anyone else running vintage Empire carts?

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Styli have to be "voiced" to give flat response with a given C (capacitance) and R (resistance, not be confused with impedance) load (from the preamp and cabling) and the amount of inductance in the cartridge body's coils. Think of all those hidden electronic parts as effectively forming a tone control that [usually] you can't see and [all too often] can't change. If different cartridge bodies have different-size coils, then the "tone control" settings are different and the cantilever and suspension have to be adjusted to hit that flat-response-curve goal.

We're fortunate that mfrs could get consistency in production; otherwise each cartridge would have to have its own unique inductance to match the idiosyncrasies of its moving system to deliver a flat response curve-- if they were lucky. If that were the case, replaceable styli would be impossible. The fact that the market demanded replaceable styli kept the mfrs on their toes-- they couldn't change a given model drastically or all the replacement styli already on dealers' shelves would sound wrong.

Inductance (again, not to be confused with impedance) is the important thing to know. We only use resistance, which we've learned to correlate with the inductance of Empires, to help identify cartridges because most people can get hold of ohmmeters but very few have inductance meters. Resistance readings are especially handy when we stumble over an outlier like your 66QE/X. By the way, this kind of error is not unique to Empire. I have a handful here from ADC, Audio-Technica, Technics and Shure.

I think Empire, in using the same body shell for all their '70s models, ran the risk of something falling into the wrong bin between the assembly line and the printing/labeling line. I doubt very much that there was a change in production, although stranger things have happened. But the solution in your case is simple-- just treat your 66 like a 2000E. You already have two other 66 clones, so there's no loss. In any case, feel free to pop'n'swap between the two families. Pick the sound you like better. Any errors from a mismatch will be confined to the high treble, so it will be a tweak rather than a night and day difference.

Our best information is that Empire began to run on empty toward the latter part of the '70s. Some employees may have had their gruntle ration reduced. This may explain some of the Empire weirdness.
 
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Our best information is that Empire began to run on empty toward the latter part of the '70s. Some employees may have had their gruntle ration reduced. This may explain some of the Empire weirdness.

As I understand it, some employees had their gruntle ration eliminated entirely. The stories coming out of Empire in the late '70s were truly frightening.

John
 
At about the same time that Empire ceased supplying gruntles to its workforce, they drastically increased the supply of whelms to a level far above that consistent with safe working conditions. This, among other things, resulted in an unacceptable increase in the temperature of the workers' heart cockles. The carnage was unimaginable.

John
 
As I understand it, some employees had their gruntle ration eliminated entirely. The stories coming out of Empire in the late '70s were truly frightening.

John

Oh, do share, John!

At about the same time that Empire ceased supplying gruntles to its workforce, they drastically increased the supply of whelms to a level far above that consistent with safe working conditions. This, among other things, resulted in an unacceptable increase in the temperature of the workers' heart cockles. The carnage was unimaginable.

John

While the past responses are decidedly tongue-in-cheek, I can attest first hand that a visit to Empire's Garden City address in the mid 1970's so my Uncle could have his 298 looked at was a very strange one. Although I was only about 11 or 12ish, even I could feel the tension and bad vibes everywhere. It was tangible. I think this would have been after Empire's management change, but before the sale to Benz.
 
So my aftermarket 2000E replacement stylus arrived today. Green, says elliptical, so I assume it is the 2000E/I. Container says "Micro-Mel". Looks like the cantilever swings a bit to the left. Have aligned the cartridge to the cantilever.
Nice big, fat sound. Very even and balanced. Tracks well, except a bit more surface noise than I'd like.
Not sure if I like it more than my favourite MM cartridges (Grado XF-3 and Prestige Green1 with 8MZ stylus, and Excel ES70EX4), but it certainly holds its own.
How much break in do these styli need?
 
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I just got in this game with a brand new 2000e/III with original styli! Been in the box for 40+ years so it seemed to take a bit of time break in....
 
I am finding the 2000E with NOS Micro-Mel stylus (green, E/I equivalent?) to be really bright. And this is through the dark, warm NAD 3020 phono preamp. But turning the NAD's treble all the way counterclockwise cuts out the excessive brightness and surface noise, and makes this cartridge/stylus combo sound very good.
 
So my aftermarket 2000E replacement stylus arrived today. Green, says elliptical, so I assume it is the 2000E/I. Container says "Micro-Mel". Looks like the cantilever swings a bit to the left. Have aligned the cartridge to the cantilever.
Nice big, fat sound. Very even and balanced. Tracks well, except a bit more surface noise than I'd like...

..How much break in do these styli need?

On average, I’ve noticed new stuff sounding better after about three records, and quite a bit nicer after ten.
Put some hours on it, then recheck tracking force. I’m setting new styli up near the upper limit first, giving ‘em a few hours there, then resetting a bit lighter. Not sure that helped, but I imagined it did.. ^_^

Still haven’t tried the Empire cartridges I’ve recently picked up. Enjoying a NOS AT13Ea that’s breaking in on my Rega and have only tested a pre-owned Pickering XV-15/750E on my Empire 598. The later sounds decent, but has some sibilance; not sure if it’s alignment or stylus wear on it. I’ll probably swap an Empire cart onto the 598 next - got a couple to test.
 
Guys, this is really long thread, and I have tried googling and the search feature. I've got a 6900t and there is a paucity of information. What stylus would you recommend? What can you tell me about it? I can say it sounds great on a Kenwood 3070. Thank you in advance.
 
You did due diligence, and the reason you found nothing but a paucity is because we haven't discussed this model until now. From vendors (who are definitely not always right, and who often copy one another's listings, thus perpetuating errors), it might be another 66 series clone, blob-on-clip style. Got a photo? Better still, can you get an ohmmeter reading from the back terminals? If this guess is correct, the stylus you want is the much-looked-for purple S912E (Pfanstiehl index 239-PDE).
 
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The Pfanstiehl x-reference shows the 6900T as using their 239-DEX stylus. This would be the metallic red S917 for the 2000X cartridge-- which is extremely difficult to find.
 
Well, shoot, it's got a gray aftermarket stylus on there and sounds nothing short of fantastic. I guess ilI' have to troll ebay.
 
The red lettering is more or less confirmation of Gretsch6120's suggestion that the 6900T is a clone of the 2000X and that the red metallic S917E is the correct stylus. Also, the stylus you have looks more like it has a clear grip. The translucent Gray, "smoke", styli were much darker. If I'm correct, the stylus is an S2000E/III or an aftermarket copy. The way to tell the real styli from the copies is that the real ones have the word "Empire" in raised lettering on the stylus guard. In the case of the S2000E/III (and also the S917E) the lettering is picked out in gold.

John
 
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Thanks for the photo! Another 2000X clone is discovered.
I agree with John that the stylus looks like a 2000E/III, which would normally sound a little bright way up top in a 2000X body. No harm in using it that way. Ya gotta go with what you can get.
 
You guys were right. Under closer inspection, the stylus guard is more translucent with gold raised letters. I don't know, maybe the brightness helps my system. I love it, what a soundstage! Thanks again. I will scour the bay and eventually get the correct stylus.
 
The better Empire styli, among which are the two we're discussing here, are extremely rare. especially the S917E. (I can't remember the last time I saw one for sale.) The worst part of all this is that the aftermarket styli for Empires are, by and large, pretty lousy. Fortunately, you have the S2000E/III to tide you over until you find the right stylus.

John
 
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