Help- setup for 1500 sq ft cafe

BluePine

New Member
im trying to figure out what would work best. I have a cafe that isn’t too noisey I the day but in the evening we want to have vinyl DJ nights. Nothing crazy, just people playing records in a chill environment. Would a PA system be best? Or just a home stereo? We have a realistic vintage amp now, some JBL shelf speakers and an iPod plugged in. The sounds sucks but I don’t know where to start.
I’ve been checking out setups at bars/restaurants and the general feeling is it’s an afterthought.
What would you all recommend?
 
Make sure patrons can not access the volume and other controls.
There are many idiots out there and they look just like us.

Maybe a "pro amp" and suitable decent sounding (is that possible?) pro/dj speakers.
 
While there are many bashers out there, this is an environment that Bose tends to excel at.

While Bose is generally not considered audiophile grade sound, in that environment nobody will be doing any critical listening.

Check out the Bose website and look at some of their pro gear. It is on the expensive side but tends to be built well and durable.

You might even scan CraigsList or eBay for some deals.
 
Rather than a PA system, which might get too loud for the crowd, I'd go with multiple small speaker pairs mounted high in a LRLRLR deployment. More even dispersion of SPLs throughout the room that way, so that nobody has to have their conversation obliterated by sitting next to PA speakers. Bose, Klipsch or whatever.
 
Playing copyrighted music in a business environment is a no-no if you are not subscribed to BMI. If the wrong person walks in, you may be fined, big time.

That means, no records, no radio, no internet radio, no CDs, no tapes, unless you play the game (and the license fees).

https://cloudcovermusic.com/?utm_so...MItMK--NG_2QIVBo9pCh27ngnNEAAYASAAEgKRM_D_BwE

http://www.playnetwork.com/music-fo...MItMK--NG_2QIVBo9pCh27ngnNEAAYAiAAEgLls_D_BwE

https://www.soundtrackyourbrand.com...MItMK--NG_2QIVBo9pCh27ngnNEAAYBCAAEgLQPPD_BwE
 
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You've got quite a few decisions to make, but I'll say this: 1500 square feet is a lot for consumer gear unless you're using multiple amps and speaker pairs. If it were me, I'd go with pro gear - reasonably priced pro speakers are much better than they used to be.
 
There are numerous experts in this exact field on this forum beside the rest of us armchair QB's. If they knew your location more help may be forthcoming.
 
I would skip the pro gear and go with a distributed sound system, which is a 70 volt output amp made by Crown, QSC, or Crest, ....ect. And then get ceiling speakers that you distribute evenly throughout your establishment and have a processor that has multiple inputs for microphones, music sources, even the fire alarm, so that it will mute the music and sound the alarm. These are all common as most commercial establishments use them. They might not have them turned up much so they seem more like background music but I have installed many that rock. You can also install subs in the ceilings so that you get the full dynamic range your looking for. During the days or times your not using the vinyl you can just select your other source from a music provider from the network and it will add the ambiance that you would like for your place. Prices vary for the music service but for most mom and pop places I used the commercial satalite radio as they have a lot of choices for the lowest price. For your records, you will need to get with BMI or ASCAP and get what you would need if your DJ. Prices usually depend on the number of guest you have on average, at least that is what I think. I have never actually checked into that but I know that is how they price their commercial rates for music providers. Once I did a roll out of the Chilies restaurant and I heard that they got in trouble because they were not paying enough based on the number of seats in place. The larger the venue the higher the price.
 
I think the main question here deals with your intended purpose(es). Which is it?

1) A DJ night, which is an event where the DJ, and his show, will be the main focus of the evening. This might be better served with a couple of stand mounted PA speakers up front and the DJ handles the rights to the music played..

or...

2) Providing background music for your customers to enjoy while they share conversation while leisurely sipping a cuppa joe. For this, I'm with the multiple speakers at a low level crowd and the resources that Wayne suggests.

Two different scenarios with different solutions. Which are you wanting to address?
 
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Another factor which has not been mentioned yet is the physical layout of the room(s). Is it square or an almost square rectangle? Is it a long narrow rectangle? Is it L-shaped? Any side rooms or spaces that are set off from the main area? How high is the ceiling and what material is it made of, acoustical tiles?

Orientation of listeners in relation to the DJ is important. If people will be close to the DJ, and there are also people a significant distance further away which would require blasting the main speakers, then it would be too much for anyone up close. In that case, perhaps multiple speaker pairs would be a better option.

I used to frequent a bar that had one large room that was maybe around 2500 sq ft, and a rectangle of approximately 3:2 proportionately. One end of that room had pool tables, the other end had a small bar and several dart boards.

The pool table end was served by a pair of Yamaha 15"-and-a-horn pro speakers. The dart board end of the room was served by a tiny pair of Bose satellites and a matching sub. I believe this may have been an Acoustimass (sp?) system. I am not a fan of Bose but not a hater either. Likewise, I am not a Yamaha hater. Indeed, I think that company does a lot right and I have a pretty high opinion.

In the end of that room being served by those two little Bose speakers and matching sub, music sounded sweet. The other end, music sounded like crap.

Pro speakers are designed with a priority of high efficiency, which means that frequency response can have peaks and dips that would not be typical of decent home audio speakers. It is assumed (an unwritten "rule") that pro speakers need competent EQ'ing to sound good. Competent EQ'ing is easier said than done, i.e. most who think they can do it, can not. Without that competent EQ'ing, pro speakers, especially mid-to-lower grades of them, will not sound as good as decent home audio speakers, and some of them can sound downright awful. So IMO it would not be a good idea to simply hang up a couple of pro speakers fed by a powerful amp, because of sound quality and also because of (possible) close proximity to your patrons' ears.

IF there is some space (like a dance floor) between the DJ and the area where your patrons will be seated, then the pro speakers fed by a (relatively) powerful amp may make more sense. But if you do this, invest in an equalizer and get someone with pro experience and a good ear to set-up the system.

my .02¢
 
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Omni-directional pendant speakers? Those disperse the sound in all directions so you should get a good blend pretty much anywhere. Simple solution if you have a suspended ceiling would be standard panel speakers. In either case, a decent receiver with a fairly wide ohm range should be able to handle three or four pairs hooked up in parallel long as you don't drive em too hard.
 
Quality or quantity ?
A dj setup will want stereo, and great sq,
try to stay all analogue.
Avoid digital surround sound if at all possible.
If I was attending, my focus would be on the stereo sound quality.
Dj is probably going to want lots of bass.
 
A 1500 sq. ft cafe is not that big, so 70v PA system is certainly not required. JBL makes (new) speakers that are perfect for this application from the Professional line. I suggest the JBL 308P. It has built in amplifiers (bi-amplified, so it really only needs a source and maybe a preamp. The speakers need 120 volt power, but there are way to get the signal to them wirelessly. These are perfect for background music of all kinds and will handle DJ stuff.

https://www.jbl.com/studio-monitors..._308PMKII-_color=Black-GLOBAL-Current#start=1
 
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l agree with Musichal to distribute speakers so a few tables don't get assulted.
 
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Rather than a PA system, which might get too loud for the crowd, I'd go with multiple small speaker pairs mounted high in a LRLRLR deployment. More even dispersion of SPLs throughout the room that way, so that nobody has to have their conversation obliterated by sitting next to PA speakers. Bose, Klipsch or whatever.

I've set commercial systems up like this and it does work well. I would likely add another set of bigger speakers now like powered Altos to supplant them.
 
and the general feeling is it’s an afterthought.

Sometimes it is. The venue gets the prosound company estimate and kacks over the price.

Regarding the LRLRLR layout @musichal mentioned, it works well up to moderately high volume but there may be a fall-off in intelligibility if played at tough to talk levels. Still, for an all analog system with no processing or delay it can be quite impressive. You can use a speaker selector to have nominal zone control over the room and a single 4-ohm stable Japanese integrated amp to run everything.

The only thing I'd do differently in yours is add powered speakers flanking the DJ area . You would shut off the normal pair there w/ the switchbox (or not, depends on what sounds best) when you use the powered ones. A mixer handles the volume control for the powered speakers and you could split the output from it to the integrated amp to control the normal speaker pairs. The mixer then provides the master volume control for both.

This is the layout for a LRLRLR speaker setup. Basically wherever you are in the room you are always within a stereo pair -

2fFvwEI.png


It's been awhile since I've set one of these up so any corrections appreciated.

:thumbsup:
 
I have found stereo to be a complete waste of time in these types of venues. We not talking critical listening here, half the people are going to be talking to each others and with all the sounds going on in a restaurant or bar, just having multiple sound sources is fine. Has anyone ever gone to a live venue? They are not stereo.
 
I have found stereo to be a complete waste of time in these types of venues. We not talking critical listening here, half the people are going to be talking to each others and with all the sounds going on in a restaurant or bar, just having multiple sound sources is fine. Has anyone ever gone to a live venue? They are not stereo.
But, If he goes the stereo route and it sounds really good people may keep coming back. Just think. Good music evenly distributed around the room at proper volume levels. What a concept. And dinner with friends too? Oh yes.
 
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