New to tube amps- where to start?

Always been fascinated by tube amps but never owned one. Have a pair of Mission 707’s that I have had for over 30 years since they were new, and looking to repurpose them, and considering a vintage amp/preamp. Where’s a good place to start? Tried searching the forum stuff like, “buying first tube amp” but striking out. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I’m pretty sure I am scratching the tip of the iceberg, and headed toward a slippery slope...
 
Are you looking for a preamp, power amp, or integrated?
In the latter two cases, consider buying something modern and simple with enough power for your loudspeakers. Do you know their rated sensitivity?
In the case of a preamp, I really don't have any good suggestions that won't become a project in and of themselves, sorry.

In any case, your best course of action is going to be to find some local folks with hardware that seems interesting to you and start listening.

 
Entry level and most vintage are relatively lower in power compared with modern SS, thus the ask as to how efficient are your speakers. That’s not to say you can’t rock and roll. You just need to match the speakers to the amp. I accidentally fell into vintage tube equipment and caught the bug. It’s a lovely rabbit hole you are looking into. Welcome.
 
Join a local audio club. Members will have tubes amps for you to check out. Best place to start imo.
 
also, are you thinking ready made, kit or restoring old units. Obviously there can be big $ differences between these.
 
My Missions are rated for 20-100w, 92db sensitivity. Always loved them for voice and especially for jazz. I have an old Harmon Kardon T45c turntable sitting in a box that needs to see the light of day again. (Needs a new stylus though) Thinking a sweet little integraeted tube amp would pair nicely.
 
I have never really done anything electronic other than a car stereo install or 2, so my soldering skills are marginal. I am very handy though, mostly carpentry and appliance repair around the house. Getting my hands dirty doesn’t scare me.
 
There is tons of info here on AK about the inexpensive integrated tube amps coming from China. I just looked, and they start at about $250 and go up on Amazon. Some searching here will turn up which ones are the good ones, and the modifications that can make them better for not much money or effort. I have never owned one, but it seems like a reasonably cost effective way to dip your toe into tubes. There may even be used ones available on Barder town here, or eBay. Vintage is a great way to go, but you could end up spending a lot more money if you vintage piece needs service. If you buy vintage, buy from a reputable seller here on on the web. I'd avoid eBay for vintage unless your getting a super deal and can afford to pay someone to go though it. Good luck and a word of warning, once you hear good tube sound, you will have a hard time turning back.

At 92db efficiency your speaker should work well with lower powered amps. Someone will chime in with a calculation on how loud they would play with 10 watts or whatever. You won't be able to melt off your face with volume, but you should be able to listen at reasonable levels. Good luck on your search.
 
92db are middle of the road efficient, but should get you started. The missions will be fine for a starter system. Highly efficient speakers can get you really rockin' with only10 watts. (Neighborhood of +100db).

I do only vintage so I'm not an expert in the new stuff including the new kits, but I'd be watchful of some of the cheap ones on the big auction site. I've heard that some of these small and cheap chrome covered units aren't really tube - even though they say so and try to look the part. I've read where after opening some of them up they find transistors and chips inside and the tubes on top are just a colorful decoration. Just saying to do your homework if you are going cheap and new from the internet.

Like others said, it would help if you could tell us what are your preferences? Vintage, kits, or just simply new stuff? Also would help if you had a budget in mind.

If you wanted to just get your feet wet in kits you could do one of the very cheap kits - maybe even just a tube phono pre-amp. That would help you to get your confidence up in assembly and soldering for something more challenging. While I had been able to solder most of my life it was for an occasional single joint or two. It wasn't until I fell into the vintage tube rabbit hole that I was doing regular soldering and had to build up my skills just a little. Not hard, but you just need to do some solder/de-soldering to get those skills so that you finally figure out - "Heck this aint so hard." Just really and truly beware that there are very high DC voltages in tube equipment that can seriously harm you. Read up on safety around tube equipment and if you aren't confident in working safely on them when they are energized then ask someone that is for help you when you get to that point.

Not trying to sell you on it, but for me I like the history, workmanship and challenge of restoring vintage. Many of those old units are good looking and great sounding. Also, as long as you don't really screw it up they hold their value very well and can actually appreciate. (Although I'm not doing it for the money. This is a hobby for me.) (The same might be said about new tube gear too, but I'm not an expert.)
 
For the OP's benefit (in case he or she doesn't know), 92 dB sensitivity generally means that one such loudspeaker will deliver a sound pressure level (SPL) of 92 dB at a distance of 1 meter away from the speaker when it is driven with an input voltage of 2.83 AC volts. 2.83 VAC is 1 watt into an 8 ohm load -- and the nominal impedane of the Mission 707 is apparently 8 ohms.

That said, the actual frequency dependent impedance curve of the speaker is also going to be important into guessing how well, or poorly, it is likely to mate with a vacuum tube amplifier. Why? Mostly because most vacuum tube amplifiers (for several reasons) have relatively high output impedance (i.e., relatively low "damping factor"), which means that the amplifier tends to "feel" the load more than would an amp with high DF. This can have audible consequences if the speaker is one with a complicated impedance curve.

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/mission/707.shtml
http://www.hifi-review.com/153684-mission-707.html

The sensitivity of the Mission 707 was even higher than rated. An input of 2.83 volts of pink noise in an octave band centered at 1,000 Hz produced a 94-dB SPL at a 1-meter distance. The system's impedance curve had maxima of 25 to 35 ohms at 23, 95, and 1,500 Hz, minima of 7, 6, and 5 ohms at 55, 200, and 8,000 Hz, respectively. Given this performance, the impedance probably should have been rated as 6 ohms, but the manufacturer's 8-ohm figure is not unreasonable.

That "6 ohm" figure probably explains, at least partly, the higher measured sensitivity in the test above. 2.83 VAC into a 6 ohm load is 1.33 watts, which could amount to 1.25 dB more SPL, all else being equal, from a drive of 2.83 V. :)

These are the kind of considerations responsible for, I think, much of the vaunted synergy between at least some hifi components (amps and speakers, in this case). :)

Practically speaking, what kind of vacuum tube amplifier is likely to be a good choice for these speakers? Well... hard to say.
A push-pull EL84 amplifier can provide somewhere between 10 and 15 watts (per channel). All else being equal, this would correspond to an SPL of up to about 103.8 dB (for an input of 15 watts) at a distance of 1 meter. That is loud. Note that this information says nothing about the quality of the sound, just the volume :)

I am going somewhere with this :) I would suggest that a push-pull EL84 amplifier would be a good place for the OP to begin his/her consideration of vacuum tube amplifiers, if an amp is the desired component. Best of all, EL84 amplifiers, IMO/IME, sound good. It is hard to go wrong with a push-pull EL84 amplifier (even with "modest" output transformers), again IMO/IME.

Something like this (which is an "integrated" amp in the most nominal sense of the word), e.g., might be worthy of consideration. The JoLida brand's been around for a long time (although there was some ugliness some years back between the US-based JoLida and a Chinese company using the same name). The JoLida hardware is Chinese made, but there is (still, AFAIK) a real (albeit small) US company standing behind the products.

Here are a couple of products at a couple of price points, e.g.

https://www.musicdirect.com/integrated-amp/jolida-fx10-integrated-tube-amp
https://www.musicdirect.com/integrated-amp/Jolida-Fusion-1102-Integrated-Amplifier

That latter amp is said to product 25 wpc from push-pull EL84 -- that is not impossible, but requires running a pair of EL84s pretty hard. There are "uprated" EL84 tubes (vintage type in the US known as 7189, more modern Russian equivalents known as EL84M or 6p14p-ev, Cyrillic 6П14ПEВ) that might be a better choice in such an amp than plain vanilla (modern production) Russian or Chinese EL84s.

https://www.tubedepot.com/products/sovtek-el84m-power-vacuum-tube
(one 'modern' example, e.g.)

Of course, the canonical choice in "medium-power" vacuum tube amplifiers would use a push-pull pair of 6L6 tubes or their descendents, e.g., EL34 or the "kinkless tetrodes" (KT-xx)... but such amplifiers are considerably more expensive and, to me, with few exceptions, not as soulful sounding as many EL84 or 6V6 amplifiers.

Hope these ramblings are helpful, or at least interesting :p
 
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Always been fascinated by tube amps but never owned one. Have a pair of Mission 707’s that I have had for over 30 years since they were new, and looking to repurpose them, and considering a vintage amp/preamp. Where’s a good place to start? Tried searching the forum stuff like, “buying first tube amp” but striking out. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I’m pretty sure I am scratching the tip of the iceberg, and headed toward a slippery slope...

What I did when I decided to endeavor into tubes, was keep an eye on local ads for an old beat up Magnavox console...
I found one for 50 bucks, gutted it and then just started Willy-nilly replacing like value components.
Not hard at all... with very little investment, but time.
Then, when more and more understanding crept into my head, my comfort level increased, and my eagerness for more difficult challenges grew.
Think of it as a self-taught (w/ AK ) apprenticeship...
Good fun stuff
 
All this information is fantastic! I know the basics of sensitivity rating, that impedance varies with frequency, etc. but that is about it. I did have one electrical engineering class in college (I am a structural engineer by trade), but honestly forgot most it. I have always loved vintage audio equipment, and fondly remember cranking up my brothers large Advents (he had a Sylvania receiver at the time) in the 70’s until Mom yelled to turn it down. Recently I had acquired a lot of old audio equipment, nothing what I would call truly vintage, but stuff from the 90’s and early 2000’s. So much that I was able to a couple of home theater systems, one for my son and the other for my nephew at little to no cost. Both of the have grown up in an era of iPods and earbuds. To see the look on their faces when They first heard their systems was priceless. Especially my sons which had a pair of trashed picked a pair of Polk RTi8 ‘s that my kids were mortified that I pulled out from the neighbors trash. Yeah, I am that kind of guy. But now that the basement has a lot less audio equipment and the wife is happy about that, I do want to delve into the world of tubes. As much as I would love to jump right into vintage, I realize that perhaps a less expensive place to start is either new or the kit route. Is there a good book to read up on the basics, and learn how not to kill myself? Again, thanks so much for all of the great advice!
 
Part of it depends on how much you want to spend. There are some very high quality used amps out there like the PrimaLuna. They are well built, and they appear to retain their resale value. One easy option would be to locate a good used version - there are several places like Audiogon or US Audio Mart where audiophiles buy and sell equipment. The good part about this approach is that you will get an opportunity to use a good example of a tube amp. If you don't like it, then with a little effort, and hopefully loss of little money, you can find a new home for it.

I took that approach, and got a Primaluna 5 power amp with about 35 watts. Loved it. Then I decided to go with a SET amp, and sold the Primaluna for pretty much what I paid 3 years later. A really positive experience, and a good way to get started. Getting an old amp with problems just would have not been the same start. For me, tubes are great compared to SS. Position yourself for success, and have fun with it !!

regards-- Roger
 
I sent you a conversation, there is a meetup coming soon and you will find tube gear there to listen to I'm sure. Usually some for sale as well. Just not sure of your location, looks like Philly area.

BillWojo
 
I'm going to add my 2 cents here. When shopping for modern tube equipment, make certain to examine the specs carefully. I've seen a certain amount of waffling about in the manner some tube amplifiers are rated; one manufacturer falling into the high end category with prices to match. (Not Mc) For example, output stated at 1,000 Hz only, with distortion @ 1%, at impedance of 16 ohm, less for 8 ohm- at the stated output rating with no 4 ohm provided. As a general rule, tube equipment and low impedance speakers are not a good match.

Unless prepared to spend some serious $$$, solid state is the way to go - especially if the speakers under 8 ohm, particularly since impedance can dip significantly below the "nominal" impedance rating at certain frequencies.
 
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Been reading thru the How a Tube Amp works thread. Very helpful!
It sounds like you really want to try tubes. There are many choices so the first thing is to make a budget. Also your budget should consider that tubes wear out and replacing the power tubes are an occasional expense like buying tires for your car. You no doubt noticed that the Chifi equipment is enticing with their flashy looks and low prices. But many of these brands are not vetted and can have hidden problems. This can be a real nightmare to the tube nubie.
Another consideration is resale value. In this aspect vintage equipment from the "golden era of tubes" will always be in high demand and many pieces have actually appreciated in value. Even currently made McIntosh do not enjoy the same resale value that the vintage units have.
So , if you are a music lover, and are not entirely happy with your SS gear, a tube unit may make you realize that there was something missing in that type of amp. To me a properly performing tube amp can have a profound impact on your listening experience which can turn into a lifelong passion.
 
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