When does collecting cross the line and become hoarding?

[msg1975]

A look down the rabbit hole. When does collecting equipment cross the line of rational behavior?

Sorry, this is longer winded than I intended….

When I was a kid, I had a great stereo that I mostly built from broken components people gave me and which I repaired. The exception was my Sony receiver (STR-720), which was the very first expensive item I ever bought with my own hard earned money and which I still have and use. But once I graduated college and got married, audio took a back seat to family and career. I was content with a few "home theater in a box" solutions while my receiver, equalizer, and TT sat in a box in the garage. My mom threw out my excellent homemade speakers shortly after I got married as well as my CD player and cassette decks. I was ok with it at the time.

At 38, I found myself a widower and a full time dad, and without any sense of who I was before I was married. So I incrementally got back into the hobbies I had as a kid. First came a few classic cars, mostly complete b/c I didn't have the time to restore anything anymore. Then came the audio bug, and it came on strong. It started innocently enough. I redecorated the house and found myself with an empty credenza top in my office. So I dug out my stereo and proudly placed it on the credenza, and located an old pair of mid 90s JBL bookshelf speakers someone had given me. After a refoam, I realized how terrible they sounded, and I decided to replace them. So began the journey…

Since then, I've owned dozens of speaker pairs, and countless components. Most I've sold off, as I slowly relearned what sounded good to my ears, and reacquainted myself with the brands I loved as a kid. I’ve mostly settled on vintage Sansui and Sony ES components, and higher end Polk speakers like the SDA and Monitor series for music, and the LSi series for home theater. And I have a particular fondness for Denon TTs from the mid 80s. I had enough stuff that my once clean office was cluttered and constantly messy, which was exactly the opposite of what I had intended at the beginning.

I had a vintage setup that I did a lot of the repair on (new caps, transistors, etc), a few nice home theaters in different rooms, and a stack (literally) of Sony ES components (also that I spent a lot of time repairing) that I love. I had so much stuff, that in both an effort to declutter and an unwillingness to part with certain items, I wound up moving a bunch of it into a storage unit. My storage unit now has three amazing pairs of speakers: Polk SRS SDA 1.2tls, LSiM707s, and McIntosh XL10 bookshelf speakers. And it has a dozen other components just sitting there, waiting for me to find a place. And yet I still find myself constantly perusing CL and eBay and other sites for more. For nothing which I need.

Which brings me to the heart of the story; a wake up call for me.

Yesterday, I went to look at a pair of Polk RTA 15tls. Why? I don’t know. I know that I have enough, and that I'm happy with what I have. The guy wanted $300, which I thought was high considering he mentioned in the ad that the tweeters were abused. But I figured if I could get them for $250, I’d take the risk on having to put in $100 worth of tweeters (and probably a $50 rebuild on the crossovers). $400 seemed about right as a final value for them once the work was done. When I got to the house, his garage door was open and I could see that he had hundreds of components (speakers, amps, CD players, tuners, preamps, and PARTS)... stacked up in the garage right up to the ceiling. He had stuff everywhere, even piled on top of a sixty-something mustang, of which only the back foot was visible. Walking into the house, it was truly gross. He had components on every flat surface. As we passed his study, I could make out a just little path to his desk. In his media room, I had to walk over cables, and speaker parts, and the floor was littered with CDs and other components. A glance into an open bedroom door visible from the media room showed it was no better in there. And from what I could see, it was audiophile grade stuff. I was horrified, and I realized that I could easily see myself moving in this direction if I didn’t exert a certain amount of control (which I was clearly not exerting, since I was there in the first place). After listening to the speakers, (which had to take a time out as he had to pull a tweeter and spray deoxit on the wires to get it to work), I offered him the $250, thinking he would surely be happy to get _something_ out of the house. I did so with the knowledge that I would definitely have to replace the tweets and upgrade the crossovers. The speakers were in good cosmetic condition, but sounded a little muddy for my test songs. But nope, he was firm on price. In fact, he seemed a bit indignant about it. It was almost comical watching him climb over stuff while telling me he was firm on the price. He was clearly knowledgeable, and I’m sure he knew what they needed, but he wasn’t interested in selling them at $250 even if it meant two less large items to climb around. So I left.

As I walked to my car, I found myself more apprehensive as to where this hobby could take me if left uncontrolled, than I was disappointed about an unsuccessful negotiation. At least I was willing to walk away. I know some would have just forked over the extra $50.

And now to the question for you fellow audiophiles?. How many of you face the same tendencies? That seemingly uncontrollable urge to find the next addition to your setup, or a bad case of upgrade-it is, with the full knowledge that what you already have is pretty perfect and far better than most people get to enjoy. When is enough, enough?

These thoughts bounced around in my head all night as I was sleeping, clearly occupying my dreams although the details of said dreams have already faded away…

Sorry for the long post…

 

[Hyfi]

In short, I would say if you have piles of gear and it is not in use or in rotation, it is just a dust collection and being hoarded. Personally, I would just prefer one or two great systems with more modern gear that does not need work, repair, recapping, refoaming and so on. I get the appeal, but if you don't use it, what are you saving it all for?

 

[Condorsat]

Collecting (vice hoarding)

1. Consider the monetary value … at least in part ... of ownership.
   
   
2. Consider the rarity … at least in part ... of the item.
   
   
3. Manage your collection … provide a road map of where you want to go.
   
   
4. Pride in ownership ... collection is curated – new acquisitions analyzed & categorized.
   
   
5. Is the collection being used … still serving a purpose.

 

[DaveVoorhis]

A look down the rabbit hole. When does collecting equipment cross the line of rational behavior?

When you can't get into the bathroom, but it doesn't matter because there are empty consoles you can pee in.

When your friends and relatives stage an intervention, but they have to stop when they can't tell whether you've snuck out or are just hiding behind stuff.

When you can't get into the kitchen, but it's only a problem because the 'fridge is used to store cassette tapes and the stove is where you keep your NOS 12AX7 tubes.

When you can't sleep in your own bed because that's where the refoamed speakers rest before duty.

When you can't find the floor...

...or the ceiling.

 

[ETLS]

When is the last time you saw your coffeepot? If you stopped drinking coffee because you cannot find it, you need a bigger house, and within walking distance to Starbucks. Bonus points if there is a thrift store in the same parking lot.

I meant, you might be hoarding.

 

[ConradH]

IMO, every piece should have a reason for being there. For me it's often a technical reason, an unusual design or, in the case of turntables, an example of each drive type. If the stuff is on shelves or stacked in some reasonable manner, OK, but if it's preventing you from walking around, it's too much. Other that, I dislike the whole notion of other people using the word "hoarder" to define or control people. You don't honestly think they're just concerned about your welfare do you?

 

[jeffro67]

I got the bug like you a few years back and find myself in a similar position currently..Ive been buying stuff from garage sales, ebay, estate sales and thrift stores to the point where I'm also asking myself the same question you are., I looked at a lot of the purchases as little bank accounts since I can surely flip them for at least what I bought them for if not more, but I also am having a hard time letting anything go so that concerns me too.

It's time to thin the herd my friend, you can't have it all and maybe the audio community would be a better place with these unused components in somebody's hands who can truly enjoy them!
No More purchases for me, I'm done and it's time to declutter.

 

[dcmfan]

I've had good luck using this statement as a guide:

"If [X] is having a negative effect on one or more major life areas (health, friends, finances, family, job, legal, etc) then [X] may be a problem area."

More than once it's helped me draw a line between "ample" and "excessive".

 

[g..v]

So, in other words, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, just to name two, hoard cash? What on earth do they need if for???

 

[Hyfi]

So, in other words, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, just to name two, hoard cash? What on earth do they need if for???

How else can you get on the Top 10 Richest People in the World List?

 

[JDub]

If you smile admiringly as you walk past a shelf-full of it, it's a collection.
If you crack your shin trying to step over a stack of it, it's a hoard.

 

[UncleBingo]

When the music stops. Sounds like I'm joking, but collectors typically have a an affection for what they accumulate, or take on duplications in order to trade them for other pieces the collection lacks. For me, the line appears where the ability to maintain items becomes problematic.

 

[sanford12]

That's what hoarder looks like. I'm just glad I like money more than stuff. It really cuts down on the clutter. There's a difference between a collector and a hoarder. That he sold something gives the hope that he may see the problem. When your home has lost it's first function and just becomes a repository for stuff and you don't bother to pick up what hits the floor. That's a bad path.

 

[SoCal Sam]

If you do not think you are hoarding, then you are not. If you have the money and space to collect, why not? The problem here is that it is too easy to judge others when in fact that judgement is unnecessary and likely unwelcome. If the other guy's activities affect no one else but himself, then there is nothing wrong and he should be free to do as he wishes including setting his own price.

 

[msg1975]

If you do not think you are hoarding, then you are not. If you have the money and space to collect, why not? The problem here is that it is too easy to judge others when in fact that judgement is unnecessary and likely unwelcome. If the other guy's activities affect no one else but himself, then there is nothing wrong and he should be free to do as he wishes including setting his own price.

I agree that he is free to do as he pleases. Not once did I say he should do this or he should do that. I didn't say he should get rid of a single thing. Nor did I berate him for not agreeing with my perceived value. And as for judgement... well... I never actually accused him of hoarding. I just described what I saw, exposed my own weakness and tendencies, and then asked for the group's opinion of where the line was.

 

[Tom Brennan]

That people have a right to do as they please if they affect no one else (and that’s debatable) doesn’t mean we’ve no right to judge them. Tolerance isn’t the same as approval.

 

[MacNoob]

So, in other words, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, just to name two, hoard cash? What on earth do they need if for???

Both of those are among the world's most prolific philanthropists. They're giving muchj of it away to good causes. Pretty much the opposite of hoarders.

 

[Old Guy8]

When the bank was clearing out my aunts house to liquidate a substantial estate. While clearing out a closet, they discovered it was actually a bathroom.

 

[spicer]

Basically.. the line is crossed when you first ask the question... which might lead to another question, like, what, if anything, should I do about it...or a statement something along the line of...yes, crossing the line, but so what, I enjoy it. It seems to be a condition that sorts itself out over time with no right or wrong necessarily attached to it. On a humorous side... have you ever known a lady/person who lived with 20+ cats... that's hoarding but no one calls it that.

 

[SoCal Sam]

That people have a right to do as they please if they affect no one else (and that’s debatable) doesn’t mean we’ve no right to judge them. Tolerance isn’t the same as approval.

Sure, have an opinion. However, few if anyone seek your approval or by inference, your disapproval. And yes, there is a line to be drawn between harmless and harmful collecting. Harmless collecting has given us some very interesting people such as the guy who attempted to collect every single video game cartridge ever made. IIRC, he came pretty close. Or closer to home, the great and former AK member Vintagestereo who attempted to collected every solid state TOTL receiver from the silver era. He came pretty close to achieving his dream. If you think anything less than positive thoughts about these guys' activities, that is your problem. The world is a lot richer for having these guys around. This being said, harmful collecting is an important distinction. If the collection hazards the life and well being of others, Houston we have a problem. If the collecting harms the physical health of the collector, that's self destructive and worthy of intervention. Maybe the guy the OP encountered crosses this line, we don't know.