The xDuoo has rca line out as well. Also, I thought it uses AKM chips?
Topping D50
- Thread starter E.Auer
- Start date
The unit in hand only has rca in, ergo my question about using the headphone out jack.
NOTE: The Massdrop info states that the rca jacks are used both as inputs or outputs, and they say Dual Wolfson W8740 chips. I think that's why in the middle of the nite I went for it.
I may be ok, once I try it out. I specifically wanted it for non-headphone dac use. Wish me luck!
The other unit I have is a SMSL SD-793II DAC/Amp
So far I've managed to confuse myself with this cra.....
NOTE: The Massdrop info states that the rca jacks are used both as inputs or outputs, and they say Dual Wolfson W8740 chips. I think that's why in the middle of the nite I went for it.
I may be ok, once I try it out. I specifically wanted it for non-headphone dac use. Wish me luck!
The other unit I have is a SMSL SD-793II DAC/Amp
So far I've managed to confuse myself with this cra.....
Last edited:
So not this one then? I didn't see another.
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/xduoo-ta-10-balanced-headphone-dac-amp
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/xduoo-ta-10-balanced-headphone-dac-amp
NO, I bought the TA-01
I think that's the big brother!
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/xduoo-ta-01-dac-amp
I think that's the big brother!
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/xduoo-ta-01-dac-amp
oh, I see.
the headphone out power is only 2100 mw at 32 ohm.
So my Topping D50 finally showed up today. What's even better, it powered up!For now, I connected with the included USB to power converter cable with an iphone charger. Here's a pic of it sitting on top the Raspberry Pi running Ropieee as the streamer for my Roon setup. The Bifrost Multibit is down below. I have a Y coax cable coming out of the Raspberry Pi/Allo DigiOne into both the Bifrost and the D50. I'll do some listening and A/B comparisons and report back here-what-I-hear.
WARNING: Completely SUBJECTIVE comments ahead.
OK, I've had some quality time to spend with the D50, and I can honestly say it is worth every penny of the $249 I spent for it. It is a great little DAC, lots of detail and transparency. Will it slay DAC's many times it's price? No, I don't think so. Will it offer the ability to play hi-res files when your other classic or new DAC refuses to do so? Yes. Again, I think it is very transparent and does not get in the way of the details in the music. I think it is as far as I need to go with Sabre DACs. I think where higher quality DACS earn their value is that they retain the transparency as much as possible while adding a level of "liquidity." The Metrum Hex I had for a while did that in spades, but at some expense of detail. The PSAudio Directstream was the best at keeping detail while creating that liquid (or analog) sound. What it did to trumpets and trombones was magical (to me, anyway.)
I am keeping this little DAC. I'm also moving up the chain from the Bifrost to the Yggdrasil next. Especially with the new version, I think I'll get that high detail with a touch of liquidity. And yes, I'll keep the D50 for those rare DSD files that I must play from time to time, which is not very often, if at all.
Regarding power supplies - I didn't feel the need to spend much time with this. I purchased a Jameco ReliaPro Linear (5v 1amp) power supply from Amazon for $16. Can't beat the price, so I figured that was good enough.
Last edited:
kray
HE>i
Thanks for the honest review. I totally agree with this too: "I think where higher quality DACS earn their value is that they retain the transparency as much as possible while adding a level of "liquidity."
The Soekris does this exceptionally well, even the entry level 1321 at $600. I'd love to grab a dac1541, but waiting for Soekris next round of DAC's
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
Give it some time.
DirtFarmer
Well-Known Member
I second this.
corbin
Well-Known Member
It's sounding pretty sweet now actually, as usual when critical listening with new gear, I hear the differences better on headphones, listening to well recorded acoustic music, with the moon in the 3rd phase and Mercury in retrograde. I noticed violin sounds more like an actual violin, which is a cool effect. The soundstage is different too and there is less background hiss. This is compared with my EMU 0202 USB, a circa 2007 USB soundcard thing you can hook microphones up to.
With each successive upgrade, my system is becoming less and less tolerant of poorly recorded material.
With each successive upgrade, my system is becoming less and less tolerant of poorly recorded material.
Last edited:
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
$199 for just a few more days
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/toppin...ontent=1529995907177.190415609224188982159484
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/toppin...ontent=1529995907177.190415609224188982159484
GSS61
Super Member
Massdrop delivered my Topping D50 earlier this week while I was out of town attending a business conference. I have it up and running now so here are a few first impressions...
It arrived very well packed and is quite heavy for its small size. The case is milled from a solid block of aluminum, so that makes sense. I ordered the black version and it looks great. The D50 uses the same Thesycon USB driver as the D10 which is going to be convenient for swapping them out for comparisons LOL. I'm supplying it with 5V DC using the included USB power cable and it is working perfectly fine that way for me so far. No detectable floor noise at all, very deep "black" as they say.
Like I said, it's a really great looking little unit. The small OLED display supplies useful file info and menu options when configuring the D50. It can be set to shut off about 10 seconds or so after your music file starts playing, which is a nice feature.
The preamp output can be attenuated in -0.5dB steps, which could be very useful for matching levels depending on the gear you hook this beastie up with. So... it sounded very similar to the D10 to me at first. But after listening to a variety of different types of music I'm familiar with for several hours I would say it has a touch more detail and "air" than the D10. It seems to handle sonically challenging music like hard rock and heavy metal with a bit more ease and smoothness in the upper frequencies. Crunchy guitar riffs, searing solos, cymbal crashes, high hats, etc. sound more defined and distinct with the D50. Acoustic music like traditional jazz and classical sounds very real and present, simply excellent.
It has seven digital filtering settings which I must admit I don't know much about, and couldn't immediately hear any difference between them.
Someone with more knowledge about these feel free to advise us which option is theoretically better... the factory default setting is Mode 1
I still have a lot more listening to do, but so far I think the Topping D50 is a huge value for the price point and sounds wonderful. As always, your mileage may vary...
It arrived very well packed and is quite heavy for its small size. The case is milled from a solid block of aluminum, so that makes sense. I ordered the black version and it looks great. The D50 uses the same Thesycon USB driver as the D10 which is going to be convenient for swapping them out for comparisons LOL. I'm supplying it with 5V DC using the included USB power cable and it is working perfectly fine that way for me so far. No detectable floor noise at all, very deep "black" as they say.
Like I said, it's a really great looking little unit. The small OLED display supplies useful file info and menu options when configuring the D50. It can be set to shut off about 10 seconds or so after your music file starts playing, which is a nice feature.
The preamp output can be attenuated in -0.5dB steps, which could be very useful for matching levels depending on the gear you hook this beastie up with. So... it sounded very similar to the D10 to me at first. But after listening to a variety of different types of music I'm familiar with for several hours I would say it has a touch more detail and "air" than the D10. It seems to handle sonically challenging music like hard rock and heavy metal with a bit more ease and smoothness in the upper frequencies. Crunchy guitar riffs, searing solos, cymbal crashes, high hats, etc. sound more defined and distinct with the D50. Acoustic music like traditional jazz and classical sounds very real and present, simply excellent.
It has seven digital filtering settings which I must admit I don't know much about, and couldn't immediately hear any difference between them.
Someone with more knowledge about these feel free to advise us which option is theoretically better... the factory default setting is Mode 1
I still have a lot more listening to do, but so far I think the Topping D50 is a huge value for the price point and sounds wonderful. As always, your mileage may vary...
Last edited:
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
The D50 is still priced at $199 on massdrop. Hard to find anything that compares at that price point.
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/topping-d50-dac/reviews#reviews
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/topping-d50-dac/reviews#reviews
airbus
Active Member
I'm a bit late to this one, but recently received my Topping d50, ordered through Chinese E-bay seller and delivered to the US east coast in 17 days. Given how fast the digital world is changing, I've never been big on spending a bunch of money on a DAC.
It feels like whatever was state of the art 5-6 years ago soon isn't a whole lot better than whatever becomes about $200. Because of that, I've never had anything at home that was super-expensive. My first DAC was an audio alchemy and
I moved from that to better sound cards for my computer and various HIFImediy ESS sabre based dacs. The most recent was the HIFImediy uda18 built around an ESS 9018. fwiw, the more different dacs I've heard the more I'm convinced that dacs
sound quite different from one another even when they're built around the same chips.
Maybe it's my lack of long term exposure to current high end dacs, but my impression of the Topping d50 is that it's quite a bit lusher sounding than its predecessors in my system. The detail is there and nicely integrated into the body of the music.
Dynamics/attacks are good though not bring you out of your seat quality. It's a really good match for the Volt+D and I think a great value at around $200. I'm pretty sure, it's preferable to the audioquest dragonfly, the various Schitts, and the Fiios in this price range. I haven't heard the HIfimediy 9038 based dac which is almost the same price. The one take from anyone who's actually compared the two is Wushuliu's preference for the hifimediy. I suspect the topping d50 and the hifmediy are pretty close, but I'm just not sure where things stand with hifimediy as a company right now. Their web page seems to have been pretty stagnant, a lot of their "recent" forum posts are 3 years old, their amps haven't changed much in 2 years, and their 9038 dac is virtually unreviewed other than that very negative review from Audio science, though he never seems to comment about what any of the equipment sounds like. I'm old enough to remember how transistor amps seemed to trounce tubes when it came to measurements, yet large numbers of serious listeners simply seemed to prefer the sound of tubes. That led to people asking questions about what was being measured and how. Unfortunately, with the the disappearance of brick and mortar audio stores, we're sort of stuck reading reviews, looking at specs, and guessing. Weirdest of all, there seem to be a surprising number of people who try to demonstrate audio equipment via youtube video.
It feels like whatever was state of the art 5-6 years ago soon isn't a whole lot better than whatever becomes about $200. Because of that, I've never had anything at home that was super-expensive. My first DAC was an audio alchemy and
I moved from that to better sound cards for my computer and various HIFImediy ESS sabre based dacs. The most recent was the HIFImediy uda18 built around an ESS 9018. fwiw, the more different dacs I've heard the more I'm convinced that dacs
sound quite different from one another even when they're built around the same chips.
Maybe it's my lack of long term exposure to current high end dacs, but my impression of the Topping d50 is that it's quite a bit lusher sounding than its predecessors in my system. The detail is there and nicely integrated into the body of the music.
Dynamics/attacks are good though not bring you out of your seat quality. It's a really good match for the Volt+D and I think a great value at around $200. I'm pretty sure, it's preferable to the audioquest dragonfly, the various Schitts, and the Fiios in this price range. I haven't heard the HIfimediy 9038 based dac which is almost the same price. The one take from anyone who's actually compared the two is Wushuliu's preference for the hifimediy. I suspect the topping d50 and the hifmediy are pretty close, but I'm just not sure where things stand with hifimediy as a company right now. Their web page seems to have been pretty stagnant, a lot of their "recent" forum posts are 3 years old, their amps haven't changed much in 2 years, and their 9038 dac is virtually unreviewed other than that very negative review from Audio science, though he never seems to comment about what any of the equipment sounds like. I'm old enough to remember how transistor amps seemed to trounce tubes when it came to measurements, yet large numbers of serious listeners simply seemed to prefer the sound of tubes. That led to people asking questions about what was being measured and how. Unfortunately, with the the disappearance of brick and mortar audio stores, we're sort of stuck reading reviews, looking at specs, and guessing. Weirdest of all, there seem to be a surprising number of people who try to demonstrate audio equipment via youtube video.
wushuliu
Super Member
I'm agnostic about hifimediy, but your assessment is a bit off. Their web page is not stagnant, they've been pretty active with their DAC models and I hear a new Es9038 is in the works. They also have a great SMPS selection with quick shipping in the US. Perhaps you've gotten accustomed to the recent trend of Chinese gear having high product turnover cycles. A two or three or four year old amp or dac model is nothing unusual in typical hi-fi terms.
More importantly, hifimediy is as the name implies - it's a small company started by diy'ers who were active at diyaudio. They are not a large company like Topping or SMSL etc., who are constantly promoting their products, aggressively undercutting competitors and have large manufacturing and distribution networks. Just not comparable. Their stuff seems in general, good not amazing, but whatever approach they took with their revised 9038 early this year made for a great sounding dac that stood apart. We'll see if they choose to appease the AudioScienceReview crowd by making another run of the mill Topping-like product.
As for the UDA9038Pro I have read and heard from owners with positive feedback, they're just not a strong presence on the forums where let's face it, there's a serious herd mentality when it comes to components these days, *especially* dacs.
So true--it makes no sense to convey "audiophile" quality when the music is filtered through YouTube's data compression. Or worse, someone using their phone's microphone to record the video. I'll admit I have uploaded a few rare needle drops to YouTube myself and they sound respectable, but still, not the same as the 24/96 original I based the videos on.
I agree there--measurements mean almost nothing to me anymore. It's good to know how much power an amplifier puts out, and a few other basics are telling as to the quality, but when they get down into the really nitty gritty measurements and pick things apart, it's only a matter of splitting hairs at that point. One good example is one component measuring 0.007% THD and another measuring 0.004% THD. So is one almost twice as "bad" as the other? Tell me anyone out there who could hear such a difference. And that is only one measurement out of many. In recent years I have let my ears tell me what sounds the best.
The DAC chip can make a slight difference in sound (one DAC chip model vs. another), but keep in mind that it's the analog circuitry past the DAC chip that makes a difference in the sound also. I'm sure someone could use the 9038 to make a terrible sounding DAC, while another person could spend thousands on a class A tube-driven analog output stage (like what Modwright does with the DACs they modify). There are just so many variables involved in designing a DAC.
airbus
Active Member
_____________________
Mmmm.... my sense of stagnation came from a few things. Their UDP80 amp appeared, then disappeared, then re-appeared without comment with only one new review. There were some comments about the 9038, including one asking them to respond to the Audio Science Review and several with questions for the manufacturer, and no one from hifimediy seemed to be answering them. Most of their power supplies appear to come from other manufacturers, so I didn't see that as real activity from the company. Honestly, it all made me a bit nervous. I also just wanted to try another DAC maker.
I've actually been something of a fan of hifimediy and have bought several items from them. Throughout that, they were always quite responsive. I used one of their amp modules for a couple years, but was pretty surprised to find that the Volt+ board with the tpa 3118 chip sounded a lot better than my hifimediy boards. I was also surprised that they never stepped it up from there. The uda 18 was in my system for 2 years and I'm probably going to keep using it as a headphone amp. I think Audio science was equally hard on the uda 18, but I thought it sounded very good. I still use their early USB 9023 dacs with my cell phone, chromebook or android tablet from time to time and they hold up really well as a portable solution.
So far I really like the d50, but would like to hear the UDA9038 or its successor some time. If I do, I might come to the same conclusion you did. I'm glad to hear that hifimediy is still at it.
wushuliu
Super Member
Perhaps my expectations are more tempered from doing a lot of diy. For instance instead of doing the Topping cookie cutter model of using the cheap ESS chips, hifime chose to make the cheapest ES9038Pro dac on the market. They are the only ones to have done that. The only ones. That chip alone is still about $100 retail. The ess9038q2m in the D50 is what $20? If that, since I can buy populated boards with that chip off ebay for only $45. So big profits are clearly not a motivator. And that power supply manufacturer they sell, Connex, was also a diy'er and also has a product line that has barely changed in five years. And yet people are still buying them, like myself. Not that hifime doesn't have issues, they do, and I found some of their cheaper dacs to be mediocre. But like I said, just not comparable to real commercial companies. I don't blame them for ignoring questions about ASR - that's a lose/lose proposition. They were very responsive to my emails early this year when I had questions as a customer and even sent me the revised version of the dac since I bought the inferior pre-order model, and that's what counts.
That said, the Topping D50 I auditioned did sound excellent and offers more features. For fewer features but sound quality that comes close I would recommend the $100 Sabaj DA3, which is made by the same SMSL factories.
