AVR Receiver wattage, why so weak these days and only 2 channels driven instead of each channel?

[Nolansm]

I own a pair of Polk LSI25s and a Polk LSIM4 center. I purchased an Onkyo 676 thinking it would be able to drive the 3.1 system decently. Then of course i read the fine print. (210 watts at 1 channel driven) (110 watts at 2 channels driven). At $500, you'd think this receiver would be able to push a little more power.

I was looking online and on Ebay and a lot of the older 1080P Yahama, Marantz, and other AVRs and they all have have 130watts+ PER CHANNEL, some as cheap as $200.

What the hell happened and why do 4k receivers have so much less wattage?

 

[314carpenter]

Every year each avr receiver has a new added feature or two. That is how technology advancements work. You pay for all this new technolgy when you buy the latest model. Last year models will be on clearance for up to 40%off in the next month or so. You will see little change in pricing, between one year and the next as models tend to move sideways, not upward. So inevitably something needs to go. Power supplies are now taxed so much just providing the processing power that little remains for the built-in amps.

I suggest choosing to buy either older model receivers, higher efficiency speakers, or an external amplifier. I would not buy any avr that did not include preamp outputs, for future upgrades in your system

 

[Bill Ferris]

Well, I`m glad I got around all that compromise limitation by purchasing a Integra A/V preamp that no video ever passes through & has no wimpy power amps inside..

I guess I lucked out when I first got in to surround sound in the early nineties, because all the available processors at that time required external power amps like my Lexicon model CP something.

So it was easy when I upgraded to my current Integra as all my Crown & Mac amplifiers were already in place and connected to their respective speakers as all I had to do was to do with the Integra was menu setup & calibrate with 3000 tri-amp`d watts available for the direct 2 channel mode and another 300 became available for sides, rears & + 60 for the center channel when in the 7 channel surround mode. The Mac XRT 30`s speaker system doesn`t need a sub added, hence the absence of the decimal point after the 7

Yes, this type setup is more expensive and space consuming, but this type setup is also more flexible and readily individually updated/upgraded, if desired, and I personally wouldn`t want or have it any other way.

Your lifestyle/needs/desires and financial where with all, will best suit you.

Regards, OKB

 

[awillia6]

What are you doing for speaker/room correction, Bill?

 

[Bill Ferris]

What are you doing for speaker/room correction, Bill?

First the electronic digital cross over/loud speaker management does it`s alignment gig between the Highs/ mids/lows to pull that together time/phase wise..
Then I ran the Integra`s built in Audisey(not sure spelling) afterwards after inputting my speaker specifics(distance, large/small, ect. in the Integra`s setup menu.
Then let it run it`s it`s program.

 

[awillia6]

Nice, I'll bet that setup sound absolutely f***in' incredible. Counting up all those watts makes me jealous.

 

[Bill Ferris]

Nice, I'll bet that setup sound absolutely f***in' incredible. Counting up all those watts makes me jealous.

Thanks for your interest awillia6.

The system does sound pretty good, as I`ve been told, to all who`ve listened to it.

My racks 120v AC input ampere meter which doesn`t indicate the power draw from all the amps, as the surround sides and rears are on another 120 volt circuit and my 2 Mac MC 1201`s feeding the Mac XRT 30 bass cabinets are powered via a separate 40 ampere 240 volt circuit.

So when it`s playing music(no Sony 4K projector operating) and the racks 120 volt ampere indicates ~9.6 amperes, which is not the total power draw, in which I "guestimate" to be well over 25 amperes peak when the system is producing realistic SPL levels playing a music CD/DVD, or other digital music source.
There is no free ride with all that available horse power, but not any of the amplifiers is ever stressed even playing for hours at loud sound levels..
Just my checking account is stressed when the electric bill arrives !!

Have a great week Sir.

Regards, OKB

 

[donprice]

At $500, you'd think this receiver would be able to push a little more power.

I was looking online and on Ebay and a lot of the older 1080P Yahama, Marantz, and other AVRs and they all have have 130watts+ PER CHANNEL, some as cheap as $200.

What the hell happened and why do 4k receivers have so much less wattage?

>$1500 MSRP puts you in a different class power wise for the new units. Shop for last year's model on closeout....

Used AVRs can be a bargain if you look for the higher end models and have no need to chase the latest technology.

 

[charles 1973]

Actually the 100 wpc FTC rating the 676 has for $500 is pretty good. I just paid $900 for a 95 wpc Yamaha Aventage Dolby Atmos AVR. I tell you this Yamaha can really rock running full range while doing a commendable job with stereo music. And with the sub active, It can be down right scary for video.

The difference in SPL's between 100 wpc and 160 wpc is a barely perceivable 2 db's. So it should do well with up to 5.1. It's only with all 7 channels operating at full power that the power supply in these AVR's is fully taxed, Where I would expect perhaps 50 wpc. Considering it is seldom all 7 channels will ever be operating at full power at once, and we can use a sub to do some of the heavy lifting, It should play plenty loud too, as to the SQ, well you generally get what you pay for. IMO expect to spend about $1,000 or more if you want a new one that works well for both music and Video.

Perhaps you are doing something wrong if you find 100 wpc under powering your speakers. Check settings, Menu's and sub menu's, Use the units room correction and confirm that the results are reasonable.

Also the volume control on many of these AVR's is very deceptive. It wasn't until I connected power meters to my first AVR, A 70 wpc Onkyo 575x that I understood what I thought was near full power wasn't even close. Even at 70 wpc It never runs out of power. I still use it upstairs, and It still sounds very good. Funny thing, This 18 year old 350w 5 channel AVR weighs 12 lbs more than the new 700w 7 channel model. Go figure!

 

[StimpyWan]

The difference in SPL's between 100 wpc and 160 wpc is a barely perceivable 2 db's. So it should do well with up to 5.1. It's only with all 7 channels operating at full power that the power supply in these AVR's is fully taxed, Where I would expect perhaps 50 wpc. Considering it is seldom all 7 channels will ever be operating at full power at once, and we can use a sub to do some of the heavy lifting, It should play plenty loud too, as to the SQ, well you generally get what you pay for. IMO expect to spend about $1,000 or more if you want a new one that works well for both music and Video.

You are exactly correct. My Yamaha Aventage receiver will output over 150 wpc in stereo, and drops to a still very respectable 100X5 in surround. But, any thing more than 5 channels, it's 50 wpc. I'm sure this is probably due to current limiting kicking in to protect the receiver, which is understandable. I'm not complaining, as it's a freaking awesome sounding receiver. It's ESS Sabre32 DAC's are excellent sounding too.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Reasons are, Weight, feature creep, price points being important, and the simple fact 98% of so of AVR anything drives more efficient, easier to drive speakers, with the powered subwoofer or subwoofers taking up the bass load.

 

[twiiii]

Buy separate amp that mates with your speakers. Then every two to 3 years you can update your pre-amp processor and save a ton of money and have the latest technology. Are you ready for 22.2 sound when the new 8K broadcasts of the next summer olympics are aired?

 

[Spiceman50]

You are exactly correct. My Yamaha Aventage receiver will output over 150 wpc in stereo, and drops to a still very respectable 100X5 in surround. But, any thing more than 5 channels, it's 50 wpc. I'm sure this is probably due to current limiting kicking in to protect the receiver, which is understandable. I'm not complaining, as it's a freaking awesome sounding receiver. It's ESS Sabre32 DAC's are excellent sounding too.

3070?..... have that one myself.

 

[StimpyWan]

3070?..... have that one myself.

No, mine is a RX-A3030. I had to go with it, instead of a newer model. The 3030 was the last model that still offered composite, component, S-Video, and HDMI inputs. I wanted S-Video for my laser discs. Plus, the 3030 had multi-channel preamp outputs and inputs, and even the multi-channel inputs were dropped after the 3040. If my 3030 ever dies, I'll have to switch to another brand, or buy used, to still be able to get these features.

 

[Spiceman50]

No, mine is a RX-A3030. I had to go with it, instead of a newer model. The 3030 was the last model that still offered composite, component, S-Video, and HDMI inputs. I wanted S-Video for my laser discs. Plus, the 3030 had multi-channel preamp outputs and inputs, and even the multi-channel inputs were dropped after the 3040. If my 3030 ever dies, I'll have to switch to another brand, or buy used, to still be able to get these features.

Hah, I learned something new. I had not realized any other model had the 32 bit saber DAC, and the 3030 darn sure does. Reading the specs ... I'd have to say you got the absolute best bang for the buck. Most those specs are the same on the 3070.

I originally was going for the 3050 if memory serves me, and at the last minute I put my own foot down and demanded I shoot for the top of the line this time. Although the 3070 did have some features I liked/wanted too. Weather the extra money I spent for the top of the line was worth it ... time will tell if I take advantage of the extra features I paid for.

 

[StimpyWan]

The 3050 would have been top of the line. All of the 30XX models are the top models, for their particular years. So, 3030, 3040, 3050, 3060, and 3070, are all Yamaha's highest models. It's just that a new year separates each version. New year and a few new features. Hardware wise, the 3030 was top, of any of these, but no Atmos. But, that was no big deal to me. Though, I do enjoy it's ESS Sabre DACs. Very nice.

 

[N8Nagel]

No, mine is a RX-A3030. I had to go with it, instead of a newer model. The 3030 was the last model that still offered composite, component, S-Video, and HDMI inputs. I wanted S-Video for my laser discs. Plus, the 3030 had multi-channel preamp outputs and inputs, and even the multi-channel inputs were dropped after the 3040. If my 3030 ever dies, I'll have to switch to another brand, or buy used, to still be able to get these features.

Isn't S-video component video with a different connector? That is if you don't have S-video but you do have component, you just need a hardwired passive adapter to make it work?

 

[StimpyWan]

Isn't S-video component video with a different connector? That is if you don't have S-video but you do have component, you just need a hardwired passive adapter to make it work?

Yea, but S-Video was the highest connection that laser disc players used. Some Laser/DVD combi players had component, but that was strictly for the DVD playback. Laser was still S-Video out. Though, I could do S-Video to component, with an adapter, to a later receiver.

 

[Bill Ferris]

No, mine is a RX-A3030. I had to go with it, instead of a newer model. The 3030 was the last model that still offered composite, component, S-Video, and HDMI inputs. I wanted S-Video for my laser discs. Plus, the 3030 had multi-channel preamp outputs and inputs, and even the multi-channel inputs were dropped after the 3040. If my 3030 ever dies, I'll have to switch to another brand, or buy used, to still be able to get these features.

Ref :S-Video/composite input A/V receiver compatibility/availability--
Don`t let that effect your A/V receiver choice..
I still watch laser discs too, but use inexpensive S-/Composite to HDMI converters like StarTech offers for my main living room. projector & 5 room HDMI distribution that I purchased from Markertek for less than $ 150.00..
There are other makes of these convertors, but they usually cost more.. Check it out Sir.

Also since I also have (2) 4 channel Swann wireless security camera systems that one outputs in composite & the other in S-Video, which are also 5 room distributed, I have to convert the S-Video feed on some of the later model flat screen LED TV`s, because of their omission of S-Video inputs, so I use that same convertor and they are flexible and work very well.

I have this setup so if I`m watching a BR DVD or Laser disc and hear a noise from outside, I can pause the player and select the TV`s camera`s input/s and check out the outside of my house to see what`s going on.

Just a thought/suggestion/viable option StimpyWan

Regards, OKB

 

[whoaru99]

Isn't S-video component video with a different connector? That is if you don't have S-video but you do have component, you just need a hardwired passive adapter to make it work?

Not really.

Loosely one could say S-video is form of component video since the luma and chroma are separated into individual components.

However, that is not the same as what we generally refer to as component video that is separated three ways; one luma and two different chroma signals.