Epic Quest to regain Lost Magic.

Dexer

New Member
Hi everyone!

22 years ago my friend invited us to his small 2 room apartment at Moscow outskirts to show his new audio system. The room where system was located was absolutely empty, it didn't even had wallpapers, walls was just concrete. Empty walls, scent of new apartment, sofa in a middle of room and this audio system:

NAD 501 CD player
NAD 306 Integrated Amplifier
Mirage M-490 Bookshelf speakers

I don't remember brands of interconnects and i still don't know the brand of speaker cables.

At that time I never heard better sound, the soundstage was around me, instruments was so real, voices was so believable. It was like they were really here, inside room. Sound was strong, punchy, dynamic and powerful. It was like beautiful dream, it was pure magic.

After some time my friend decided to buy a new system with turntable so he was willing to sell this one and i was happy to purchase it for only 400$.

I have spent numerous hours listening to my new treasure, it greatly changed all my musical tastes and opened many new genres for me. I was very very happy with it. Many of my friends was also deeply impressed by its sound. I have also found a huge difference in sound quality of original expensive CDs vs cheap "grey" CDs which was sold everywhere at that time.

Time have passed, we had a small kids and one titanium tweeter on Mirage was already creased by little finger. Later, another tweeter was creased too and even punctured a little. Surprisingly, system still sounded good and magic was still here.

So long story short, some time ago i decided to give this system a second life. CD player stopped working and i decided to buy a DAC instead of CD player. I have purchased AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2 and tried it as a source, but its not impressed me at all. Not with NAD-Mirage combo nor with my headphones Sennheiser HD-598.

And now i again decided i need to try to get magic back. I have purchased NAD D3020 and tried it with my Mirage speakers. It sounded mediocre, so i decided to buy new speakers and purchased KEF LS50. It still sound thin and weak, and doesn't impress me. So now i have 2 systems and still unhappy. I really don’t know where is a problem and how to solve it. Im sure KEFs are better than my old Mirage. Maybe a problem with my room? But NAD D3020 sounds unimpressive with my Sennheiser HD-598 as well. Maybe problem is in my ears?

Here are pics of my current room and setup. Its a quite big room, but i have tried it in a small room as well with not much better results.

IMG_0343.jpg IMG_0345.jpg IMG_0346.jpg IMG_0348.jpg
 
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I think i have posted in inappropriate section of forum. Could anyone please move it to General Audio Discussion?
 
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Welcome to AK! Nice looking room,and system! It does look like a rather large area. You may want to try a sub or two to help with the low end. It will probably make a huge difference.
 
Try using your NAD 306 with your KEF speakers. Your 3020 is a Class D (digital) amp and your 306 is a Class A/B amp (at least I think it is). Two total different engineering designs that won't sound the same regardless of sharing the same manufacturer.

Also, if your KEF speakers are new, they may need some time to "break in." I'd let them play for a couple of hundred hours before making any final conclusions.
 
Greetings to ya & this is the forum to showcase your setups! Mighty fine listening space & pieces!

Rome
 
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Those slanted walls may cause an acoustic anomaly. No expert in this area, but this may be a factor that won't go away, and you will have to go to some one in the know.

Speakers are one of the biggest, if not the most important factor in the sound equation, which will take a lot of listening to find the right fit for your environment/taste.

Keep in mind that time has a strange effect on what we first heard and how we hear things today. In your youth, much was magic to the senses and the passage of time effects the appreciation of today when we compare it to the past.

Good luck in your quest and have others involved.

Q
 
Welcome to AK! Nice looking room,and system! It does look like a rather large area. You may want to try a sub or two to help with the low end. It will probably make a huge difference.
Thanks! Yes, i was thinking about adding sub or two, but i feel that problem not only in low end. Middle sounds weak and i feel there is just not enough resolution in sound.

Try using your NAD 306 with your KEF speakers. Your 3020 is a Class D (digital) amp and your 306 is a Class A/B amp (at least I think it is). Two total different engineering designs that won't sound the same regardless of sharing the same manufacturer.
Also, if your KEF speakers are new, they may need some time to "break in." I'd let them play for a couple of hundred hours before making any final conclusions.

Thanks for this advice, i really didn't knew a "level" of NAD 306 because i never did any research at time of buying. Sadly i can't check Kefs with nad 306 now because its in other city now, and i need to move it here to try it with Kefs. Thanks fo clarifying that Nad 306 is just higher class and maybe its a reason why d 3020 does not impress me.

Greetings to ya & this the forum to showcase your setups! Mighty fine listening space & pieces!

Rome

Hello, Rome, thanks, i already understood that, but after posting. I hope some staff member would be so generous to move this topic to appropriate forum section. I hope one day i will make appropriate post in this section showcasing my ultimate mighty setup.

Those slanted walls may cause an acoustic anomaly. No expert in this area, but this may be a factor that won't go away, and you will have to go to some one in the know.

Speakers are one of the biggest, if not the most important factor in the sound equation, which will take a lot of listening to find the right fit for your environment/taste.

Keep in mind that time has a strange effect on what we first heard and how we hear things today. In your youth, much was magic to the senses and the passage of time effects the appreciation of today when we compare it to the past.

Good luck in your quest and have others involved.

Q

Thank you! Those walls not only slanted but also made of gypsum panels and empty inside. I think it causes reverberations and its bad for sound for sure. But i tried this setup in other, small room, got more bass but still was unsatisfied by sound quality. I think you right, that everything was more magic in youth, but i also seen impressions of other people. I think since 20 years already passed, i need a new system which will be better than my old one. I think LS50 is a right component to start. I will look for new amp and dac. If anyone have any suggestions, it would be much appreciated!
 
A Yamaha A-S 2100 would be the DAC, amp and pre all in one case. And it’s a really good sounding component by all accounts.
 
Just to clarify, I wouldn't say a class D amp is a lower or higher "class" than a Class A/B. Don't think of it in terms of ranking - they're just different designs. That being said, I do think the 306 is a better amp for your speakers than the 3020. More wattage, bigger transformer, and better suited for a larger room than the 3020 (which seems to be more for a headphone/computer setup). Since you can't compare them though, I think you're on the right path to upgrade your amp. Take that step first before you swap DACs.

Just my two cents. Good luck, and let us know how it works out!
 
Why do you suggest to choose amp before DAC? Is DAC choice depends on amp?

I think an upgraded amp will have more impact on your system than changing the DAC. So take it one step at a time. Of course, if you want to go integrated for a combo amp/dac, that's fine too. You just may be spending extra $$ on a new dac when your current one might be fine once you have a better amp for your speakers.
 
Im now thinking about Primare I22 with DAC. Does it look like a good idea taking in account my room size? Im also looking at Line Magnetic LM-211 IA and new Rega Brio, but i think Brio may have not enough power for my room.

Yamaha A-S 2100 is out of my budget
 
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Well, I'm not an expert, and others with more experience will probably chime in with more technically correct answers - but here's my .02 cents. The speakers are not a good match to your room. I had a similar experience. I restored a pair of Epi M100 speakers, and while they sound very nice, they just didn't sound full in my living room. They sound great downstairs in my basement. But my living room has a whole wall of glass on one side, multiple doorways, etc. And the small Epi bookshelf speakers just didn't cut, even with a sub.

So I brought my big Cerwin Vega VS-120 3 way floor standing speakers back in. Ahhhhh! That's full sound I was looking for!

Again, this is just my amateur experience here, but sometimes you need different speakers for the room. Here's my suggestion. Speakers are freaking expensive, so buying and swapping them in and out isn't a cheap thing to do. I would go to some thrift stores and maybe hit craigslist and plan on spending 100-200 bucks on some old speakers (try some big ones, some small ones, tower speakers, etc) and see if any of these make the system come alive. Again, just my .02.

You could also grab a used amp for less than $50 from Goodwill or Craigslist. It's a great way to toss something totally different in the mix and see if the whole system changes, but I would suspect the speakers first.

Good luck!
 
Nice system. And Beautiful house. I'm no expert on accoustics of your room. IMO, you may have a bright room. Limited pictures, but looks large and open to other areas. There is bare reflective flooring between speakers and sitting positions, might try covering with some rugs for trial. Possibly try adding other soft surfaces to the room. Investigate room treatments. Especially at first reflection surfaces. Search room treatments key words in AK and look at threads in Listening spaces section for ideas. Can be expensive for wall treatments.
I've not heard LS50's. They are well regarded on here. May need time to loosen up. Are you missing deep bass? Like mentioned, maybe more powerful amp. Maybe powered subwoofers.
You will find the solution.
 
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This is the right spot for posting pics of your system - however posting queries in GAD might get you more responses and - nice system_:)
 
I agree with many of the comments that an amp upgrade would help. My research as well as my friend owning the Kefs indicates it will come to life with higher powered amps. Furthermore class D amps can be a little to squeaky clean and analytical to compliment the Kefs. Your listening space looks like 'the place' to hang out in and enjoy your system.
 
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