Super efficient small speakers?

maxhifi said:
Edit: I see E-stat beat me to saying this.. sorry for not reading the entire thread before replying! :)
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It's still a point worth making. (hence my oxymoron post, above) After all, the OP asked for "Super Efficient Small Speakers". Good job!
 
Rybeam said:
I am not technical enough to discern the exact meaning of efficiency specifications. All I know is the little B&Ws 302 I am bragging about are being ran with a high current 100 amp and seem to soak up the power. I would not expect these little guys to sound as good on a 30 watt receiver. Numbers aside I would say these little speakers are not that efficient. I do know that you can really lay the wood to them and they open up and sound great.

The reviewer I linked did suggest that "wimpy amps need not apply", in running the 302 to their potential. Is that efficient ? I do not know.
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They are rated with a sensitivity (not efficiency) of 91dB with 2.83V of input (1 watt at 8 ohms, 2 watts at 4 ohms). Interestingly, they are rated as 8 ohm speakers, but go all the way down to 3.2 ohms at their low point.

So, they are moderately sensitive and need an amp capable of doing a good job with a 4 ohm load.

Nice sounding little speakers, but of course they do not (cannot) go very low....probably around 100 Hz before you start getting increasingly steep drop-off.
 
They are said to go down to 75hz, I think they utilize the room to their advantage. I am amazed a the bass response I get. The fine detail of the bass makes them in their own way good competition to the Bozak Symphonys with the twin 12 inch woofers believe it or not. Sure they are missing the lowest octive, but it is not that noticeable, really !
I almost always run the Hollman pre-amp with the tone controls off, but I do run the 302s with the bass at 1-3 o'clock with the bass boost setting mostly on the low end of the two choices. When I decide to down size these babies may get the job, I will then explore the world of subs, something I have never owned.
Putting them out in the middle of the room and playing with spacing is interesting, after all the Bozaks do not lend themselves to such experiments. My family room is 24 X 24 so i have the space to play with them. Almost like playing with headphones, something i have never owned.
In short I would highly recommend the B&W 302s to really anyone regardless of room size, just give them some honest power. Going to dig out a Aragon 2004 I have next week and see if I can hear a difference.
 
Re the B&W 302....yes indeed, very nice speakers, especially at their price point. B&W does indeed show them as going down to 75Hz, albeit with a 3dB drop. Good candidates for pairing with a sub, or subs.
 
The Hornshoppe horns have been around for many years and are well reviewed. Although fairly small with all the internal folds they are quite heavy. I think Art Dudley still has a pair for his daily drivers. Living near the builder/seller I've spent lots of time listening to them and the bass from their 4 inch Fostex drivers is quite acceptable ( extending into the 40's per this review ). It really helps though if they are corner loaded and powered by a F1 or F2 First Watt amp. We have several owners and threads here on AK that speak very highly of them.



http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/hornshoppe/hornette.html
 
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Thanks for all the responses. Space wise probably limited to something no more than 18 inches tall. Going to research the Fostex units. They sort of fit with the small, lower power tube amp approach (I think). No room for the larger units as this is going into a 2nd bedroom/office. Space is at a premium out here.
 
There is no such thing as a very efficient small speaker. Unless you consider a 4 cu ft box with an Altec 604 g coaxial small. The latest version of the Hersey with high sensitivity might be ACCEPTABLE. We used to make 4 cu ft enclosures 2 X 2 X 1 ported with Altec 617A coax that were flat to 40 HZ placed against a wall off the floor, They were 98 db efficient, but the tweeters could only handle 30 watts RMS. So we used them in pairs per channel of 60 to 90 watt power amps very successfully , with input peak limiters. The hi end was flat to 16 KHZ with a slight roll off to 20,000 HZ. But for commercial applications who cares much above 15 kHz. For folks who wanted 30 hz reproduction we went with 6 cu ft boxes using the 619 a with the larger woofer cone. Though 4 cu ft is small for a 604 G placed against a wall or on the floor they did well to below 50 HZ and the definition was superb. A 30 watt power amp was all you ever needed. Place one in an A-7 Box some times just for grins. That will blow your mind with a 100 watt amp. . Or Place two in a Altec 817A box with a 311 horn and a 291 driver as the midrange and tri amp. 129 db at 4 ft 300 watts to the woofers, 100 watts for the midrange crossed at 700 hz and 100 watts for the HF section of the 604 used as tweeters crossed at 7 Khz. . Move over Klipschorns. The woofers were flat to 40 hz with the enclosure on the floor , if you want to reach 32 hz stack two woofer boxes on top of each other with the mid range horn between them using an wye throat and two mid drivers, Then you can reach 131+ db peaks at 4 ft.

Hifi owners have been brain washed into thinking 90 + db is efficient or at least acceptable. Back in the 60's 100 db is was seen as the normal efficiency. Of course AR came along with their speakers and started the idea the 85 db was acceptable. A lot folks frowned at me because my Bozaks were only 94 db efficient and needed ridiculous MC 275 power amp. Today a 275 is looked upon as minuscule only capable of driving few limited selection of speakers. The MC 3500 capable of 500 watt peaks was seen as unnecessary and for commercial applications only. Now days a 3500 is is just on the edge of above average. Everyone talks as if they have 300 watt plus amps. Some manufacturers subs have 2000, 4000, and 6000, watt amps built in. Crown has been making 10,000 watt amps for decades . California out lawed Plasma TV's because they consumed two much power. Wonder when big Jerry is going to outlaw amps over 100 watts per channel? Then will we return to truly efficient speakers?
 
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I don't care how efficient a given speaker is. The only thing I care about is how it (speaker) sounds to me. When I hear something I like and subsequently acquire I then buy the power necessary to drive them to the levels I want. Most of the very efficient speakers I've heard leave me severely underwhelmed. In many cases they give me instant ear fatigue and a headache.
 
I would consider the 4 inch Fostex FE126EN drivers in Frugal Horns efficient at 93 dbs whereas the Aerial Acoustics I owned and sold were anything but efficient at 84 dbs. One required massive power the other only a handful of watts.
 
I tend to agree sound quality comes first, power second. But there are consumers that choose speakers based on dynamics first. To each his own.. Fortunately today we have very low distortion speakers that are approaching 98 db 1 watt one meter. Now if we could convince JBL and Tannoy that having a 4 t o 6 db boost at 15 kHz above the 500 HZ level isn't desirable. Usually old farts like me need the boost, I don't.
 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Design Acoustics PS-10's.

About 1' cube with a down firing woofer, sensitivity is rated at 90db 1w/1m.

Inexpensive and fairly plentiful.

Probably some already in Hawaii looking for a new home, and probably some new foams as well.
 
I just read through this thread and saw mention of the Bowers & Wilkins DM302. My brother bought a pair of those when they came out and had been using them daily since, right up until about a year ago. That's when the pair of KEF Q300's I had sent to him arrived. The DM302's are now acting as robust doorstops.

:D
 
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