Upgrade Vinyl set up by tube phono preamp

hector2018

New Member
My apologies if the topic seems familiar to other FMs but I thought I will post my queries along with details of my current set up to get more clarity.

I am exploring a possibility of upgrading my vinyl set up with the addition of a either a Tube Phono Preamplifier or with a Tube Amplifier to get the actual "tube sound" experience.

My existing set up is as given below:

Turntable: Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (DC) with Ortofon 2M Red cartridge
CD Player: Marantz CD6005
Integrated Amplifier: Marantz PM6004 Integrated Amplifier
Stereo Speakers: Mordaunt-Short Mezzo-2 Bookshelf Speakers

At present my system is connected as shown below:

Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (DC) --> Phono input of Marantz PM6004 --> output of PM 6004 goes to Mordaunt Short Mezzo-2 bookshelf speakers

Type of Music I listen to: (in both vinyl, Audio CDs & MP3)

Indian Movie Music from 70’s, 80’s & 90’s
Classic rock music: Pink Floyd, Dire Straits, Deep Purple, Eagles, Scorpions etc
Western classical music: Concerts by Bach, Mozart, Beethoven etc

I would like to explore the possibility of having a “Tube Phono Preamplifier” between my Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (DC) T/T & my Marantz integrated amplifier. I have never owned tubes so I have no experience in this area but lots of questions:

Queries from my side:

1. Considering my existing set up, is it possible to have a Tube Phono Preamplifier installed between my T/T & the integrated amplifier?

2. If yes, then can I connect the Tube Phono Preamp to my Integrated Amplifier’s AUX line in port?

3. If no, then what can be an alternative arrangement so that I can enjoy tube amplification of my T/Ts output?

4. Talked to couple of experts & have instead received the following recommendation for setting up the upgraded system?

Option 1: T/T --> SS Phono Preamp --> Tube Integrated Amplifier --> Speakers

Option 2: T/T --> Tube Phono Preamp --> SS Power Amplifier --> Speakers

Option 3: T/T --> Tube Preamplifier --> SS Power Amplifier --> Speakers (I believe in this option I can connect my CD player also to the tube preamp)

Considering my specific case of the existing equipment & the music taste, which option can be viable or advisable?

I have gone thru numerous reports in several forums on similar subjects, but I'm still not clear & getting more confused. I look forward to your guidance & feedback with reference to my queries & my current set of equipment which I have mentioned above.

Looking forward to hear from you all...
 
If you are generally satisfied by your system as it stands now, but just want to experiment with tubes, a tubed phono preamp would be the easiest option. Yes, you can use a tubed phono preamp from your TT into an AUX or TAPE IN input into your integrated amp. IME, tubes have the greatest influence in the "front end" of the system--either as a phono preamp or full-on tubed preamp stage. A good amplifier (tube or SS) should only amplify the source signal it is fed, without "coloration" or "artifacts".
 
Echoing savatage1973, you can definitely use a tubed phono preamp between your turntable and the integrated amp. In my bedroom set up, I have a Pro-Ject DC feeding a Pro-Ject DS2 Tube Box, which then goes into either an integrated tube amp (antique sound lab aq-1003dt) or a tube headphone amp (schiit valhalla 2).

There are a lot of options out there and budget will be probably your biggest constraint.
 
Guyz, thanks a lot for your suggestions.

If I decide to venture into the quest for the "tube sound"..then I can get a tube phono preamp.

I've heard very good reviews about Pro-ject Tube Box DS & Parks Audio Budgie Tube Phono Preamp
If we compare, both Pro-ject Tube Box DS vs Parks Audio Budgie Tube Phono Preamp, then which one will be better sonically according to people who have listened to both products?

have you tried any of these 2?
 
Some will say they are light on gain, but the best tube phono I ever heard was 6922s (SP 6DJ8). What's the output on that Ortofon?
 
Some will say they are light on gain, but the best tube phono I ever heard was 6922s (SP 6DJ8). What's the output on that Ortofon?

2M Red Technical data
Output voltage at 1000 Hz, 5cm/sec. - 5,5 mV
Channel balance at 1 kHz - 1,5 dB
Channel separation at 1 kHz - 22 dB
Channel separation at 15 kHz - 15 dB
Frequency range at - 3dB - 20-22.000 Hz
Frequency response - 20-20.000 Hz + 3 / - 1 dB
Internal impedance, DC resistance - 1,3 kOhm
Internal inductance - 700 mH
Recommended load resistance - 47 kOhm
Recommended load capacitance - 150-300 pF
 
Another option, I'm not saying better, is to find a good tube integrated amp with an actual phono input to replace your Marantz- fewer components, fewer interconnects. I don't know your budget, but you could look for a Dynaco, or those offering variations of it. I'm not up on my chi-fi, but I imagine there are reasonable options there, as well
 
Not all 'true' tube phono pre's can feed a SS amp. input. The impedances may not match causing a bass rolloff. By 'true' I mean an ALL tube pre. many others are hybrids which have a SS output section. What is the input impedance of the Marantz Aux In?
 
From OP- "I am exploring a possibility of upgrading my vinyl set up with the addition of a either a Tube Phono Preamplifier or with a Tube Amplifier" (italics mine)
I was not suggesting using the phono section of a tube integrated with his current Marantz integrated- that would just be foolish. I was just supporting the second option of a tube amplifier of his premise. He brought it up so I thought it was an idea needing further thought.
Again, not saying it's a better option, but . . .
 
Not all 'true' tube phono pre's can feed a SS amp. input. The impedances may not match causing a bass rolloff. By 'true' I mean an ALL tube pre. many others are hybrids which have a SS output section. What is the input impedance of the Marantz Aux In?
I've got this from the manual of Marantz PM6004:

Input sensitivity/Input impedance

PHONO (MM) : 2.2 mV/47 kΩ/kohms
CD, TUNER, NETWORK, RECORDER : 200 mV/20 kΩ/kohms

Maximum allowable PHONO input level (1 kHz) MM : 100 mV
 
Hector-You quoyted., "CD, TUNER, NETWORK, RECORDER : 200 mV/20 kΩ/kohms". In order to drive this load well, your phono pre has to have an output impedance of 10x lower than the load, or 2 K Ohms max. Unless the phono pre has a built in impedance converter (aka buffer), the 20k load will lower the Bass considerably. I made the same mistake early on in my tube amp. experience.
 
Hector-You quoyted., "CD, TUNER, NETWORK, RECORDER : 200 mV/20 kΩ/kohms". In order to drive this load well, your phono pre has to have an output impedance of 10x lower than the load, or 2 K Ohms max. Unless the phono pre has a built in impedance converter (aka buffer), the 20k load will lower the Bass considerably. I made the same mistake early on in my tube amp. experience.
I'm considering the Parks Audio Budgie to connect to the AUX in of my Marantz PM 6004. The spec of the Budgie is as given below: Do u think this will work with my Marantz?

Parks Audio Budgie Specifications

- Tubes: Two matched 6922 Electro-Harmonix tubes (included)

- Gain: 38dB (suitable for carts with at least 5mV output)

- Input Impedance: 47K, adjustable

- Output Impedance: 6K ohm

- RIAA Accuracy: +/-0.5dB from 20Hz to 20kHz

- Distortion: less than 0.1% at 1kHz with 30mVrms input

- SNR: typically 78dBA with 5mV input

- Overload: Minimum headroom of 200mVrms at 1kH
 
I'm considering the Parks Audio Budgie to connect to the AUX in of my Marantz PM 6004. The spec of the Budgie is as given below: Do u think this will work with my Marantz?

Parks Audio Budgie Specifications

- Tubes: Two matched 6922 Electro-Harmonix tubes (included)

- Gain: 38dB (suitable for carts with at least 5mV output)

- Input Impedance: 47K, adjustable

- Output Impedance: 6K ohm

- RIAA Accuracy: +/-0.5dB from 20Hz to 20kHz

- Distortion: less than 0.1% at 1kHz with 30mVrms input

- SNR: typically 78dBA with 5mV input

- Overload: Minimum headroom of 200mVrms at 1kH
Not well enough. You have to achieve what's called Voltage Bridging. It states that the output impedance should drive at least 10 times the output z. So 6k x 10 =60 K Ohm load minimum, which is higher than 20k but not by much. You would still get some Bass rolloff. Just add an impedance buffer and your problems will be solved, plus the system will sound as good as it can. I built the Aikido cathode follower, it sounds wonderful and the distortion is below 0.1%.
 
Back
Top Bottom