Dealing with irrational behaviour

[toulcaz]

Hi

Has anyone any advice about dealing with people being very emotional when selling their equipment?

I have been in touch with a lot of sellers in the past weeks as I assemble a system and I am amazed how people are getting emotional when selling audio equipment. I have quite some experience with vintage photography equipment and vintage espresso machines. I never saw such level of irrationality as I have seen for audio equipment.

Just to share some experience, I got a guy backing out from selling a turntable because I dared sharing with him links about how to pack turntables (he was a audio tech but did not disclose it). I got sellers asking 50 to 100% above what historical sales on ebay and online forums have showed with no way to have a dialog on why their equipment will command a premium.

I usually make sure to stay extremely polite in my messages and offer to provide sources of where I get price comparisons when needed to be as constructive as possible.

So far I only manage to close on a receiver. We got quite some negotiation on price but I truly appreciated exchanging with someone reasonable and rational. For speakers and turntable, that's a different story...

I would be curious to get some insights.

Thanks

 

[ETLS]

Surely none of that happened in bartertown. If you're looking for a good turntable shipped, that's the ONLY place where I'd have faith in the seller's packing skills.

 

[Silentnet]

They don't have to sell, and what you're describing, to my mind, is less being "emotional" and more the sellers not giving you what you want. The guy who got upset about your recommendation on how to pack a turn table does seem a bit touchy, though.

 

[toulcaz]

They don't have to sell, and what you're describing, to my mind, is less being "emotional" and more the sellers not giving you what you want.

I understand your position but I am referring to people putting their equipment for sale and then having no intention to consider market data. Would someone selling a car at 50% to 100% above KBB price not look emotional?
And pls don't get me wrong, in the case of the receiver I paid a premium vs. observed historical sales because he had some maintenance/upgrades done.

 

[sixthday]

Why bother? If they don't agree with your price, then just move on. No need to waste more time which only make them less likely to give discount. Well, at least that's what I would do.

 

[mr_light]

Learning the true value of your older non-collectible audio equipment that you paid full price new for can be depressing and hard to accept. For some items I am more inclined to donate them than accept how little they are really worth. Not everyone wants to face reality. For most of my lowball offers on CL I put in subject line "Offer of $xx for (item), if not interested please ignore". I also don't contest "firm" prices.

 

[teal'c]

People are emotional, all you need to do is look at society and its problems to understand very few put rationality over emotionality.
Take yourself for instance, you're expecting people to be rational... That's simply not rational.
How do you deal with it? you expect it, and shake your head as you walk away.

 

[invaderzim]

<snip> I got sellers asking 50 to 100% of what historical sales on ebay and online forums have showed <snip>

I understand your position but I am referring to people putting their equipment for sale and then having no intention to consider market data. Would someone selling a car at 50% to 100% above KBB price not look emotional?<snip>

Ah, that makes it a bit more clear the first post was meant to read "above" not "of" after 100%

 

[toulcaz]

Ah, that makes it a bit more clear the first post was meant to read "above" not "of" after 100%

Fair point! I edited my initial post. thanks

 

[KiM3Ce]

Psychologists have recognized and documented this behavior; they call it "The Endowment Effect." I think my CD player is more valuable than yours, because it is mine. See "The Undoing Project" by Michael Lewis or "Thinking, Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman.

mr_light is right on about market pricing for this gear.

Besides, the emotional nexus between music and gear is visible all across this forum.

 

[hammr7]

The problem may be as simple as where they get their market data from. If they reference a big name audio restorer who charges a premium retail price for a completely restored item, then even if they properly evaluate their piece of gear they are likely asking much higher than your comfort level. And if they improperly evaluate their gear their price is on another planet. Not everyone lives by non-restored CL or 80% of Ebay pricing.

 

[BilboBaggins]

If their prices are unreasonable, you could always give them an offer and tell them you don’t want to lowball them, however, if they don’t sell at their asking price, you would appreciate them considering your offer. I’ve gotten a few deals that way when the price was way off base. Bottom line is, you want them to consider your offer rationally and unemotionally, so you have to be careful not to push the wrong buttons. If the price is way off base, they will likely consider your offer after getting lots of ‘lowball offers’ over and above those others in a kindly light. Just a thought...

 

[OMGCat!]

If people start getting flaky or start to have second thoughts I just back off on the deal.
I'll either let them know my offer stands as is, still cash in hand, and to give me a ring when they are ready to sell. Or I'll just forget about the whole mess and say never mind.
It sucks if it's something I wanted but I don't need anymore headaches in my life.

I also understand not wanting to take just a few dollars for something you feel is worth more.
If I can't sell something for around what I feel it's worth then one of my friends is likely getting it as a gift.

 

[audiojones]

On several occasions I've had CL sellers cancel a sale at the last minute because they became emotional about a piece of equipment. In one case it was the first receiver this guy ever had but when it broke down he decided it wasn't worth fixing. Price was OK, not great for a broken piece of mid-fi gear but I didn't argue. At the last minute when I called to let him know I was about to leave he said not to bother, he'd changed his mind and didn't want to sell it. I get it, no big deal - some things are worth more to someone than the couple of bucks they'll bring. Then there are the sellers who "just want this stuff out of here, don't use it anymore and tired of tripping over it". Those are the ones I like dealing with!

 

[tyella]

eBay research goes 2 ways. Sometimes pristine and/or refurbished gear goes for a lot. Un-restored, or funky gear goes for much less. Someone selling a funky piece at restored/pristine prices is overly optimistic. Conversely, if you're looking at a pristine unit and expecting funky prices, you might be disappointed.

If I can't sell something for around what I feel it's worth then one of my friends is likely getting it as a gift.

I have gotten MUCH joy out of giving friends the gift of good audio! Worth much more than the $40 and 2 hours of hassle a sale on Craigslist can bring.

 

[bowtie427ss]

Would someone selling a car at 50% to 100% above KBB price not look emotional?

Uninformed, maybe irrationally optimistic. Not emotional.

 

[savatage1973]

Learning the true value of your older non-collectible audio equipment that you paid full price new for can be depressing and hard to accept.

Yeah, learning the "actual current market value" of something can be quite a shock for a lot of people. I find it to be more true for more recent used gear (especially when it comes to AV gear). At least with true vintage, the gear has probably already "bottomed out" or may even be appreciating at this point. Most things purchased new at full retail anytime in the last 5-10 years is still on a major downward slide in value, and current market value is probably already at 50% (or less) of the initial purchase price.

 

[Oerets]

Talking on the phone? Or communication via messaging, text? From my experience one quick phone call can and will eliminate the need of multiple texts.
Could just be a communication breakdown.

I understand a buyer caution and need for reassurances. Buyers just have trouble sometimes balancing between rational concerns and paranoia.

On prices and letting go! The gear is theirs to sell or not.

Be wiling to loose a deal, walk away with no further thought if not feeling it. Listen to that inner voice.

 

[Drugolf]

So much information out there to try and use to determine values of things these days, but that unfortunately means it can also be confusing for sellers. Plus they are often hoping for a score just like you are thinking they might have something special on their hands. Best thing to do is tell a seller the piece is nice.

 

[MannyE]

The amount of effort I put into dealing with an emotional/irrational seller is directly proportional to how bad I want the item.

15 years ago I found a pristine...literally showroom-new 1969 Road Runner Convertible in exactly the color I wanted at a very fair price. I REALLY wanted that car so I trekked from Miami Beach to Massilon, Ohio in middle of a snowstorm taking shitty little commuter planes to put a money order into the hands of the crazy owner of this car.

Last year I found a decent looking SL 1200 that I was interested in because I have never owned one myself at what seemed like a great price, until the owner started quoting scripture. Like, A LOT of quoting. I was immediately done with that sale because my "squirrel" red flags went off. If you don't get the squirrel reference, go ahead and grab a wild squirrel by the tail one day and you'll understand what I mean.

While I would have still gone to Ohio even if the guy with the Road Runner pledged allegiance to David Koresh, I won't risk even a little crazy for a common turntable.
Now if that turntable is a GT-2000, sure, I'll have a glass of delicious KoolAid!