Have you ever regretted re-capping something? Also, can capacitors be tested without being removed?

thurber

Active Member
As I wade deeper into this hobby, I am dealing with the common question (and maybe tired to some of you here, so apologies) of when to re-cap. As a musician I know that people often tread very lightly re-capping vintage instruments like old Strats that still work well and have that vintage sound that could be lost forever with a re-cap. I don't see integrated amplifiers and speakers as an equivalent situation, though - it's hard to put into words why, but I just don't. I guess I expect clarity of whatever is being presented, even if it's the sound of Bo Diddley's recorded through a waffle cone connected to a lamp cord onto a wax cylinder. But I still have a bit of trepidation that I think is leftover from my limited experience with instruments.

So I guess my question is - has anyone here ever regretted re-capping an amp or speaker? Knowing the answer might put my mind at ease.

Also a quick general question - most tutorials I have been watching they they capacitiors that have been removed from the unit - is it possible to test them without un-soldering them?
 
I've had no regrets recapping amps nor speakers, altho I have had to do more work/learning to get best results in the case of crossover caps (mostly having to do with maintaining ESR values).

And to be clear, I'm not saying that it always (or even most of the time) provides noticeably better performance. To the extent I've seen (heard) significant improvement, it is usually in speakers. Improvements in amps, in my experience, are more subtle (if there at all). That said, I've never had an amp or receiver that sounded worse after a recap.

With amps/receivers, I look at recapping, by and large, as preventive maintenance. Improvement in sound quality is a bonus.

With older speakers, I replace electrolytics because the changes in their performance due to age can more readily impact performance (by changing crossover points).

As for testing capacitance in-circuit...the results can be/will be influenced by other components in the circuit. The correct way to do it is to lift one leg (hey, like my dog does!). Unless I am trying to troubleshoot a problem, I don't often measure a capacitor unless I'm replacing it. In other words, if I'm going to go the trouble of desoldering one leg, I may as well do both and replace it.

There are in-circuit ESR testing devices. Some/many folks with more tech knowledge than me say that ESR testing is a more reliable way to identify failing caps.
 
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I see you have a Marantz 1060. If you are looking for a relatively easy recap project, it is a good candidate. Easy to work on, and lots of great threads here that will guide you thru a straight recap or a full restoration (including replacement of noisy transistors, etc), including the option of a few mods intended to improve performance.
 
As I wade deeper into this hobby, I am dealing with the common question (and maybe tired to some of you here, so apologies) of when to re-cap. As a musician I know that people often tread very lightly re-capping vintage instruments like old Strats that still work well and have that vintage sound that could be lost forever with a re-cap. I don't see integrated amplifiers and speakers as an equivalent situation, though - it's hard to put into words why, but I just don't. I guess I expect clarity of whatever is being presented, even if it's the sound of Bo Diddley's recorded through a waffle cone connected to a lamp cord onto a wax cylinder. But I still have a bit of trepidation that I think is leftover from my limited experience with instruments.

So I guess my question is - has anyone here ever regretted re-capping an amp or speaker? Knowing the answer might put my mind at ease.

Also a quick general question - most tutorials I have been watching they they capacitiors that have been removed from the unit - is it possible to test them without un-soldering them?

A vintage Strat has 1 capacitor. Usually a ceramic cap if stock. So not relevant in a discussion about electrolytic capacitors. Discussion about changing the cap has more to do with altering the originality of a collectible instrument than anything tone-wise.
 
I see you have a Marantz 1060. If you are looking for a relatively easy recap project, it is a good candidate. Easy to work on, and lots of great threads here that will guide you thru a straight recap or a full restoration (including replacement of noisy transistors, etc), including the option of a few mods intended to improve performance.

The 1060 I actually bought re-capped. And it sounds stellar. Thank you for sharing your insight!
 
They are very good sounding little amps. I still own the one I bought in 1974, and did an extensive restoration on it last year. Before that, it powered the speakers for our bedroom audio/video system....it was left powered on for 20 years (other than the occasional electrical outage and while on vacations), and still worked like a champ.

I've recently bought two more, and will rebuild them this winter...one for a friend who needs a stereo system, and one for my daughter's boyfriend.

Sorry for the digression.
 
@spark1 Do people re-cap the Nakamichi Stasis receivers? I feel like I have never seen any advertised as re-capped. And what about the Luxman r-117? I also feel like I generally see these advertised as 'serviced' but never re-capped. I guess both of those are both just now getting to the age where a re-cap would pretty surely be needed? I am now listening to this Pioneer VSX-D1S I bought yesterday and am wondering about it, too. Surely much more moving parts than the 1060. And also just now reaching the 30-year mark.
 
Re the Stasis receivers...I gave one to my daughter for use in her apartment audi/video system. I got it as part of a package deal with some speakers I wanted.

I did the basic service work on it, but no restoration work. It's performed flawlessly for two years driving a pair of BA A60s and a powered sub. If I ever get it back, I might give it an overhaul...very nice-sounding receiver. There are some threads here about a few potential problem areas with them.
 
@spark1 I know there are companies that offer re-cap kits for the old Marantz, but for the Stasis or this Pioneer, is it a matter of going through a schematic and pulling out all the cap values or finding a list somewhere else? How would you approach one of these receivers?
 
@spark1 I know there are companies that offer re-cap kits for the old Marantz, but for the Stasis or this Pioneer, is it a matter of going through a schematic and pulling out all the cap values or finding a list somewhere else? How would you approach one of these receivers?

I always make my own cap lists. It doesn't take very long. (1/2 hour or less for most receivers). It does help to have a small inspection mirror and a flashlight to be able to see around the corner to get the cap values.

It can take a while to select the caps at Mouser /Digikey when purchasing. But not really a big deal.
 
@spark1 I know there are companies that offer re-cap kits for the old Marantz, but for the Stasis or this Pioneer, is it a matter of going through a schematic and pulling out all the cap values or finding a list somewhere else? How would you approach one of these receivers?

Service manuals often include parts info, organized by board or functiomal section of the unit. However, it is best to use this info as a guide while building your actual list from visial inspection. There are sometimes differences between the manual and the unit....go with what's installed, unless you can see that someone ahead of you has already made changes. Also check AK for threads pertaining to your unit. A dental mirror and small, bright flashlight are very handy when reading cap values and transistors.
 
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Check out liquid audio from Australia, his webpage and Youtube channel. He's an excellent tech (not all of them are) with great attention to detail and conservative philosophy on recapping.

Even if you don't send your gear to him, you'll hear him advocate a conservative, test-based approach to recapping. Shotgun recapping the entire unit is unnecessary and can change the sound for the worse.

The worst is people replacing perfectly good high quality output transistors with cheap Chinese replacements. Or replacing big filter caps.
 
Check out liquid audio from Australia, his webpage and Youtube channel. He's an excellent tech (not all of them are) with great attention to detail and conservative philosophy on recapping.

Even if you don't send your gear to him, you'll hear him advocate a conservative, test-based approach to recapping. Shotgun recapping the entire unit is unnecessary and can change the sound for the worse.

The worst is people replacing perfectly good high quality output transistors with cheap Chinese replacements. Or replacing big filter caps.

What is shotgun recapping?

There are certainly different points of view on replacing 40-50 year old electrolytics, but if they haven't degraded yet, you can be sure they will...it's the nature of the beast.

I guess you could go thru the entire unit every year or so, desoldering all the electrolytics and measuring them (assuming you have the right test gear), and replace only those that are out of spec...but sure seems like a lot of work.

Seems like it all comes down to whether or not you believe that new caps create a risk to sound quality. If so, keep the old ones until something fails. If not, replace them before you get a failure.

At minimum, for a unit I want to "preserve", I would do the power supply and protection sections (altho not necessarily including the big filter caps). No impact on sound, and good insurance against "chain reaction" failures.
 
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You can test caps in-circuit if there isn't a parallel path through one or more other caps. Same with any other component. Worst case you might have to lift one leg.

I can see how amps are different from speakers, in one important respect: failed power supply caps can smoke an amp, whereas crossover caps (which usually drift or develop high ESR but aren't involved in power supply filtering) will usually just make a speaker sound bad. It's a bit like washing your car vs. changing the oil. One of them is a real problem if you don't do it.
 
As I wade deeper into this hobby, I am dealing with the common question (and maybe tired to some of you here, so apologies) of when to re-cap. As a musician I know that people often tread very lightly re-capping vintage instruments like old Strats that still work well and have that vintage sound that could be lost forever with a re-cap. I don't see integrated amplifiers and speakers as an equivalent situation, though - it's hard to put into words why, but I just don't. I guess I expect clarity of whatever is being presented, even if it's the sound of Bo Diddley's recorded through a waffle cone connected to a lamp cord onto a wax cylinder. But I still have a bit of trepidation that I think is leftover from my limited experience with instruments.

So I guess my question is - has anyone here ever regretted re-capping an amp or speaker? Knowing the answer might put my mind at ease.

Also a quick general question - most tutorials I have been watching they they capacitiors that have been removed from the unit - is it possible to test them without un-soldering them?

A Strat, or any electric guitar, is not going to blow up if it's parts are out of spec. Electronics eventually will.

Re-capping is needed to preserve ... although some folks do enjoy making them sound "better" or "different".
 
Also a quick general question - most tutorials I have been watching they they capacitiors that have been removed from the unit - is it possible to test them without un-soldering them?
You can only test for ESR in circuit because it uses 100kHz as a test signal. But its a good first test. If it fails ESR, the cap should be replaced. Some caps. out of circuit will measure OK for value and Leakage only to fail ESR.
I recommend the Blue ESR meter. Its a cute little kit, from the USA and works well.
 
No and no.

E-cap degrade over time.
Replacing them is never a bad move.

Every custom recap I’ve done, I heard back from the owners about how good it sounds.

The proper test gear for e-caps is expensive.
E-caps are cheap.
Why bother testing them?

This^^^^

I test caps after I remove them to replace them, just to see how bad that are. If they test good, I still replace.

My in-circuit test goes like this......If it is an e-cap that is over 25 years old, the test is failed. I test them by measuring their age given that by nature they degrade with time.
 
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