Levels , with no EQ , what's your preference , flat response zero or + bass & treble?

I have yet to meet a bass control that I like. Either the Q is too wide, or their center frequency is too high.
Some treble controls have worked OK, but they can be guilty of the same sins as above.
So, they tend to stay flat.

I've always preferred EQ over tone controls, and now appreciate digital EQ with its almost infinite possibilities.
 
I took efficiency to refer to speakers. Are you trying to say that speakers that are more or less efficient are more or less accurate? Are Klipschorns more accurate than a pair of Wilsons because they're more efficient? I don't think so. How about I say speaker efficiency has nothing to do with speaker accuracy.

Yes, I use dual subs. However, their settings were determined by making measurements. Once set they never get tweaked. Were they set by ear you could possibly consider setting them as using tone controls. Using measurements to set them removes the whole tone control question.

Accuracy is dependent upon the efficiency of every component in the signal path and better when each component shares equal values prior to the speakers. Then of course the impendence between the powerboard and the crossover is significant if a person believes that, but that’s another subject of relativity....

I personally believe that accuracy is created just like sound as in an accurate result. So, no....I don’t think that increased efficiency has anything to do with accuracy. It’s all relative to the efficient contribution of each component in the signal path. If you have an Onkyo C-7030 as a source playing a properly recorded CD which is an extremely efficient component that matches the rest of the system, it will be more efficient source than a twenty year old TOTL CD player that does not match, the resulting sound from the speakers will be more accurate. A cartridge with a wide range of frequencies will be a better source and will reflect that if all the components in the signal path also have a wide range of frequencies also...because speakers reproduce frequencies

But, I don’t think I can recreate the sound I heard at a concert on my system without adjusting the sound to be the same as what I heard at a concert. I’m talking about past similarities, yes a great sound can be had doing many different things. But, I don’t think that I can get the instrumentals to sound the same. I’ve got a little GE AM/FM radio that sounds real close as far as tones go, but I couldn’t do that with a system. Then adjusting takes longer than you would think....

But, to each their own....I’m still surprised by what passes for knowledge.
 
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I think many have not noticed you also asked about levels used for listening. Like many others I've ripped my CD collection to an NAS and use a laptop with an external DAC as a music server. Unlike some I don't use the normalize function available on most music player applications. All music is not supposed to be the same volume as normalizing does to a music library.
n:D
Joe, I can understand what you are saying, particularly with classical where there is a lot of loud and quiet passages that were meant to have impact. Totally respect to where you are coming from.

However I have to disagree in my particular situation with the type music I play, and the way I listen , with no classical. I use something called volume leveling in jriver which keeps the music more or less level volume wise without affecting the dynamic range of the tracks. Since I always play randomized playlist it used to keep me chasing the volume up and down with each track often having very different dynamic range ratings from the previous one . Seemed like every track was either too loud (which my wife would yell to turn it down) or the next song was far too low in volume. I was always chasing the volume every song. This phenomenon does not occur much when playing whole albums as most tracks of the same album are recorded and mastered at the similar levels.

Now I always use volume leveling . It has allowed me to enjoy my music without having the next track being too loud or too low. https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Volume_Leveling
 
You mentioned that you can hear the clarity get muffled and that's exactly what my ears hear as well. Bravo!! :banana:
Keep in mind, when you're using tone controls, if you're not eq'ing but attempting to add something, you can't do it without taking something away. So if the system isn't lacking, it will be muffled. Just as adding a sub to the extent it's actually needed for eq, boosting higher frequencies until they're readily apparent will attenuate/cancel others. You can't have it both ways. Room treatment is obviously the best way to eq because you're much more likely to get it in the ball park by nature rather than electronics. So you won't be attempting to figure out what happened in the recording studio.
 
i run half my gear flat and half adjusted depends on the amp/receiver itself and what im pairing it with. I like my 8B flat and i like the bass on my 500C set a little less. others i add more midrange and treble. i seldom play CDs anymore but when i do usually need to turn down the bass.
 
Accuracy is dependent upon the efficiency of every component in the signal path and better when each component shares equal values prior to the speakers. Then of course the impendence between the powerboard and the crossover is significant if a person believes that, but that’s another subject of relativity....

I think we have different definitions as to what efficiency in a component means. I'll stick with the standard definition which is based on how much of the used electricity is wasted producing heat.
 
Seems like some folks have no idea what's truly involved in either tone controls or EQ as regards frequency response to a given input signal...
 
Seems like some folks have no idea what's truly involved in either tone controls or EQ as regards frequency response to a given input signal...

Are not tone controls basically a two freq. equalizer?
Both add and/take away from the basic freq. curve as presented by the source (table/CD player/etc.).
The end result is tailoring the signal to taste.
Am I getting this wrong?
 
I adjust as I see fit. Lots of people are into flat, and that's fine for them. I like music and I like gear, but I'm not pursuing as accurate reproduction as possible. It's a unicorn I don't feel like chasing. Besides, almost all of the sound we get our grubby little hands on is the result of the artists, engineers, producers, mixers, mastering engineers...etc.

Some of those people are stupid and/or don't like the same sound as I do. It actually reminds me of the time I was really interested in buying some old Heathkit stuff. My GF asked why I wanted old stuff like that. I told her it was because it was put together by hand. By an actual human.

She asked, "But what if that guy was an idiot?"
Finally got my pair of Infinity Quantum 2s restored after 5 or 6 years of silence as well rearranging my listening space to take advantage of their capabilities for the first time ever. I've been listening mostly to CDs. I am really amazed at how much variation there is in source material. A relative handful sound perfect as far as the mix of solid bass and crystal highs. A large percentage sound good, but benefit with a little bass and treble nob fiddling. Some just sound very limited in frequency and dynamics. Makes me wonder how so many golden ears seem to hear so much difference in electronics or speakers when obviously the source material varies so much.
 
I think we have different definitions as to what efficiency in a component means. I'll stick with the standard definition which is based on how much of the used electricity is wasted producing heat.

There’s efficiency in the way circuits are made to prevent heat build up, which creates an efficient pathway for the signal which is evident in lower THD and higher S/N ratios...

It’s the same thing....

Then using equipment of equal values !!!
 
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So far I haven't heard much about the crossover controls on speakers. Is this the same thing as bass/treble on an amplifier or if not, what is the difference?

How many here don't use tone controls on their amp but have set something up on their speakers that effect the sound? And what would be considered "flat" in regards to speakers anyway? With my JBL'S anything but full output on these controls would be adding a resistor to the audio path.

With my 3 way speakers I run the mid range at the -4db and the tweeter is set at close to full output.
 
I tend to prefer the term sensitivity to efficiency when discussing speaker power requirements but either are understood and used interchangeably. With amps inefficiency would show up as heat buildup perhaps but that could simple be poorly designed airflow used fir heat extraction, To me input wattage to output wattage as a ratio would be efficiency as far as amps go which isn't often a consideration as to sq either. If that sort of efficiency were required of amps, some of which some double as a room heater source, many wouldn't even be considered as Hi Fi equipment.

Simple or complex audio paths isn't about efficiency either other than maybe the use of materials for building amps IMHO .
 
I tend to prefer the term sensitivity to efficiency when discussing speaker power requirements but either are understood and used interchangeably. With amps inefficiency would show up as heat buildup perhaps but that could simple be poorly designed airflow used fir heat extraction, To me input wattage to output wattage as a ratio would be efficiency as far as amps go which isn't often a consideration as to sq either. If that sort of efficiency were required of amps, some of which some double as a room heater source, many wouldn't even be considered as Hi Fi equipment.

Simple or complex audio paths isn't about efficiency either other than maybe the use of materials for building amps IMHO .
Airflow ain't got nuttin' to do with it. :confused:
 
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