Bs are the first speakers I've had in my listening room that actually put some of the soundstage (on appropriately-miked recordings) beyond the lateral limits of the speakers—something I did not believe possible except in a room with highly reflective walls (mine are not). They are bettered in imaging specificity by a few tiny satellite speakers and, I suspect, by some curved-panel electrostatics, but only by a small margin.

These are big-sounding speakers, with a gutsy forcefulness that I do not recall encountering in any audiophile system. When a trombone speaks from these, you sit up and pay attention! If you wished to reproduce the voice of God, these speakers could do it. Bowed cellos, synthesizer grunts, and piano bass strings had just the right amount of attack and delineation, and with balance controls properly adjusted, all other musical timbres were reproduced with superb accuracy. No instrument was slighted, and—despite the complexity of the crossover network—the drivers meshed almost seamlessly. (The only discontinuity I could hear, and then only on piano, was the transition from the EMIMs to the cone woofers, at which point the piano strings seemed to lose a little of their "twang.") Massed violins were gorgeously smooth, yet with all the fine-grained gutty edge of the real instruments. Brushed cymbals were open and natural-sounding, and brass and steel were easily distinguished.

The system's low end was particularly impressive. I have never before had a fullrange system in my listening room that would put out a full-level 30Hz signal, but, with their LF response set for Flat, these do it. In the +3dB (at 30Hz) position, the 25–35Hz range was, believe it or not, excessive! Bass quality, too, was excellent, although not quite as controlled as I have heard on (rare) occasions from big transmission-line systems such as the behemoth that Irving Fried used to demonstrate at audio shows. But don't misunderstand me: the RS-1B's bottom is excellent, having immense impact and awesome range. The cannons from Telarc's 1812 CD produced what felt like shock waves!

In fact, impactive sounds are one of the RS-1B's strongest points. The attacks of hard transients—snare drums, rim shots, and xylophone strikes—are razor-sharp, yet the speaker is entirely free from the exaggerated hardness and stridency found in most other speakers with comparable impact capability.

The only areas in which I have heard the RS-1Bs bettered are transparency, realism, and high-end openness and delicacy, all of which are better presented by some fullrange electrostatics, notably the MartinLogan Monolith. For example, the RS-1B's rendition of detail, while awesome, sounded a little heavy-handed, as if sharpness were substituting for delicacy. And while its high end was very smooth, the sound lacked the suavity and musical sweetness of the electrostatics. In the area of realism—the ability to give the impression that real, live instruments are playing—the RS-1Bs did very well, but were not equal to the best I have heard. In comparison, the RS-1B tended to fill in the spaces between bursts of musical sound.

Yet, I continue to be immensely impressed by the sound of the RS-1Bs, and that is what I felt ultimately to be their most outstanding characteristic: they have an "impressive" sound. They are awesomely exciting to listen to, and do an incredible job with bombastic, massive works like Mahler's Second Symphony and the 1812 Overture, and with high-powered recordings like Sheffield's Track and Drum records. But I found them rather less satisfying when reproducing smaller-scaled, more intimate material, such as chamber music and solo guitar. With that kind of music, they still image superbly, making a well-miked guitar sound like a mono recording with stereo ambience (which is exactly right). But that "impressive" quality remains, the music losing some of its gentleness.

There are a few other problems with the RS-1Bs, not the least of which is their setup. These speakers offer so much potential for superb sound quality that all the tweak factors, of little importance in mediocre systems, assume paramount importance. To set up the speakers according to the diagram in the manual, set all controls for Flat and let it go at that, is to throw away half the potential (and half the considerable cost) of the system J. Gordon Holt
 
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Im old school and when people start talking about adding a sub woofer to a good pair of speakers that leaves me to believe they are very young, or just don't get the jest of quality speakers,,,,,,,which do not need a sub woofer.

Where did I make any such recommendation? I specifically said the Interface Ds play lower, louder and sound better than any other speaker system I have ever owned, including those with subwoofers.

For the record, I am 56 years old currently have four systems and zero subwoofers. Please stop making unfounded assumptions about me. You've been dead wrong both times you quoted me.
 
You do know that the RS-1b's were his personal choice for his reference speakers.

He had this to say about them.



The Sound
Pardon my digression. A gentleman should not concern himself with how a thing is done so long as it is done; this is why God created servants. Let me briefly summarize what you will hear when you and your staff have finished the tasks outlined above.

The imaging "floats" one of the most natural soundstages of any speaker at any price over a wide listening area. The result is a large soundstage, life-size in character, but that doesn't widen solo voices or instruments. Depth is excellent and natural, without cave effect or foreshortening.

The resolution of detail and transients rivals that of ribbon speakers and is far superior to that of electrostatics. Dynamics are superb: you can get all the details of a lute or harpsichord, and still hear the full impact of the dead cat being thrown through the bass drum on Däfos. (Cannons, are after all, distinctly middle class.)

Bass power and resolution are not quite up to the IRS III or the WAMM, and I've heard it bettered by the best of the VMPS speakers and some subwoofers. It is, however, excellent and well-integrated. Only the Apogees—with far more complex amplifier arrangements—have surpassed the Reference Standard 1Bs as a fully integrated loudspeaker system. The main problem with the RS-1B is a slight loss of tightness and control, but power, ability to drive a room, and clean discrimination of even the deepest bass notes are excellent.

The midrange is sweet and natural, provided one uses a tube amplifier.

Treble is flat and extended—almost too much so—at the flat setting on the treble control. There are, however, no rough spots or signs of resonance, and the two treble adjustments on each midrange/treble panel allow you to adjust the upper octaves to your heart's content.

There is excellent overall timbre, with the exception of the bass/midrange crossover area. The superb performance in other areas is not matched in this region, and I have the feeling that the EMIMs may not be behaving well as far down as they are asked to reach.

In short, this is definitely a speaker for our Class. One can't always have live musicians, and it is vital that sensitive people not suffer from those tiny boxes on stands that lack full concert-hail dynamics, exclude 30–% of the bass energy present in live performances, sound "small," fall to resolve every musical detail, and involve compromises of economy rather than taste.

My only word of caution is that Sir Gordon-Holt, Bart., feels a properly equipped video room requires three pairs of the IRS-IIIs for the best surround sound effect. He is, however, a mere border baron. More to the point, I would recommend the RS-2B for your smaller guest rooms. A good home may require up to four or five pairs of Infinity's '1Bs, but let discretion be your guide. Excess is tacky—everything should be done in proportion.—Anthony H. Cordesman

Sound Quality

I won't say the Premier Fives transformed the RS-1Bs into a WAMM or into Infinity's own IRS system, but for the first time I began to understand why people have been willing to spend $5295 on this system. These are among the few speakers I've heard in ages that can stand my hair on end!

First of all, the RS-1Bs seem to have no practical upper limit of power-handling capability! They will play at very high levels (like 110dB on peaks!!) without a trace of strain or hardness, assuming of course that you throw enough power at them. (The Premier Fives can throw 200Wpc.) Talk about "digital-ready"!

The RS-1Bs image about as well as any large loudspeakers I have heard. This puts them in the class of the WAMM and the IRS, both of which I consider to represent the state of the art for soundstage presentation and reproduction of depth. The RS-1Bs are the first speakers I've had in my listening room that actually put some of the soundstage (on appropriately-miked recordings) beyond the lateral limits of the speakers—something I did not believe possible except in a room with highly reflective walls (mine are not). They are bettered in imaging specificity by a few tiny satellite speakers and, I suspect, by some curved-panel electrostatics, but only by a small margin.

These are big-sounding speakers, with a gutsy forcefulness that I do not recall encountering in any audiophile system. When a trombone speaks from these, you sit up and pay attention! If you wished to reproduce the voice of God, these speakers could do it. Bowed cellos, synthesizer grunts, and piano bass strings had just the right amount of attack and delineation, and with balance controls properly adjusted, all other musical timbres were reproduced with superb accuracy. No instrument was slighted, and—despite the complexity of the crossover network—the drivers meshed almost seamlessly. (The only discontinuity I could hear, and then only on piano, was the transition from the EMIMs to the cone woofers, at which point the piano strings seemed to lose a little of their "twang.") Massed violins were gorgeously smooth, yet with all the fine-grained gutty edge of the real instruments. Brushed cymbals were open and natural-sounding, and brass and steel were easily distinguished.

The system's low end was particularly impressive. I have never before had a fullrange system in my listening room that would put out a full-level 30Hz signal, but, with their LF response set for Flat, these do it. In the +3dB (at 30Hz) position, the 25–35Hz range was, believe it or not, excessive! Bass quality, too, was excellent, although not quite as controlled as I have heard on (rare) occasions from big transmission-line systems such as the behemoth that Irving Fried used to demonstrate at audio shows. But don't misunderstand me: the RS-1B's bottom is excellent, having immense impact and awesome range. The cannons from Telarc's 1812 CD produced what felt like shock waves!

In fact, impactive sounds are one of the RS-1B's strongest points. The attacks of hard transients—snare drums, rim shots, and xylophone strikes—are razor-sharp, yet the speaker is entirely free from the exaggerated hardness and stridency found in most other speakers with comparable impact capability.

The only areas in which I have heard the RS-1Bs bettered are transparency, realism, and high-end openness and delicacy, all of which are better presented by some fullrange electrostatics, notably the MartinLogan Monolith. For example, the RS-1B's rendition of detail, while awesome, sounded a little heavy-handed, as if sharpness were substituting for delicacy. And while its high end was very smooth, the sound lacked the suavity and musical sweetness of the electrostatics. In the area of realism—the ability to give the impression that real, live instruments are playing—the RS-1Bs did very well, but were not equal to the best I have heard. In comparison, the RS-1B tended to fill in the spaces between bursts of musical sound.

Yet, I continue to be immensely impressed by the sound of the RS-1Bs, and that is what I felt ultimately to be their most outstanding characteristic: they have an "impressive" sound. They are awesomely exciting to listen to, and do an incredible job with bombastic, massive works like Mahler's Second Symphony and the 1812 Overture, and with high-powered recordings like Sheffield's Track and Drum records. But I found them rather less satisfying when reproducing smaller-scaled, more intimate material, such as chamber music and solo guitar. With that kind of music, they still image superbly, making a well-miked guitar sound like a mono recording with stereo ambience (which is exactly right). But that "impressive" quality remains, the music losing some of its gentleness.

There are a few other problems with the RS-1Bs, not the least of which is their setup. These speakers offer so much potential for superb sound quality that all the tweak factors, of little importance in mediocre systems, assume paramount importance. To set up the speakers according to the diagram in the manual, set all controls for Flat and let it go at that, is to throw away half the potential (and half the considerable cost) of the system J. Gordon Holt



It's this line
>>>>>>>>>>>>
If you wished to reproduce the voice of God, these speakers could do it.

<<<<<<<<<<<


That gets me in that article... I really enjoy Anthony Cordsman, and my views mesh with his more then they diverge.
 
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