Simple(?) Problem with Turntable - Platter not turning

If the platter is really turning on a stationary spindle (rather than the spindle turning on a bearing), the metal on metal friction would make a terrible noise.

You say the platter "attaches" to the spindle via friction fit (which is normal, by the way). If true, then the platter cannot be spinning on the spindle....the friction would be much too great.
 
Just from tracing out the drive mechanism - the motor turns the pulley, which turns the platter, which *should* turn the spindle, which turns the gear at the bottom of the spindle, which then turns and drives the auto mechanism. Since the belt just slips around the capstan, it doesn't actually drive any gears that may be grinding.
 
If the platter is really turning on a stationary spindle (rather than the spindle turning on a bearing), the metal on metal friction would make a terrible noise.

You say the platter "attaches" to the spindle via friction fit (which is normal, by the way). If true, then the platter cannot be spinning on the spindle....the friction would be much too great.
Oh okay I see what you're saying. Interestingly, there is no grinding noise. It just spins relatively smoothly around the spindle. Although there is friction, which is why it doesn't spin completely free.
 
There is or must be a point of contact that is creating what ever friction point is the point of resistance that is not allowing the platter to turn as it should. I only would suggest if its not easy to spot or find that you use something to make it stand out. However if you dont understand what I am saying it probably would only make the issue more complex than it apparently already is.
 
From your pics, I guess that perhaps there is some sort of non-accessible bearing arrangement inside the housing, and that it is seized.
 
The spindle is seized in that spider. The fact that you can't spin it when it's removed but can spin the platter (with difficulty) when the turntable is assembled is simply due to the increased mechanical advantage gained by the increase in the radius. Of course, the possibility exists that the platter was spinning and the seized spindle wasn't.

Your only hope is to free up the spindle inside the spider and there are hazards in doing that. The spider is pot metal and would almost certainly break if you tried to drive the spindle out. If I were faced with this, I would try to "unscrew" the spindle from the spider while applying heat to the spider at the sleeved part of the spider.

Here's how I'd do it. I'd take a scrap piece of lumber and drill a hole on it substantially larger than the spindle diameter. Then I'd insert the spindle into the hole so that the three legs rest on the wood. Then screw the legs to the board.

Then, grab the spindle at the taper with vise grips and, while applying heat to the spider at the bushing, turn the spindle with the vise grips while trying to pull it out.

Good luck!
 
Well if it turns that well when in correct attitude its not right thats for certain. So is it burred or bent. Soak in liquid wrench but I think its one of the above
 
If the platter is really turning on a stationary spindle (rather than the spindle turning on a bearing), the metal on metal friction would make a terrible noise.

You say the platter "attaches" to the spindle via friction fit (which is normal, by the way). If true, then the platter cannot be spinning on the spindle....the friction would be much too great.

Not necessarily.
 
The spindle is seized in that spider. The fact that you can't spin it when it's removed but can spin the platter (with difficulty) when the turntable is assembled is simply due to the increased mechanical advantage gained by the increase in the radius. Of course, the possibility exists that the platter was spinning and the seized spindle wasn't.

Your only hope is to free up the spindle inside the spider and there are hazards in doing that. The spider is pot metal and would almost certainly break if you tried to drive the spindle out. If I were faced with this, I would try to "unscrew" the spindle from the spider while applying heat to the spider at the sleeved part of the spider.

Here's how I'd do it. I'd take a scrap piece of lumber and drill a hole on it substantially larger than the spindle diameter. Then I'd insert the spindle into the hole so that the three legs rest on the wood. Then screw the legs to the board.

Then, grab the spindle at the taper with vise grips and, while applying heat to the spider at the bushing, turn the spindle with the vise grips while trying to pull it out.

Good luck!
Hmm I think you're right regarding the issue. But, do you really think soaking it in some penetrating oil for a day or two as Nemo bit was suggesting would not work? Your method could work, however it sounds like it has a high chance of ruining the spindle.
 
There's a product called neversieze.
Kind of pricey but if you know a mechanic you only need a drop.
Might make this much simpler
 
There's a product called neversieze.
Kind of pricey but if you know a mechanic you only need a drop.
Might make this much simpler
Hmm unfortunately I just moved to a new city.. and I have a feeling that product may be more pricey than the deck itself haha
 
Hmm I think you're right regarding the issue. But, do you really think soaking it in some penetrating oil for a day or two as Nemo bit was suggesting would not work? Your method could work, however it sounds like it has a high chance of ruining the spindle.

Ruining the spider is the risk. The taper on the spindle is non-critical. Any tool marks from the vise grips can be sanded/filed smooth.

Try the penetrating oil. It won't hurt anything but I don't think it'll do much good. If I'm right, the bronze bushing in the spider is galled* from running dry for a long period of time, just the way a cars engine will seize and damage the bearings and crank shaft journals if you run it without oil.

*gall: machinery. (either of two engaging metal parts) to lose metal to the other because of heat or molecular attraction resulting from friction.
 
Ruining the spider is the risk. The taper on the spindle is non-critical. Any tool marks from the vise grips can be sanded/filed smooth.

Try the penetrating oil. It won't hurt anything but I don't think it'll do much good. If I'm right, the bronze bushing in the spider is galled* from running dry for a long period of time, just the way a cars engine will seize and damage the bearings and crank shaft journals if you run it without oil.

*gall: machinery. (either of two engaging metal parts) to lose metal to the other because of heat or molecular attraction resulting from friction.
I see what you're saying. I don't currently have the tools available to do your first suggestion, so I'll give the penetrating oil a shot. If that doesn't work, I'll look into the other method. Thank you
 
I'm curious...did the platter spin freely when you examined the turntable before buying and transporting it?
 
Well, this advice is too late for you, but when checking a belt-drive TT, take off the belt and spin the platter. It should spin easily, with no noise (put your ear close to the spindle), and slow down only gradually. You can do a quick check of the motor by connecting the belt and assuring that the motor spins steadily, with no noise. If no belt, you can check to be sure the capstan/pulley on the motor shaft turns at a good rate and makes no noise. Then check the tonearm by moving it across (above) the platter and back; it should move smoothly, with absolutely no resistance. Do this with cueing down. I can send you a pretty comprehensive guide to evaluating a used/old turntable, if you are interested.
 
Well, this advice is too late for you, but when checking a belt-drive TT, take off the belt and spin the platter. It should spin easily, with no noise (put your ear close to the spindle), and slow down only gradually. You can do a quick check of the motor by connecting the belt and assuring that the motor spins steadily, with no noise. If no belt, you can check to be sure the capstan/pulley on the motor shaft turns at a good rate and makes no noise. Then check the tonearm by moving it across (above) the platter and back; it should move smoothly, with absolutely no resistance. Do this with cueing down. I can send you a pretty comprehensive guide to evaluating a used/old turntable, if you are interested.
Thank you for the advise. I purchased a beautiful Pioneer PL-150 II a few days ago along with a pair of AR 4x's. The turntable works beautifully so I'm quite happy about that.
I have been messing around with the spindle as I've had time this week. Letting it soak submerged in penetrating oil for about 2 days did absolutely nothing. So, figuring I didn't have too much left to lose, I got out the mallet and started to gently hit the bottom of the spindle. Slowly but surely, it came out of the spider. It turns out there's no bearing in there at all. The spider just acts as a bushing against the spindle, and the cheap grease they put in there hardened over the years. So I let it soak for a few days in oil and then cleaned it all off with some steel wool. Just an hour ago I reassembled the entire unit and I'm testing it now and running into some more problems...

1. The most major one is that the left channel seems to be nonexistent; there's just no sound.
2. I'm concerned I may have bent the spindle while removing it from the spider because the whole platter is off kilter. Is there a way to adjust this? I really didn't hit it too hard, so I tend to doubt it's bent.
3. The automatic stop doesn't work. This was happening before I even disassembled it.

I would like to try to solve some of these problems, if possible. This is a nice cheap test unit for me to learn how these works and I wouldn't mind disassembling it again to figure out what's going on here.

Thank you again!
James

ps - Here's a photo album of all the pictures I've taken with annotations. https://photos.app.goo.gl/V2QcZwF8vx7GeUUm6
 
Thank you for the advise. I purchased a beautiful Pioneer PL-150 II a few days ago along with a pair of AR 4x's. The turntable works beautifully so I'm quite happy about that.
I have been messing around with the spindle as I've had time this week. Letting it soak submerged in penetrating oil for about 2 days did absolutely nothing. So, figuring I didn't have too much left to lose, I got out the mallet and started to gently hit the bottom of the spindle. Slowly but surely, it came out of the spider. It turns out there's no bearing in there at all. The spider just acts as a bushing against the spindle, and the cheap grease they put in there hardened over the years. So I let it soak for a few days in oil and then cleaned it all off with some steel wool. Just an hour ago I reassembled the entire unit and I'm testing it now and running into some more problems...

1. The most major one is that the left channel seems to be nonexistent; there's just no sound.
2. I'm concerned I may have bent the spindle while removing it from the spider because the whole platter is off kilter. Is there a way to adjust this? I really didn't hit it too hard, so I tend to doubt it's bent.
3. The automatic stop doesn't work. This was happening before I even disassembled it.

I would like to try to solve some of these problems, if possible. This is a nice cheap test unit for me to learn how these works and I wouldn't mind disassembling it again to figure out what's going on here.

Thank you again!
James

ps - Here's a photo album of all the pictures I've taken with annotations. https://photos.app.goo.gl/V2QcZwF8vx7GeUUm6

Have you tested the wiring? A simple continuity test from the pins inside the collar of the headshell mount to the rca jacks will do it. And then test the cartridge:

www.shure.com/americas/support/find-an-answer/testing-a-phono-cartridge-body

If both are ok, and assuming you have eliminated your preamp/amp as the problem, test the headshell wires.

As regards the platter...a previous poster seems to be very familiar with the spider mounted platter. I'm sure he can address this problem. In the meanwhile, are you sure the spindle is properly seated into the mounting base (spider)?

Does the tonearm lift but not return, returns but platter keeps spinning, or not lift when it gets to the run-out?

Re your new turntable...I don't know the PL-150. Is it perhaps a Pl-15D? If so, they are quite reliable and, for a "budget" table, are quite good. If the spring suspension is overly loose, you may want to replace the foam dampers that were originally in the springs (probably turned mostly to dust by now). Also, make sure the motor is well lubricated, and give some thought to replacing the oil in the bearing well. Assuming it is like the PL-12D, there will be a ball bearing upon which the spindle rotates....be careful not to lose it (altho they are certainly replaceable).

And if you need to replace the belt, try to get one from a seller who "guarantees" that it is the proper thickness. Many belts sold as the proper replacement are too thick, and will make the unit run too fast.
 
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