project essential three table owners you need to see this.

Plain and simple, that's just a significant engineering oversite - especially for a TT!! That's more than a nit for sure. I would expect much more from Pro-Ject. One of my multiple TTs I own is a TN-300 from Teac (not sure if it's a Hanpin manufacture or not.), but it a great little TT and sounds excellent for what I paid for it. Sure it's not high-end, or anything close, but the dust-cover doesn't hit the counter-weight and it plays as expected - for going on 2 years now.
I don't doubt that your Teac is a fine turntable. Are you still using the stock AT95E cartridge? If so, but you decide on a change, be aware that its owners manual also indicates a fairly restrictive cartridge weight range of 3.5 to 6.5 grams, a gram wider than the Essential III, but possibly still problematic with the 2M Red's 7.2 grams.
 
I don't doubt that your Teac is a fine turntable. Are you still using the stock AT95E cartridge? If so, but you decide on a change, be aware that its owners manual also indicates a fairly restrictive cartridge weight range of 3.5 to 6.5 grams, a gram wider than the Essential III, but possibly still problematic with the 2M Red's 7.2 grams.
I am using the stock AT95E. I'm going to check it out tonight for sure. I have other carts I can try.
 
That came off as sounding awful arrogant and rude.
I don't care if you are a subscriber or not, you don't have to be condescending.
Mama, always told me, "if ya don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

But it IS a TT at a specific price point.
There is nothing wrong with having a budget
- we all do. Don't take it personally - take it for what its worth.

Last turntable I bought was my Denon DP45F - with a Stanton 681EEE.
bought it new in the late 80s and it was a huge chunk of money for me at the time.
About $400 overall - in 1984 dollars!
I still own it - don't use it often now, but still works great 35+ years later.
 
I wonder how many suspecting, new owners would inquire whether a different CW is required should they change the cart! I certainly don't always read the online user manual before making a purchase to see what restrictions there might be in the use of said product. "Oh, BTW, if you change the cart the dustcover won't fit and you'll need a new CW." :) Whether P-J offered a 'more suitable' CW for a 'basic' TT or not, seems like a flawed approach to their engineering. I still don't believe the clearance tolerance should be anything that close - hence the engineering deficiency in my opinion. How did that one get past the Engineering Manager one might ask?

You can rationalize this every which way till Sunday :) but the fact is that user never read the owners manual ( thats his call ) and as a result put out disinformation. Kinda reminds me of Trump (the youtube guy.. not you) . Here's an analogy. It's like putting tires on car that are either too big or too small because the manual wasn't read.
 
Blunt yes. Condescending no. What do people expect for that money? Seriously.
I don't know about others, but for that amount of money, I certainly expect a fully working & precise turntable, that's not going to (prematurely) wear out the stylus and/or grooves. In fact, the market is flooded with all sorts of tables, around that price range or even cheaper! Both new ones & used units, from the late 70s and 80...

I understand this particular situation might have occurred because of the upgrade, owner mounting 2M Red over the lightweight & stock 5E, but still (IMO), there should have been a warning label, or at least some kind of notice about that, specifically saying not to use the heavier carts without upgrading the CW to a heavier one. Because mentioning heavier CW as "optional upgrade" is not enough if you ask me... And yes, I realize that some of you experts here might think about this ahead, plan in advance & not make the same mistake, but that's just the thing, isn't it? Pro-Ject was not meant, designed for audio professionals, aka "audiophiles". It was designed for those who wanted a fairly decent deck on the budget, without all the bells & whistles which most of the other (modern) decks all have in common - USB connectivity, built-in preamp, etc.

On the side note, I'm wondering about other table brands & models & how they would handle the same situation. For example, I happen to know that Audio Technica offers heavier CW for LP120, for the same purpose. But once again, they never specifically mentioned that you NEED to have heavier weight, in order to use heavier carts - just that it makes it better, more stable & that it tracks better. So I'm wondering if running heavier carts would result with CW hitting the cover and/or spare headshell, in the upper-right corner. My guess is that it wouldn't hit the cover, but it WOULD indeed interfere with the spare headshell (if any) because there's not much clearance between them.
 
. . . I understand this particular situation might have occurred because of the upgrade, owner mounting 2M Red over the lightweight & stock 5E, but still (IMO), there should have been a warning label, or at least some kind of notice about that, specifically saying not to use the heavier carts without upgrading the CW to a heavier one. Because mentioning heavier CW as "optional upgrade" is not enough if you ask me...
In the owner's manual, it says:

"Cartridge downforce adjustment

The counterweight (6) supplied is suitable for cartridges weighing between 3,5 - 5,5g (weight no. 00). An alternative counterweight for cartridges weighing between 6 - 9g (weight no. 01) is available as an accessory part."

I don't know how much plainer they could have made it.
 
In the owner's manual, it says:

"Cartridge downforce adjustment

The counterweight (6) supplied is suitable for cartridges weighing between 3,5 - 5,5g (weight no. 00). An alternative counterweight for cartridges weighing between 6 - 9g (weight no. 01) is available as an accessory part."

I don't know how much plainer they could have made it.
OK then. In that case my apologies - I don't have ProJect table here (and/or their manuals for that matter), but I was under the impression how they only referred to weight no. 01 as an "optional upgrade". Because let's face it, in today's consumer world "optional upgrade" usually stands for "They bought the farm, now sell them the cows".

@majick47 Why? Even those who don't consider themselves to be experts and/or audiophiles like the challenge of upgrading their carts to something better, myself included. The first thing I did to my LP120 when I bought it was replacing 95E with Shure M94E, and quite frankly I'm not planning to stop there ;) Because if you're not planning on upgrades and/or personal tweaks to your setup, then you might as well buy something like LP-60 with integrated cart and/or stylus. Or at least used P-Mount system. I specifically wanted 1/2 inch for the sake of future compatibility & all the fun with setting it up.
 
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OK then. In that case my apologies - I don't have ProJect table here (and/or their manuals for that matter),
I don't have the manuals, either, but these days most manufacturers make their manuals available online, which is where I looked up the one for the Essential III.

@majick47 Why? Even those who don't consider themselves to be experts and/or audiophiles like the challenge of upgrading their carts to something better, myself included. The first thing I did to my LP120 when I bought it was replacing 95E with Shure M94E, and quite frankly I'm not planning to stop there ;) Because if you're not planning on upgrades and/or personal tweaks to your setup, then you might as well buy something like LP-60 with integrated cart and/or stylus. Or at least used P-Mount system. I specifically wanted 1/2 inch for the sake of future compatibility & all the fun with setting it up.
My guess is that majick47 is right, that the average buyer (such as music lovers not likely to join a gear-related forum) will simply use the stock cartridge. Changing cartridges on a turntable like the Essential III is a bit fiddly due to the fixed headshell, and it's not uncommon to hear of newer hobbyists breaking the headshell wires in the process. The OM10 supplied with the Essential III is a fine cartridge, and a nice upgrade can be had by simply buying a better quality stylus from Ortofon. A friend of mine is using the OM5E body that came pre-mounted in his Rega P1, but is getting better sound now with the Stylus 20 installed (a nude rather than bonded elliptical).

Your LP120, with its removable headshell, is better equipped for the hobbyist who likes to swap cartridges now and then. If I bought an LP120, I think I would do as you have and swap out the cartridge right away. I've never cared for the AT95E, but I might buy an extra headshell and see how it works for 78's since there are after-market 78 styli that will fit that body.
 
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Pioneer makes a new table, the PL-30 that’s not made of plastic, costs less than any of the starter tables and is better in every way....

For three hundred bones you get a superior table.....

But of course who’s buying it ??

Popularity doesn’t make a cheap turntable sound better.....
 
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Pioneer makes a new table, the PL-30 that’s not made of plastic, costs less than any of the starter tables and is better in every way....

For three hundred bones you get a superior table.....

But of course who’s buying it ??

Popularity doesn’t make a cheap turntable sound better.....
Pioneer PL-30 seems like a nice table (no arguments there), but it's in fact yet another Hanpin "clone" aka "cheap knock off" :) Not saying this in a bad way, by all means. So is my LP-120, just saying - neither of the brands are what they appear to be, they're mostly just one & the same unit with different names. PL-30 appears to be the clone/similar to Audio Technica's AT-LP3 and/or Denon's DP-300F. Which are both nice tables, I was actually considering to buy LP3 myself before I ran into the black LP120, on "holiday" sale :)
 
Pioneer PL-30 seems like a nice table (no arguments there), but it's in fact yet another Hanpin "clone" aka "cheap knock off" :) Not saying this in a bad way, by all means. So is my LP-120, just saying - neither of the brands are what they appear to be, they're mostly just one & the same unit with different names. PL-30 appears to be the clone/similar to Audio Technica's AT-LP3 and/or Denon's DP-300F. Which are both nice tables, I was actually considering to buy LP3 myself before I ran into the black LP120, on "holiday" sale :)

Don’t know where your getting your info, it’s a belt drive with a DC Servo motor in a metal plinth that out classes any starter table for the same price !!! :cool:
 
My prediction was pretty much based on the many buyers of that table and similar tables that never end up here, they are as many describe themselves, casual listners, they have no interest in changing cartridges let alone modifying their table in any way. It works for them out of the box and they are satisfied with what they hear not knowing any different since it's the first time in their life they ever heard a record/turntable.
 
Pioneer PL-30 seems like a nice table (no arguments there), but it's in fact yet another Hanpin "clone" aka "cheap knock off" :) Not saying this in a bad way, by all means. So is my LP-120, just saying - neither of the brands are what they appear to be, they're mostly just one & the same unit with different names. PL-30 appears to be the clone/similar to Audio Technica's AT-LP3 and/or Denon's DP-300F. Which are both nice tables, I was actually considering to buy LP3 myself before I ran into the black LP120, on "holiday" sale :)

Sorry, but Pioneer has been making their own belt drives that are better and cheaper for decades and that can be improved to be even better. Thinking that everything that Pioneer sells is a cheap clone rip off when people are spending more for junk is actually quite funny...

If you want something good and don’t want to spend much....PIONEER and it’s been that way for decades. Social media is leading people astray that’s all I got to say. People just have to copy each other and make the same mistakes.
 
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My prediction was pretty much based on the many buyers of that table and similar tables that never end up here, they are as many describe themselves, casual listners, they have no interest in changing cartridges let alone modifying their table in any way. It works for them out of the box and they are satisfied with what they hear not knowing any different since it's the first time in their life they ever heard a record/turntable.

That’s misfortunate....

When so many of us were starting with our first turntable we had to checkout the latest greatest improvement to get all we could out of the experience. But of course every generation has those that don’t want to try...
 
I posted this just in case someone who had one of these may not have realized this was happening. To me these and those Rega tables always looked to be as cheaply made as the Hanpins, but Even they aren't as bad as this. I don't like it when no one tackes the 1200 seriously, and they tout tables like these. There is no excuse for a design flaw as bad as this to make it into final production, I'm sorry. I am not trying to offend any one who owns one either. Further more, if you may need more than one counterweight, it should come with the turntable. Also for all that money, there should be a 33/45 Rpm button at the least. in 2018 there is no excuse for a table not to have a speed button. To me thats a basic requirement
 
Don’t know where your getting your info, it’s a belt drive with a DC Servo motor in a metal plinth that out classes any starter table for the same price !!! :cool:
Denon DP-300F

Audio Technica AT-LP3


Pioneer PL-30

There had been a lot of debates on Pioneer decks, but (unfortunately) it was confirmed that even their high-end models such as PLX-1000 are indeed Hanpin units, therefore I'm pretty sure this one is also Hanpin made, as well. They might had been made out of metal, I honestly wouldn't know since I never owned one, but one way or another they /are/ assembled in China, probably the same Hanpin factory as all other tables on the market today.

Sources, VinylEngine & Reddit

My prediction was pretty much based on the many buyers of that table and similar tables that never end up here, they are as many describe themselves, casual listners, they have no interest in changing cartridges let alone modifying their table in any way. It works for them out of the box and they are satisfied with what they hear not knowing any different since it's the first time in their life they ever heard a record/turntable.
Meh, most of them are not going to bother with something as "complicated" as ProJect. Because manual tonearm is just too difficult to work out, not to mention properly balancing it, setting the correct AS & similar. So they're most likely going to buy something similar to LP-60, which is all set up right out of the box & ready to go without any tweaks. Fixed VTF, AS, integrated cart & pre-amp and (most importantly) fully automated operation, which is completely opposite of what ProJect has to offer.
 
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Denon DP-300F

Audio Technica AT-LP3


Pioneer PL-30

There had been a lot of debates on Pioneer decks, but (unfortunately) it was confirmed that even their high-end models such as PLX-1000 are indeed Hanpin units, therefore I'm pretty sure this one is also Hanpin made, as well. They might had been made out of metal, I honestly wouldn't know since I never owned one, but one way or another they /are/ assembled in China, probably the same Hanpin factory as all other tables on the market today.



Meh, most of them are not going to bother with something as "complicated" as ProJect. Because manual tonearm is just too difficult to work out, not to mention properly balancing it, setting the correct AS & similar. So they're most likely going to buy something similar to LP-60, which is all set up right out of the box & ready to go without any tweaks. Fixed VTF, AS, integrated cart & pre-amp and (most importantly) fully automated operation, which is completely opposite of what ProJect has to offer.

What, just because the PLX-1000 is a clone you have to think that everything that Pioneer makes is the same ??? Then the PL-30k is the easiest to set up, better sounding, cost the least over time to use cause it won’t break on you....all for the price of 300 bucks. It’s in a class by itself and blows away any table you have mentioned...

The DP-300F is not a good table, has speed issues with its sensor and ends up playing too fast !!!
 
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Okay, okay. I'm already way off-topic here to begin with - You're right, PL-30 is a genuine Pioneer unit, not related to others in the series.
 
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